INTERESTING interview with David Fury. - Page 5

Adrian_Tepes · 12-18-2005, 01:05 PM

Quote:

FURY: Boy, I think I've answered this differently every time someone's asked it because it really just depends on the circumstances. I used to say Xander because I always found Xander to be the guy I most related to. The guy with the snarky comments who kind of stands outside of everything but wanting to be involved, you know, wanting to help.

As things went along and as the characters developed, I think I began to really love writing Spike. Spike was a wonderful character that went through a lot of changes over the years and those changes were really interesting to incorporate into the character without undermining who that character was. It was really very interesting having him go from villain to anti-hero to hero, which is kind of what happened with him. I think he became the most rewarding character to, ultimately, write but the character most people on the show associate me with was Harmony, for some reason. I seem to have a knack for writing her so I don't know what I'm tapping into there. I did love writing her.

Seems Fury didn't quite see the problem.

brownsbros3 · 12-19-2005, 02:04 PM

It was asked earlier in the thread, so I had some free time and looked up the Angel credits for Fury and Minear.

FURY:
wrote Lonely Hearts
co-wrote Parting Gifts with Jeannine Renshaw
wrote Disharmony
wrote The Price
wrote The House Always Wins
co-wrote Awakening with Steven S. DeKnight
wrote Salvage
wrote Peace Out
co-wrote Just Rewards with Ben Edlund
co-wrote Destiny with Steven S. DeKnight
wrote and directed You're Welcome
wrote Power Play

MINEAR:
wrote Sense and Sensitivity
co-wrote Hero with Howard Gordon
wrote Somnambulist
wrote The Prodigal
co-wrote Sanctuary with Joss Whedon
wrote Are You Now or Have You Ever Been
wrote and directed Darla
co-wrote The Trial with Douglas Petrie
co-wrote Reunion with Shawn Ryan
wrote Reprise
wrote Epiphany
wrote and directed Through the Looking Glass
wrote That Old Gang of Mine
co-wrote Billy with Jeffrey Bell
wrote and directed Lullaby
directed and co-wrote Couplet with Jeffrey Bell
directed A New World
wrote and directed Benediction
wrote and directed Home

CA4eva · 01-18-2006, 01:07 AM

Just quick here to point out now: It's not like B/A was a pairing from heaven. Infact, it was a pairing from depths of hell. It's easy to journey back and see Buffy never understood Angel and his grieving pain. All she could do was take him to depresso land. I was once a B/A shipper, but thanks to god I caught some AtS eps and became a fan of that show. I became a two-shipper for B/A-C/A but luckily after viewing BtVS s3 I finally understood how long-strechting story the Bangel romance had become. It was old and a whirlwind out of nowhere. Plus, if Buffy really loved Angel, she would've never dated Riley. Sleeping with Spike comes next and shows how meaningless Angel was to her.

Ok, to be pointing something out: Buffy hits Angel, no guilt, he hits her back, guilt and guilt = Joss is stupid. (Add to that, Buffy took advantage of Angel's 'Im sorry, Im sorry' panic. She was an absolute bitch in that episode and I was pissed off of how she acted like to Faith!

)

The hard proof of Cordelia understanding Angel would be how she consoled him after Buffy died. Those are moments to treasure as C/A 'classic scenes'

Tim Minear was probably trying to pluff himself on to Bangel shippers by underwriting Cordelia. Burrying her existence six foot into a ground. What he doesn't know that there are Cangel shippers out there who could badmouth him to hell.

If only they'd let C/A become a major story, the show wouldn't go downhill like that. They should've never even brought Connor into the story and killed Darla off somewhere in the second season. Helping bring back the concentration on Cordy/Angel. After years of 'vampire and slayer's tragic romance story' we needed something different.

Wow, my first post and I wrote it this long. I'm Rachelle, bytw, and in case there are confusions, it's pronounced Rashelle. :wave: Now that I have permission to upload my own av I'm heading off to Control Panel.

JoJo · 01-19-2006, 11:35 AM

Quote:

I was once a B/A shipper, but thanks to god I caught some AtS eps and became a fan of that show. I became a two-shipper for B/A-C/A but luckily after viewing BtVS s3 I finally understood how long-strechting story the Bangel romance had become.

Congratulations on seeing the light!

Quote:

Plus, if Buffy really loved Angel, she would've never dated Riley. Sleeping with Spike comes next and shows how meaningless Angel was to her.

Eh, I have to disagree. I can't fault Buffy for wanting to move on after Angel dumped her and left town for good.

