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Old 07-21-2007, 08:10 AM   #1
SamIAm
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Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Discussion

Per Platy's suggestion. 'Cause what Platy said, right?

Spoilers abound, of course.
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Old 07-21-2007, 10:48 AM   #2
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Finished! I've had the UK covered for screams of anguish and loud giggles...

I managed to avoid all spoilers - actually, it's been pretty easy to over here in the UK, the media have been very good about it all.

But since I was helping out at the midnight opening in one of our stores last night, I did have to address the queue and tell them that if any of them skipped to the end and dared breathe a word, that I would confiscate their copy and push them out of the back door.

I even managed to stop myself flicking to the end to see what happened. Though I did have a flick through at some of the chapter headings - but not all.

I don't want to say too much just yet in case anyone stumbles here by accident -

but dammit people - I'm grieving for an owl here!
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Old 07-21-2007, 11:10 AM   #3
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I've been pretty spoiler-free (I tried hard, which included not doing the pool because I was stearing clear of the internet. Well, mostly.), and dude.

Yeah, I haven't sleep. A more coherent post later, but... Fred?

And Snape was all about the Lily, I guess. Here I was thinking that was random fandom at it with that theory.
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Old 07-21-2007, 11:32 AM   #4
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I gotta tell ya - I'm fine with Fred biting it. I dont know why - maybe because I know he's probably at Kings Cross Station cracking jokes about it, I don't know.

But I'm seriously traumatised over Hedwig - it was such an undignified way for her to go. She never harmed anyone and to be hit by Avada Kedavra and then blow up in a motorbike sidecar several miles above England - and so early on in the book... I...

I got to that point and in my head something just said "This is going to be a rough ride"

I'm so glad about all the little cameos of past characters and mentions to the previous books as well. It was lovely - though I was convinced we would see the Mirror of Erised again.

In an abstract way we did finally get an answer to what Dumbledore sees in the mirror. And I gasped loudly when it was revealed what little Albus' middle name was - and glad that Harry wasn't bitter and recognised Snape for what he did.

I also loved the Lily/Snape/Petunia back story. And too much other stuff to mention.
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Old 07-21-2007, 04:08 PM   #5
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I'm not reading any posts because I haven't read the book yet. I just picked it up 1 hour ago and I can't seem to bring myself to start the book. I think I'm scared to see it end. How wierd is that?
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Old 07-22-2007, 01:15 AM   #6
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I'm not reading any posts because I haven't read the book yet. I just picked it up 1 hour ago and I can't seem to bring myself to start the book. I think I'm scared to see it end. How wierd is that?
Not weird at all! I just finished it and without giving anything away I can say that some was what I expected (Snape; Dumbeldore; the Malfoy's; most of the deaths) and some that I did not (precisely how the final battle was played out - I was a wee bit disappointed - seemed a bit anti-climatic; or am I the only one?). I thought the actual ending was a bit cheesy but then this is written for adolescent readers and everything was tied nicely with a bow so I shan't complain.

And I must say -- yeah Prof. McGonagall! She is such the woman! LOL.

Last night I said I was going to skip to the end and read so I wouldn't be spolied today at this big family social function I had to go to but I couldn't do it. I read it front to back because I am such a follower of "book rules." It was a nice attempt at bravado, however.

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Old 07-22-2007, 05:42 AM   #7
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Fred is my favourite non-Ron Weasley (yes I had a favourite twin), so that hurt. Not as much as when I thought Harry was going to bite it. He's my favourite character (although, his martyr mode bothered me, more than Angry!Harry of OotP ever did, but that ended up saving him and everyone else -- go figure), and I prepared myself for this, but it ended up... not? I am still absorbing it in. I can't re-look at my book since I passed it on to the hubby, then mum-in-law gets it next.

I want to start from Book 1 again, but I have all my books packed for the move. Not good.
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Old 07-22-2007, 07:43 AM   #8
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I really liked it. I finished my read in the wee hours, but was too tired to post.

Over-all (and subject to a more leisurely re-read now that I've gotten the first frenetic read out of the way), I'm at a loss to understand the complaining I've seen elsewhere. But then again, that's how I felt about HBP as well. I think Rowling did a good job tying everything together, it was exciting and I think that, for the most part, it fit into the six preceding books as well as I could have expected. And I know people hate the epilogue, but I didn't mind it. It was just a longer way of saying: 'And they all lived happily ever after'.

I'll express my specific thoughts in list-form - just because.

