AtS on TNT Discussion Thread - Page 25

SKauble · 02-05-2005, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linda

The same Angel that was ready to jump into a portal to find Cordy, not knowing or caring what was on the other side, is now handing both the woman he loves & his son over to them. This was such a ridiculous & outlandish plot twist that only the B/A'ers would like it, because now they can get rid of Cordy, not have to worry that Angel & Cordy would get together and keep their pathetic B/A love dreams crap intact.

It's funny, because I always thought You're Welcome was kind of the death knell of B/A. Even the silliness of The Girl In Question, seemed a way to placate B/Aers and never any serious indications of feelings.

Angel was so completely lost at W&H that even he knew it. He was so hopeless at the beginning of YW. And where's Buffy? Europe. All of their "star-crossed" romance and she couldn't get on a plane to help Angel out? Angel was there for her when things got bad, even if she didn't want his help he always offered. But when she thinks he's sinking into darkness what does she do? Oh, that's right, gets a new boyfriend and hangs out in nightclubs.

Cordy, on the other hand says at the end of YW that TPTB owed her a favor. Did she use that favor to get some kind of new life, maybe get her TV show back? No, she used it to get Angel back on track. Not what I would have used my favor for, but hey! Love makes you do the wacky.

I had a lot of problems with the last 2 seasons of Angel. But when the show ended the one thing I did feel better about was that C/A's relationship was on a completely different level that B/A's. One was mature and entailled sacrifice and one was about going when things got tough.

Of course I still think the C/Aers got gipped, but in some ways I think it was equally bad, if not worse for the B/Aers, because with SMG unwiling to appear in the last season I felt that B/A was totally invaidated by the events occurrring.

Also, ITA with you about Angel joining W&H. It was such a stupid move that it just almost defies discription. Even if it was remotely plausible, why on earth would they want to make there hero seem like such a moron?

~Sarah~

brownsbros3 · 02-05-2005, 09:57 PM

I didn't even think about that (You're Welcome being on Valentine's Day) As for season five, the premise was just really far-fetched. Most of the people that liked it are going to like it simply because Whedon's name is attached to it. My biggest problem with the last two seasons was with the lack of continuity. Facts would only be remembered when convenient. Storylines would be added, and then mysteriously dropped with little to no explanation. Moments that should have been really big they just blew off. I thought season four was an improvement over season five. There were 11 episodes in season five that I liked, compared to only 8 episodes for season four. This is compared with season three in which I liked 21 episodes. (The only one I didn't like was Loyalty.) The only reason I kept watching was because of the cast.

skippcomet · 02-06-2005, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownsbros3

...My biggest problem with the last two seasons was with the lack of continuity. Facts would only be remembered when convenient. Storylines would be added, and then mysteriously dropped with little to no explanation. Moments that should have been really big they just blew off...

Well, remember...Whedon said in the commentary for Chosen that he will ignore consistency in favor of the "message" he's trying to send. And elsewhere, hasn't he said about his writing and his characters that nothing's more important than the "emotional" truth of what his characters are going through, or words to that effect? I have little doubt that Joss knows what he wants to do, and how he wants the audience to react. It's just that, without that regard for logic or consistency or continuity, I don't think he cares whether or not how he gets there ends up making sense to the audience, or if the audience finds other things interesting.

brownsbros3 · 02-08-2005, 04:23 PM

In the first three seasons, (aka the Greenwalt years) they weren't two bad about it. We have threads over here on "Inconsistencies," and "Unresolved Storylines." The majority of entries in those categories came from the later two seasons rather than the first three.

ferr89 · 02-14-2005, 08:26 AM

OK, sitting here sniffling and wiping stray tears away.

Just finished watching YW and boy, it hurt. There was soooooooooooooo much potential between Angel and Cordy, and I'm so sad that it never came to fruition. (On screen that is. In my mind is a totally different thing )

I'm relatively new to the fandom, and when I saw the final ep for the first time, I totally expected Cordy to show up and be with her guys stand or fall, but just to be there at the end.

I know her "kiss" set Angel's plans in motion, and without her help things may have been much worse, but come on there were sooooo many ways to have kept her character alive and made it believable. Seems to me they didn't want to even try.

I mean Angel suffered 200+ years with the guilt of things he did, and I think having the chance to see Cordy try and reconcile her evil-doings (as innocent of them as she was) would have been wonderful to see.

I guess that's why I turn to fanfic. IMO the viewers seem to have more of an imagination than the creators did.

Sorry, had to vent.

brownsbros3 · 02-14-2005, 09:05 AM

I know what you mean. It's a shame that things couldn't have worked out to where they could have kept her on for at least the rest of season five. All you have to do is look at the episodes with Charisma vs. without her, and the ones with her are so much better.

I remember reading different accounts of the filming of that final scene between David and Charisma, and just the emotions they went through. It seems like those who were on the set, knew they were watching something special.