Quote:

(Add to that, Buffy took advantage of Angel's 'Im sorry, Im sorry' panic. She was an absolute bitch in that episode and I was pissed off of how she acted like to Faith! )

Again, considering that Faith had just tried to get Buffy killed, I think Buffy was remarkably restrained and would have been well within her rights to help the Watcher's Council capture her.

Quote:

If only they'd let C/A become a major story, the show wouldn't go downhill like that. They should've never even brought Connor into the story and killed Darla off somewhere in the second season. Helping bring back the concentration on Cordy/Angel. After years of 'vampire and slayer's tragic romance story' we needed something different.

I'll agree with you on that. Darla should have been staked in S2 - Angel should never have let Darla and Drusilla to leave town. As for Connor, that little creep more than anything, helped vault the show over the shark tank. It was never the same after him and the changes certainly weren't for the better.

QueenC4707 · 01-22-2006, 09:57 PM

Welcome to the board, Rachelle! I hope you enjoy yourself here.

Quote:

I was once a B/A shipper, but thanks to god I caught some AtS eps and became a fan of that show. I became a two-shipper for B/A-C/A but luckily after viewing BtVS s3 I finally understood how long-strechting story the Bangel romance had become.

Hehe, what JoJo said.

Honestly though, I don't have a issue with B/A... granted I was never a hardcore shipper, but IMO the ship had been played out by S3 of Buffy.

Quote:

Plus, if Buffy really loved Angel, she would've never dated Riley. Sleeping with Spike comes next and shows how meaningless Angel was to her.

I don't really blame Buffy for moving on... I never had a problem with B/R or Spuffy. The show had to stay interesting which would be hard if Buffy spent all her time pining over someone who wasn't even a cast member anymore. The only thing I have a problem with is Buffy rubbing Riley in Angel's face the way she did in "Sanctuary." I also really didn't like the way Angel got around Buffy in the Xovers, right up till S5. It was like bam! Instant character regression in one easy step.

Quote:

(Add to that, Buffy took advantage of Angel's 'Im sorry, Im sorry' panic. She was an absolute bitch in that episode and I was pissed off of how she acted like to Faith! )

I actually found that in character. What I had a real problem with was her treatment of Angel.

Quote:

If only they'd let C/A become a major story, the show wouldn't go downhill like that. They should've never even brought Connor into the story and killed Darla off somewhere in the second season. Helping bring back the concentration on Cordy/Angel. After years of 'vampire and slayer's tragic romance story' we needed something different.

Agreed. It's the same sorta thing I said about Buffy/Riley and then Buffy/Spike... while it's true that neither BtVS nor AtS was all about who's snogging whom (I'll leave that for WB teen soaps), viewers are drawn to the "human interest" subplots which usually include romances. It wouldn't make for interesting television to have Angel pine for years over someone who isn't even a cast member. It got kinda silly in S5, if you ask me, considering Buffy wasn't even on the show! Spike I can understand b/c of the events of the past two BtVS seasons, but hello, B/A had been over for three years!

I think starting up C/A, then refusing to follow through was a very big mistake. I don't know what the reasoning behind this was--whether the writers were all B/A shippers or whether they were afraid B/A fans would boycott the show or something, or--and this is pure fanwank on my part--they somehow believed that they had to make Cordy more like Buffy in order to make C/A plausible (we know this is B.S., but playing devil's advocate here). Hence "mellowing" Cordy to the extent that she lost the snark and "bite" she was known for in the earlier seasons, the demonization, and then the higher being plot. IMO it negated Cordy's original function as a character, to provide a "humanizing" influence in the words of Doyle.

And as for Connor, just... ugh. Bad idea all around, bad execution, just... bad. I know some people don't agree with me, but I still contend that the minute Darla showed up pregnant was the minute the show jumped the shark. As for S4, well... we were beyond sharks then. It had jumped the continent.

*thanks God for the first 2 1/2 seasons*

brownsbros3 · 01-28-2006, 06:14 PM

I couldn't stand B/A so I was glad when they split into two shows. My problem is with the mentality some of the fans have about it being alright for Buffy to move to other love interests, but yet they got so upset when the writers tried to let Angel finally move on.

I don't know if this is true or not, but I read on another site that Joss proposed the C/A idea to David Greenwalt, and his initial response was "How can we do that to Buffy?" Since they had broken up for the 100th time at the end of BTVS S3, Buffy had already done the deed with Parker and Riley, and was starting things up with Spike. Angel had only had the one night with Darla. Greenwalt later then realized that it was actually a good idea.

Whedon later claimed that the reason they backed off with C/A is because they got so much hate mail over it.

As far as "Sanctuary" went, Angel had nothing to apologize for. He was trying to help someone who was mentally ill. He turned out to be right. I was so happy when Angel finally stood up for himself, and told her off. Unfortunately, they had him wuss out and apologize.

