AtS on TNT Discussion Thread

[Dannyblue]

Despite all the good points you made (I also wanted to kick someone for not following up on the "You've got some power of your own!" thing) I still love this episode.

Someone at ME (maybe even JW) admitted that they like to throw all kinds of intriguing tidbits into the episodes, hints and possibilities and random stuff they might or might not follow up on later somewhere down the line. Then, if they do follow up on that stuff eventually, it looks like complex forshadowing, like they have this grand scheme for the series overall when, in fact, they're winging it a lot of the time. It also means that a lot of the stuff they plant doesn't always get followed up on.

And, about Billy, I think he was probably created to be this Big Bad evil somewhere down the line. That's just the vibe I got. But, as we know, a new story idea can change whatever the writers/producers intended. So Big Bad Billy became sort of mundane, but still evil, Billy, and the Monster of the Week in one of my favorite AtS eps.

[LaLa247]

Tonight was ToGoM.

Y'know, this is the first time that I sat through this ep giving it my complete attention and I see how damn extreme this ep is. The scene with the gunplay made me cringe, and the part where Gunn snapped nearly sent shivers down my spine- it was a good Gunn-centric ep, and it really went into who Gunn was and what his whole "deal" was regarding who he considers his friends and family.

[Syn]

I love, love, love TOGOM. Excellent Gunn episode--though really, I love all the Gunn episodes. Yes, even Double or Nothing. Shaddup. All the elements were there, everyone was on. We got Angel in leather pants, a chilling performance from Lorne and adorable/kickass Fred. Plus, the Furies. Mmm...Angel. tee-hee.

The episode still comes off as intense even after watching it so many times and that's definitely a good thing. The only thing that still doesn't sit well with me is Gunn telling Angel that they weren't friends. Hello? Cuz that big manly hug in Heartthrob meant nothing, I see...

But that's a minor quibble and I'll shut up now.

[LaLa247]

Originally posted by Syn
The only thing that still doesn't sit well with me is Gunn telling Angel that they weren't friends. Hello? Cuz that big manly hug in Heartthrob meant nothing, I see...

Y'know, I always thought his abrupt "we're not friends" was just a reaction to the insecurity/friendship/loyalty/personal issues he was going through at that time; I think Angel knew Gunn considered him to be a friend...he was just being considerate of Gunn's space.

[tojoson]

awakening:

conner told angel that it's angel that cordy loves,

angel says (to cordy) ' there's no place i'd rather be--than here with you,

the look of horror on angel's face when he says 'buffy' while angelus is coming out,

all this in angel's dream of his perfect fantasy.

oh sure, angel only wants buffy'

Originally posted by LaLa247
Y'know, I always thought his abrupt "we're not friends" was just a reaction to the insecurity/friendship/loyalty/personal issues he was going through at that time;

I think it's also an initiation rite of some sort. Join AI but remember, Angel is dangerous, do not tap on the glass, take his hair gel, and always be prepared to stake his ass.

Cordy passed that test in "Somnunbolist," Wes did it in the "Evil Seed" one where the demon taunted Wes, and now it's Gunn's turn.

[LaLa247]

See? What Kar said.

"Awakening".

I have resisted watching this episode for a very, very long time and finally sat through it last night. And I enjoyed it as a whole, it was a clever way to get Angel to lose his soul and was actually realistic (There was no way he was gonna lose his soul by just sleeping with some one). My thoughts:

- Really, was Not!Cordelia's speech enough to get Angel to do the spell? Was he that persuaded by that, because that speech was kind of weak, man. Angel's a dolt.

- Since when was Angelus and Angel separate people? This is my biggest problem....

- "...you might have to stake me." "Okay." "-IF..." -- loved this interaction between Angel and Connor! Boreanaz and Vinnie did a great job with dad's awkwardness to son's uncomfortable stance at his father telling him the three words. It really looked like Angel's words affected Connor...at least for five seconds.

- I have come to the conclusion that Angel has/had a crush on Gunn. Yes, Gunn- he's joined the masses. Welcome, Angel, to the Gunn Lovers Club. I'm just sayin' Gunn in Fake!World was all cutesy and smiling, and the "Oooh- can I play with it?" was just something incredibly cute for Gunn to say. So, while Angel obviously thinks highly of Gunn, he has a crush on him.

- It was kinda obvious the people in Fake!World was Angel's perception of them, and it was very favorable. I was kinda surprised to see how highly he considers everyone.

- He also thinks highly of his kid. Yes, he knows his son whines and is bitchy and is...well, like HIM- yet he wants the kid to fight at his side and so on.

- Apparently, Angel thinks he's done NOTHING wrong in the last two years, 'cause I didn't see him apologize for shit in that ep. Everyone was sorry, and he gladly accepted. Maybe when he got his soul back, he should've gotten a clue. Ass.