Charisma said in an interview after the episode aired in the U.S. that she and David cried together for hours over that last scene.

David Fury (who wrote and directed the episode) proclaimed himself a C/A shipper after that working on that scene with them.

Mercedes McNab said that even though she wasn't in the scene, that she just stood back and watched.

ferr89 · 02-14-2005, 09:25 AM

Quote:

I remember reading different accounts of the filming of that final scene between David and Charisma, and just the emotions they went through. It seems like those who were on the set, knew they were watching something special.

I can imagine so. I would love to read those reactions.

Quote:

Charisma said in an interview after the episode aired in the U.S. that she and David cried together for hours over that last scene.

I'm getting misty again just thinking about it. Now if she and David both cried, maybe they knew that their characters were more to each other, and if they saw it, and the crew must have seen it, where was Joss' head????? (Rhetorical I guess, you don't need to answer, I can guess where his head was LOL)

Quote:

David Fury (who wrote and directed the episode) proclaimed himself a C/A shipper after that working on that scene with them.

That's great, but sadly a bit too late.

I've read bits and pieces about the supposed reasons they got Charisma off the show, but are there comments from the other actors about her leaving anywhere? I mean let's face it, in the setting of Angel, ANYTHING was possible. There was no corner that anyone couldn't be written OUT of if they tried.

I'm sure this has been argued to infinity, and I'm sorry if I'm rehashing / recycling stuff that may have been laid to rest, but I'm soo curious as to how things went down at the time.

Thanks for listening.

Jenn

brownsbros3 · 02-14-2005, 09:59 PM

I'll send you a private message on the issue.

ferr89 · 02-16-2005, 10:50 AM

Hi Doug.

I got it. Thank you for all the great info!!

Jenn

brownsbros3 · 02-21-2005, 01:10 PM

You're welcome. Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, but I've had some family situations I've been dealing with over the past week, which hasn't left me with much free time at all lately.

MsT05 · 03-02-2005, 04:46 PM

I am watching the ep, Peace Out. I do not know why I can never tear myself away from the tv when I know how Season 4 and 5 drive me nuts because of the storyline and what the writers did to Cordy. One thing that strikes me is I like Connor much more in this ep. I think it when I finally understood more of what was driving the poor boy. Breaking my heart a bit. Jasmine was still a crappy and absurd idea though.

Also I watched an ep of BtVS earlier, the one where Angel loses his soul. DB's acting was so much better on AtS. but I was reminded how much I adored Angelus in all his evil glory. Not just all talk like Angelus was when he made an appearance in Season 4 of AtS. And the Scooby gang was still...the Scooby gang and not pod people.

Lastly, what is up with the commercial placement? Seems awkward.

brownsbros3 · 03-02-2005, 09:05 PM

The episodes were re-edited for TNT. They have different views on commercial placement than the WB Network. They do it for ER and NYPD Blue re-runs also.

AngelHair · 03-04-2005, 01:29 AM

The commercial placement may be awkward, but you don't lose content with the edits, right? I mean, Angel also airs in syndication down here on the local WB affiliate (Sat. and Sun. nights), and stuff gets left out. Before I got the DVDs, I was recording season four from TNT. If I missed an ep, I would record from the WB -- until I realized that scenes and partial scenes were missing. After that, I just waited for the episode to show up on TNT again.

DamnSkippy · 03-04-2005, 07:45 AM

Yes, you do lose content. They show more commercials on TNT than on the standard networks. I don't know exactly how much time they have to cut out, but it's probably a couple of minutes. If you caught the end of "Awakening" they basically cut out the whole love scene. It went from C/A starting to kiss to Angel gasping and being Angelus. It was ridiculous.

v120176 · 03-04-2005, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamnSkippy

Yes, you do lose content. They show more commercials on TNT than on the standard networks. I don't know exactly how much time they have to cut out, but it's probably a couple of minutes. If you caught the end of "Awakening" they basically cut out the whole love scene. It went from C/A starting to kiss to Angel gasping and being Angelus. It was ridiculous.

Well...... at least there wasn't any "Buffy" thing, poor B/Aers.......

02-14-2005, 08:26 AM	#365
ferr89 Fanfic Addict Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 76	OK, sitting here sniffling and wiping stray tears away. Just finished watching YW and boy, it hurt. There was soooooooooooooo much potential between Angel and Cordy, and I'm so sad that it never came to fruition. (On screen that is. In my mind is a totally different thing ) I'm relatively new to the fandom, and when I saw the final ep for the first time, I totally expected Cordy to show up and be with her guys stand or fall, but just to be there at the end. I know her "kiss" set Angel's plans in motion, and without her help things may have been much worse, but come on there were sooooo many ways to have kept her character alive and made it believable. Seems to me they didn't want to even try. I mean Angel suffered 200+ years with the guilt of things he did, and I think having the chance to see Cordy try and reconcile her evil-doings (as innocent of them as she was) would have been wonderful to see. I guess that's why I turn to fanfic. IMO the viewers seem to have more of an imagination than the creators did. Sorry, had to vent. __________________ "A true friend is someone who thinks that you are a good egg even though he knows that you are slightly cracked." ~ Bernard Meltzer ~