I also agree about the crossovers being a big regression of the Angel character. He went from being the hero back to needing Buffy to fight his battles for him.

Cordelia along with Doyle, Wesley, and the others helped to open Angel's eyes. On BTVS, while he helped out Buffy's friends, he never really seemed to care about them. He was only doing it for her. On ATS, he started helping people because it was the right thing to do. With Cordelia's help, he learned to care about the people he was helping. She made him want to be better. Their relationship also helped Cordelia to do alot of growing up as well.

JoJo · 01-29-2006, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Cordelia along with Doyle, Wesley, and the others helped to open Angel's eyes. On BTVS, while he helped out Buffy's friends, he never really seemed to care about them. He was only doing it for her. On ATS, he started helping people because it was the right thing to do. With Cordelia's help, he learned to care about the people he was helping. She made him want to be better. Their relationship also helped Cordelia to do alot of growing up as well.

I think it's telling that as soon as Cordelia was gone from the picture, Angel regressed back into a selfish, self-absorbed jerk who no longer went out to fight the good fight.

Quote:

I don't know if this is true or not, but I read on another site that Joss proposed the C/A idea to David Greenwalt, and his initial response was "How can we do that to Buffy?" Since they had broken up for the 100th time at the end of BTVS S3, Buffy had already done the deed with Parker and Riley, and was starting things up with Spike. Angel had only had the one night with Darla. Greenwalt later then realized that it was actually a good idea.

I'll believe it. What gets me is that from what I understand, there was only about a 25% audience crossover in the first place, so I don't understand the great fear of pissing off the Bangels. From what I can tell, they're an extremely vocal minority who most probably weren't regular Angel viewers in the first place, so why did their opinions mean so much?

It makes far more sense to have developed a relationship on Angel between characters who were on the show from day one instead of constantly catering to the fans of a pairing that was developed on another show.

tojoson · 01-29-2006, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoJo

I'll believe it. What gets me is that from what I understand, there was only about a 25% audience crossover in the first place, so I don't understand the great fear of pissing off the Bangels. From what I can tell, they're an extremely vocal minority who most probably weren't regular Angel viewers in the first place, so why did their opinions mean so much?

well, as i understand it, of that 25% a lot were bangles, and they mostly posted at 'the bronze' which is the only site that whedon went to, so he got a one-sided view of the ships,
besides, they convinced him he was God, so naturally he's going to cater to them

That*clown · 01-30-2006, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoJo

I think it's telling that as soon as Cordelia was gone from the picture, Angel regressed back into a selfish, self-absorbed jerk who no longer went out to fight the good fight.

Well. That seems a little overstated in that the last shot we'll ever see of Angel is him charging to his death in a battle against evil.

CA4eva · 01-30-2006, 10:53 AM

Exactly what I'm talking about. I have no problem with Spuffy or B/R, but why can't Angel move on? He has a right to, y'know. To backdrop the idea C/A was a really stupid decision by Joss. At a point with seeing too much favors to B/A, I felt sick at my stomach and developed a great hate towards the show and character Buffy and the ship Bangel. But that was temporary, and I don't really care about that anymore. SMG saw it first, and I think that's the reason she refused to return as Buffy on 'The Girl In Question' I give a applaud to SMG for opening her eyes soon, if that really is the case.

(P.S, somebody find Joss' e-mail adress and post him the link to Stranger Things)

B/A: Borrrrrinnngg

C/A:

CA4eva · 01-30-2006, 10:57 AM

Thanks for the welcome, bytw

And, I owe God a big thank you for introducing me to Angel and making the light visible (lol :P)

brownsbros3 · 01-30-2006, 11:06 AM

She didn't return for "The Girl in Question" because she was in Japan filming "The Grudge." Sarah actually did an interview with one of those sci-fi magazines right after the cancellation where she said that she always felt bad for Angel because it was never allowed to get out of Buffy's shadow.

CA4eva · 01-30-2006, 09:47 PM

I didn't watch 'The Grudge' but my brother did, and he said it was a god awful movie (was it?) See, even SMG understood Angel needed it's own space. What were they trying to prove with all those crossovers? First time, it's ok, it's dealing with a character from BtVS so somebody else would also come, BUT what was with the crossover in S4? The Beast, Jasmine or anything else happening in there wasn't any of the Scoobies concern. If only David Boreanaz would've demanded his show's space, Angel would still be here today. He could've threatened to quit, would've gotten Joss straightened out.

JoJo · 01-31-2006, 08:15 AM

Quote:

What were they trying to prove with all those crossovers?