Five things I loved - (1) Neville! What a great character arc for him, going from the awkwardly clumsy and shy boy who keeps losing his toad in the first book to the total bad-ass of this book. But still, somehow, remaining Neville. I actually think he ends up as my favorite non-Trio character.

(2) I'm really happy that the focus of the final book was on the Trio, and that they all had substantial roles. One of the things I don't like about the movies is the requirement that the focus is displaced almost entirely onto Harry, with the Ron and Hermione plots being sacrificied or cut altogether. But this book had the Trio up front and center, and I loved it.

(3) I have never bought into the theory that Harry was a Horcrux, but now that it's over I like the thematic symmetry that Rowling created with the prophecy. I may have some quibbles (I'll get into that below) relating to how Harry ended up as a "master" of Death, but I like that Rowling set up the ending, with Voldemort tethering him to life unintentionally in the same way that Voldemort was tethered by Harry.

(4) All (or almost all) of the Ron/Hermione stuff. What can I say? Even though I acknowledge that shipping was NEVER the focus of these stories, I'm still really happy they ended up together.

(5) I'm happy Harry didn't die, even though he was not one of my non-negotiable character deaths. And I'm very happy that he ends up with a loving family, because he deserved that happiness.

Two things that made me very very sad

(1) Hedwig. Sniff. I think her very early death bothered me the most, even MORE than Fred.

(2) That this is the end.

Three things that I'm not sure how I feel about

(1) Dumbledore's past and his motivations. I get that we needed to learn more about Dumbledore. And I get that it was necessary for Harry to step up and be a "better" hero than Dumbledore if the story was going to have a logical and satisfying ending. From a practical perspective, I get that it was necessary for Dumbledore to withhold as much information as he did, otherwise there would be no "quest" adventure to form the backbone of the plot. But did he really need to leave so much for the Trio to figure out on their own? I'm not sure. It felt more than a little reckless - and with all of the characters expressing the same feeling, it bothered me.

(2) The Malfoys all live. I think I needed to see at least Lucius die. Sure, they were all miserable living with Voldemort, and in a sense were punished by getting what they thought they wanted, but still... not sure how I feel about this one either.

(3) Fred/Remus/Tonks. While I know Rowling didn't want to shy away from death and having characters sacrificed to show how dire the threat from Voldemort really was, I think by the time readers get to the final battle, that point is made. So part of me thinks that these last three deaths were gratuitous - but then part of me thinks they were necessary in order to propel Harry's penultimate self-sacrifice, because they weighed heavily on him. So I'm still pondering this one.

Three things that I don't think worked

(1) Snape's story. I actually don't have any problem with Snape loving Lily - it was clearly unrequited, and just because it's a theory that's been tossed around forever doesn't mean it doesn't work in and of itself. But Snape (love him or hate him) has been such a critical factor leading up to this book that I felt it was insufficient to see next to nothing of him until the end, and then have one chapter devoted to exposition in the form of the Pensieve which explained his motivation. It felt like he was "missing", and then it was a hurry to catch up. I can't explain it, but I don't feel like the structure of the story worked to really wrap up Snape's part in it.

(2) Ron leaving Harry/Hermione. I know I'm biased because Ron has always been one of my favorite characters, and I know he was affected by the locket, but this just felt wrong and didn't work. For me.

(3) Dumbledore clearly planned for Snape to end up with the Elder Wand, so Draco being its owner (which paved the way for Harry to be the owner) was unexpected. But I think it was necessary for Harry to have all three of the deathly hallows in order for him to be able to be the "master" of Death and return to finish the job after Voldemort kills him. Or was the fact that Voldemort had Harry's blood in him enough to tether Harry to life? And, if so, why did Dumbledore need to leave the clues about the Hallows in the first place? I'm not sure I understand this, so it goes into the "I don't think it worked category". I'm also not sure why the killing curse wouldn't have rebounded the first time Voldemort tried it (the one that sent Harry to King's Cross), given that he was, at that time, already the real owner of the Elder Wand? Wait - was it because in the first instance Harry did not fight back, but in the second he used Expelliarmus? I'm still a bit fuzzy on how the whole wand thing works.

But all in all, I think I'm as satisfied as I could have hoped to be now that the series is over. I'm really looking forward to what the rest of you think!
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Old 07-22-2007, 05:45 PM   #9
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Just finished it a few minutes ago now life can return to normal for my family members.....lol
I pretty much agree with Platy on what worked well and what seemed a bit on the fence. Hated that Hedwig got killed right off and really didn't see the sense it in at all. Another death just for the sake of causing the reader some pain in my eyes.
And in our mourning I'd like to add Dobby!! I read that part at 1am and bawled my eyes out. Since he hasn't been used in a movie since "Chamber" I don't know how they are going to just pop him into the last movie and make the impact of his death felt like it really is that he HAD been in Harry's life all this time. We'll have to wait and see on that one.
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Old 07-22-2007, 06:47 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Platypus View Post
I really liked it. I finished my read in the wee hours, but was too tired to post.