02-16-2005, 10:50 AM	#369
ferr89 Fanfic Addict Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 76	Hi Doug. I got it. Thank you for all the great info!! Jenn __________________ "A true friend is someone who thinks that you are a good egg even though he knows that you are slightly cracked." ~ Bernard Meltzer ~

03-02-2005, 04:46 PM	#371
MsT05 Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 55	I am watching the ep, Peace Out. I do not know why I can never tear myself away from the tv when I know how Season 4 and 5 drive me nuts because of the storyline and what the writers did to Cordy. One thing that strikes me is I like Connor much more in this ep. I think it when I finally understood more of what was driving the poor boy. Breaking my heart a bit. Jasmine was still a crappy and absurd idea though. Also I watched an ep of BtVS earlier, the one where Angel loses his soul. DB's acting was so much better on AtS. but I was reminded how much I adored Angelus in all his evil glory. Not just all talk like Angelus was when he made an appearance in Season 4 of AtS. And the Scooby gang was still...the Scooby gang and not pod people. Lastly, what is up with the commercial placement? Seems awkward. Last edited by MsT05; 03-02-2005 at 04:49 PM.

03-04-2005, 01:29 AM	#373
AngelHair Sucker for vampire mojo Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 7	The commercial placement may be awkward, but you don't lose content with the edits, right? I mean, Angel also airs in syndication down here on the local WB affiliate (Sat. and Sun. nights), and stuff gets left out. Before I got the DVDs, I was recording season four from TNT. If I missed an ep, I would record from the WB -- until I realized that scenes and partial scenes were missing. After that, I just waited for the episode to show up on TNT again. __________________ Sonja *"You know how parties are: you're always afraid no one will suck the energy out of the room like a giant black hole of boring despair -- but there you were, in the clinch." ~ Cordelia ("She")*

03-04-2005, 07:45 AM	#374
DamnSkippy Join Date: May 2003 Location: Akron, OH Posts: 4,895	Yes, you do lose content. They show more commercials on TNT than on the standard networks. I don't know exactly how much time they have to cut out, but it's probably a couple of minutes. If you caught the end of "Awakening" they basically cut out the whole love scene. It went from C/A starting to kiss to Angel gasping and being Angelus. It was ridiculous. __________________ Deb ~ Bark/Angel Chipper/Shipper C/A Stillness - Non-Animated Icon Challenge Community devoted to Cordy and Angel David Stillness - Non-animated Icon Challenge Community for David Boreanaz Bones Hush - Textless Icon Challenge Community for the show Bones Nonna Rosina Productions

02-05-2005, 09:57 PM	#362
brownsbros3 Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,145	I didn't even think about that (You're Welcome being on Valentine's Day) As for season five, the premise was just really far-fetched. Most of the people that liked it are going to like it simply because Whedon's name is attached to it. My biggest problem with the last two seasons was with the lack of continuity. Facts would only be remembered when convenient. Storylines would be added, and then mysteriously dropped with little to no explanation. Moments that should have been really big they just blew off. I thought season four was an improvement over season five. There were 11 episodes in season five that I liked, compared to only 8 episodes for season four. This is compared with season three in which I liked 21 episodes. (The only one I didn't like was Loyalty.) The only reason I kept watching was because of the cast.

02-08-2005, 04:23 PM	#364
brownsbros3 Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,145	In the first three seasons, (aka the Greenwalt years) they weren't two bad about it. We have threads over here on "Inconsistencies," and "Unresolved Storylines." The majority of entries in those categories came from the later two seasons rather than the first three.

02-14-2005, 09:05 AM	#366
brownsbros3 Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,145	I know what you mean. It's a shame that things couldn't have worked out to where they could have kept her on for at least the rest of season five. All you have to do is look at the episodes with Charisma vs. without her, and the ones with her are so much better. I remember reading different accounts of the filming of that final scene between David and Charisma, and just the emotions they went through. It seems like those who were on the set, knew they were watching something special. Charisma said in an interview after the episode aired in the U.S. that she and David cried together for hours over that last scene. David Fury (who wrote and directed the episode) proclaimed himself a C/A shipper after that working on that scene with them. Mercedes McNab said that even though she wasn't in the scene, that she just stood back and watched.

02-14-2005, 09:59 PM	#368
brownsbros3 Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,145	I'll send you a private message on the issue.

02-21-2005, 01:10 PM	#370
brownsbros3 Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,145	You're welcome. Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, but I've had some family situations I've been dealing with over the past week, which hasn't left me with much free time at all lately.

03-02-2005, 09:05 PM	#372
brownsbros3 Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,145	The episodes were re-edited for TNT. They have different views on commercial placement than the WB Network. They do it for ER and NYPD Blue re-runs also.

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