- I liked the love scene. It was awkward and real and pretty damn well done for a man and a woman who was about five months preggers. Hey, I didn't even hear the "Buffy" at the end- please tell me they muted that.

- I'm gonna start calling Angel "Three-Thrust-Angel" Hehehehehehehehe.

- Finally, when Angelus "awoke", was he looking at Not!Cordelia and laughing evilly, or the jar holding his soul?

[DamnSkippy]

I did find it funny that after all was resolved, all he had to do to lose his soul was just get inside Cordy to lose it. He had to sleep on it with Buffy.

[tojoson]

carpe noctem:

did you know that the guy playing 'marcus' is in reality ron howard's father.

and in the btvs season 1 episode 'teacher's pet' with the preying mantis, the old teacher who the mantis had stolen her name, that was ron howard's mother.

[Dannyblue]

"Carpe Noctem". Still hate this episode. Hate it! Why I keep watching it, I'll never know. There are some funny parts to it. But the storyline...eh. It's like they thought, "Let's put a dirty old man in Angel's body," and didn't bother to develop the story beyond that.

For a long time after CN aired, I kept picking on it for its badness. I meade sure everyone knew I didn't like it. Deciding I'd made my point, and I was getting kind of obsessed with tearing the ep apart, I made myself stop insulting the darned thing. But, after watching some of it again, I realized it deserved to be picked on.

And, about TOGOM, I always liked it, and was surprised by the kind of lukewarm reaction it got here and at other boards. Great episode. Riveting. I even like the part where they went artsy and had Geo, the demon, and Lorne all talking at the same time. The demon's monologue creeped me out.

Also, I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I don't know who did the wardrobe for TOGOM, but I wish they'd stuck with that style. Both Angel and Cordy both looked sexy and great.

[LaLa247]

Originally posted by Dannyblue

And, about TOGOM, I always liked it, and was surprised by the kind of lukewarm reaction it got here and at other boards. Great episode. Riveting.

Was there really that bad of a reaction? I don't remember, but then again, I didn't really remember the ep to begin with.

Also, I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I don't know who did the wardrobe for TOGOM, but I wish they'd stuck with that style. Both Angel and Cordy both looked sexy and great.

I would add Wes, Fred, and Gunn to that list. Wes looked sexy, Fred looked demure (I think is the word...), and Gunn looked like GUNN. Great wardrobing for that episode.

[LaLa247]

*blip*

Tonight was "Fredless". Random thoughts-

- So Fred was the first person to notice the C/Aness, huh? She looked all sad and disappointed during the patching up scene. I felt bad for her, although it was kinda cool how Fred became the "eyes" of the audience.

- Gunn was so cute in this episode! When Cordy hurt her knee and he thought she had a vision? "Yes! Yes! Yes!" LOL

- The mock up of B/A by Wes and Cordy still makes me laugh. The way Wes deepens his voice and Cordy's chin trembling kills me. But it's kinda obvious how the angle of AtS was NOT B/A-centered like it is now, considering how everyone was convinced that B/A was over...how things change over a year.

- I love Fred's parents.

- Very good acting by Amy Acker in the train station. I teared up, dammit.

- Look at the short skirt on Cordy! No wonder she put that jacket on halfway through.

- In all honesty, I love crazy!Fred, but I thought the attachment the FG had to her in "Fredless" was very unrealistic. They had known her for an extremely short time and were just getting to know her- so why were they acting like it was a big tragedy? It just seemed like something that was taken out of a Mary Sue story, but I digress.

[LaLa247]

*blip*

Alone, all alone...

"Billy"!

'Bout ten minutes in and the C/Aness is in full swing.

This is, without a doubt, one of my favorite AtS episodes.

ETA: I love Gunn. He looks so scared that he's gonna hurt Fred- this was probably when I was hoping for G/F (Although inside I was still rooting a bit for C/G). Honestly, JAR is one of the most underrated actors, and he never gets acclaim for it (Like AD, NB, ASH, etc).

Also, Angel never laid a hand on Cordelia ever, right (With the exception of him choking Not!Cordelia in Inside Out)? While on that subject- check out Cordelia with her feminist self! She was a total B.I.T.C.H and it rocked (Who wrote this ep, by the way?).

C/A, C/A, C/A-

[tojoson]

angel: 'don't stiffin up'
cordy: eyebrows raising), 'yah, you eather'

love it


CC has some pretty well developed upper arms and shoulders, must be her rock climbing

[QueenC]

Originally posted by LaLa247
"Billy"!
(Who wrote this ep, by the way?).

If I remember correctly, it was a combined Jeff Bell/Tim Minear effort.

Lori