Over-all (and subject to a more leisurely re-read now that I've gotten the first frenetic read out of the way), I'm at a loss to understand the complaining I've seen elsewhere. But then again, that's how I felt about HBP as well. I think Rowling did a good job tying everything together, it was exciting and I think that, for the most part, it fit into the six preceding books as well as I could have expected.
What Platy said. Seriously though, I go into this series very open to what may happen, and do very little speculating, so nothing happened that annoyed me or felt off. I thought it was very well done.

And it felt like an ending to me, something I can let go of. Even with one-off books like Gone with the Wind or The Secrety History I have trouble letting go. With the Harry Potter series it's amazing how satisfied I felt about the ending, considering how much I love the characters and the story. It's not that I won't miss them, but I am happy with the way it ended. I cannot quite put it into words how big of an achievement that is with me.

Quote:
Ron leaving Harry/Hermione. I know I'm biased because Ron has always been one of my favorite characters, and I know he was affected by the locket, but this just felt wrong and didn't work. For me.
I love Ron too, and it felt wrong, but it was a Ron thing to do with that much strain. He's a hothead and he got riled up, and left. However, unlike most times, he could not go back to them, but later it stated how much he tried and wanted to. That was actually quite sad. And being Ron, Harry will always forgive him, which was nice since I love their relationship. I adore the trio and how trio-centric this was (you're right about how that is missing in the films).

And, like you, I liked the Ron/Hermione. I like how it was handled.
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Old 07-22-2007, 08:10 PM   #11
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I loved the whole thing, from beginning to end. I gotta admit with my hard=heart that what made me tear up, was actually Dudley thanking Harry, kinda. I was sad about the rest, shocked about Hedwig, but maybe cause I was expecting a lot of deaths?

Cool things:

Kreacher turning over a new leaf! How cool was that. I seriously thought he was going to betray them again in the end, but I was laughing so hard when he brought the small calvary in!

Snape not being a bad guy. I got to nah-nah at my sister, Mrs. Mugglenet herself, over that one. Oh and Dumbledore not being as white as the driven snow.

Hermione. She just rocked this book!

All the feats of daring the trio managed to pull off. The MINISTRY! GRINGOTTS! It was just cool.

Not so cool things:

I struggled with this one.
umhh....I didn't like the way she explained away Petunia's story. It still doesn't add up to me, but maybe I was reading so fast I missed something.

Over all it was a fantastic read! I even appreciated the epilougue. I was shocked, but in a way grateful for it. Helped me let go a little more.

Hope everyone enjoyed it!
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Old 07-22-2007, 10:22 PM   #12
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OK just finished, wow 759 pages in just over 12 hours.

I really liked it, I thought it was a great book, I loved how trio-centric it was, I loved how she developed the R/H relationship and the trio's friendship. I loved the way we've seen Neville develop over the books, he was so awesome here and major props to Minerva and Molly. I have to say that Molly and Percy were two of the Weasly's in my don't care list and she is now one of my favorites, a true Momma Bear.

While I was very saddened by Fred's death the one that really broke me were Tonks and Remus. Dobby and Hedwig also tore me up, I think I might still be in shock about Fred.

I think I agree with Canti and Platy on the things that worked and saddened me but I don't really have any things I hate or felt off to me. I great book, one that makes me want to read Years 1-6 all over again to see what I missed.
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Old 07-22-2007, 10:31 PM   #13
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I just finished it like a minute ago and came running here!

Quote:
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.....But I'm seriously traumatised over Hedwig - it was such an undignified way for her to go. She never harmed anyone and to be hit by Avada Kedavra and then blow up in a motorbike sidecar several miles above England - and so early on in the book... I...

I got to that point and in my head something just said "This is going to be a rough ride"
You aren't the only one! That was the first time I found myself in a puddle of tears over this book. Wasn't the last by a long shot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morrigan
I'm not reading any posts because I haven't read the book yet. I just picked it up 1 hour ago and I can't seem to bring myself to start the book. I think I'm scared to see it end. How wierd is that?
I kept picking it up then putting it down for the first few chapters myself. First because I didn't want it to end, second because what if I didn't like the end. But no worries, I really enjoyed it, although per our prior agreement in the Potter-Palooza Thread, I did let fly the West Coast Wail when Fred bit the dust.

I was very surprised that she killed off Fred. I would have bet money that none of the kids would have died. And yes, I know Fred wasn't technically a kid, but still. I was glad to see that Percy came to his senses and rejoined the family at the final minute. I also think it was rather sad that he was there fighting with Fred at the end. Just when he rejoins the family, it's shattered once again.

I LOVED that it was the most Trio-centric of the books, and I thought Ron bailing on H and Hr was exactly something he'd do. Ron's always flown off the handle when the stress gets to be too much, and this was no exception. The fact that he regretted it as soon as he'd done it, then fought so long and hard to find a way back marked a turning point in the Life of Ron Weasley. If that had never happened, who knows if Ron would have been able to deal with all that followed.

Hermione. What in the world can I say about Hermione? I've always loved her. Her courage, her loyalty, her stubbornness, her narrow mindedness...all of it. The way she dealt with the curses that Bellatrix was throwing at her at the Malfoy's... Wonderful.

Speaking of the Malfoy's. I can't believe, after all of my moaning and bitching about him...I actually CRIED when stupid Dobby bit the dust. DOBBY! And many of you know how much I detest house-elves!

I'm sad to see that I was right about Lupin biting the dust, but was very pleased that Snape was on the side of Dumbledore the entire time. I just KNEW he was, although I thought he might have only been so because he had sworn an Unbreakable Oath or something, not just because of his love for Lilly. But either way, it worked for me.

Well, I think that's it for now. I'm still trying to wrap my brain around the rest of my thoughts. I'm sure I'll go back and re-read it a few times, but for right now I'm going to pop a couple of aspirin. Reading for 12 straight hours tends to give one a headache. Accio Tylenol!
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Old 07-22-2007, 10:39 PM   #14
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And in our mourning I'd like to add Dobby!! I read that part at 1am and bawled my eyes out.
I was surprised at how affected I was by Dobby's death as well - and even more surprised by how much I liked the Kreacher story in this book. I've never been a fan of the house elves in these books - quite disliked those parts of the story, in fact. But it all worked in this one - maybe because JK handled the elves with a bit of a lighter touch? In any event, I guess I'm ready to say that the whole S.P.E.W. sub-plot paid off - and hey, it even led directly to the Ron/Hermione kiss!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantinera
It's not that I won't miss them, but I am happy with the way it ended.
I feel the exact same way. There's a big part of me that selfishly wants more stories about Harry/Ron/Hermione, but I am content with the way things ended up. And in a few years, if Rowling decides to write about Albus, Rose, Hugo, James and Lily (and even Scorpius), I think I'd be first in line to pick up the book.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morrigan
While I was very saddened by Fred's death the one that really broke me were Tonks and Remus. Dobby and Hedwig also tore me up, I think I might still be in shock about Fred.
The thing about Fred dying is that it makes me feel mostly sad for George. Earlier in the book, when Fred is freaking out about George's injury, it was a reminder about how connected and close those two are. So, as Dumbledore advised, I don't pity the dead - I pity George, because he will never be the same.

And I think part of the reason I'm still on the fence about Tonks and Remus dying is that it leaves their baby an orphan in much the same way Harry (and Neville) were left orphaned. But one of my favorite parts of the Epilogue was the reference to Teddy Lupin eating dinner at the Potters' house 4 nights a week - I think it was a nice way to demonstrate that even though Teddy was orphaned, he still grew up around people who loved him, so in that way he didn't have to suffer the way Harry did.

Oh, and I forgot to mention - the other great part of the Epilogue? Neville as Herbology Professor at Hogwarts. I hope he's also the head of Gryffindor house.
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Old 07-22-2007, 10:42 PM   #15
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Speaking of the Malfoy's. I can't believe, after all of my moaning and bitching about him...I actually CRIED when stupid Dobby bit the dust. DOBBY! And many of you know how much I detest house-elves!
Me too! And I was never a Dobby fan. And when Harry dug the grave by hand? Very touching.

Platy asked what the rest of us think -- My husband asked me today which of the seven I liked the best and right now I would have to say this one. I know many people are complaining about it (not necessarily here) but I for one like closure. Yes, it has flaws. Yes, some of the arcs didn't work for me and yes, there are holes but I enjoyed the revelations and conclusions. And she did a wonderful job with the maturation of the trio. I'm still sticking with my earlier decision that the 'epilogue' was cheesey but it does give everyone the big "awwww" so I forbear.
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