What I hated about the crossovers is that the Fang Gang took a back seat and became secondary on their own show and I really hated the idea that they needed the Scoobies to bail them out.

CA4eva · 01-31-2006, 09:53 AM

Yeah, it's their show, it's called Angel not 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer show#2' If they sit around and do nothing, then the show's cancellation WAS necessary. The WB has way more important shows to spend money on than some kind of cheap reproduction appeareances.

01-30-2006, 09:47 PM	#73
CA4eva Doyle<3hero(RIP, Glenn) Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: USA Posts: 64	I didn't watch 'The Grudge' but my brother did, and he said it was a god awful movie (was it?) See, even SMG understood Angel needed it's own space. What were they trying to prove with all those crossovers? First time, it's ok, it's dealing with a character from BtVS so somebody else would also come, BUT what was with the crossover in S4? The Beast, Jasmine or anything else happening in there wasn't any of the Scoobies concern. If only David Boreanaz would've demanded his show's space, Angel would still be here today. He could've threatened to quit, would've gotten Joss straightened out. __________________ Sometimes people are too annoying to talk to, just like a tree! ChosenTwo, you're my hero

01-31-2006, 09:53 AM	#75
CA4eva Doyle<3hero(RIP, Glenn) Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: USA Posts: 64	Yeah, it's their show, it's called Angel not 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer show#2' If they sit around and do nothing, then the show's cancellation WAS necessary. The WB has way more important shows to spend money on than some kind of cheap reproduction appeareances. __________________ Sometimes people are too annoying to talk to, just like a tree! ChosenTwo, you're my hero

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12-19-2005, 02:04 PM	#62
brownsbros3 Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,145	It was asked earlier in the thread, so I had some free time and looked up the Angel credits for Fury and Minear. FURY: wrote Lonely Hearts co-wrote Parting Gifts with Jeannine Renshaw wrote Disharmony wrote The Price wrote The House Always Wins co-wrote Awakening with Steven S. DeKnight wrote Salvage wrote Peace Out co-wrote Just Rewards with Ben Edlund co-wrote Destiny with Steven S. DeKnight wrote and directed You're Welcome wrote Power Play MINEAR: wrote Sense and Sensitivity co-wrote Hero with Howard Gordon wrote Somnambulist wrote The Prodigal co-wrote Sanctuary with Joss Whedon wrote Are You Now or Have You Ever Been wrote and directed Darla co-wrote The Trial with Douglas Petrie co-wrote Reunion with Shawn Ryan wrote Reprise wrote Epiphany wrote and directed Through the Looking Glass wrote That Old Gang of Mine co-wrote Billy with Jeffrey Bell wrote and directed Lullaby directed and co-wrote Couplet with Jeffrey Bell directed A New World wrote and directed Benediction wrote and directed Home

01-18-2006, 01:07 AM	#63
CA4eva Doyle<3hero(RIP, Glenn) Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: USA Posts: 64	Just quick here to point out now: It's not like B/A was a pairing from heaven. Infact, it was a pairing from depths of hell. It's easy to journey back and see Buffy never understood Angel and his grieving pain. All she could do was take him to depresso land. I was once a B/A shipper, but thanks to god I caught some AtS eps and became a fan of that show. I became a two-shipper for B/A-C/A but luckily after viewing BtVS s3 I finally understood how long-strechting story the Bangel romance had become. It was old and a whirlwind out of nowhere. Plus, if Buffy really loved Angel, she would've never dated Riley. Sleeping with Spike comes next and shows how meaningless Angel was to her. Ok, to be pointing something out: Buffy hits Angel, no guilt, he hits her back, guilt and guilt = Joss is stupid. (Add to that, Buffy took advantage of Angel's 'Im sorry, Im sorry' panic. She was an absolute bitch in that episode and I was pissed off of how she acted like to Faith! ) The hard proof of Cordelia understanding Angel would be how she consoled him after Buffy died. Those are moments to treasure as C/A 'classic scenes' Tim Minear was probably trying to pluff himself on to Bangel shippers by underwriting Cordelia. Burrying her existence six foot into a ground. What he doesn't know that there are Cangel shippers out there who could badmouth him to hell. If only they'd let C/A become a major story, the show wouldn't go downhill like that. They should've never even brought Connor into the story and killed Darla off somewhere in the second season. Helping bring back the concentration on Cordy/Angel. After years of 'vampire and slayer's tragic romance story' we needed something different. Wow, my first post and I wrote it this long. I'm Rachelle, bytw, and in case there are confusions, it's pronounced Rashelle. :wave: Now that I have permission to upload my own av I'm heading off to Control Panel.

01-28-2006, 06:14 PM	#66
brownsbros3 Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,145	I couldn't stand B/A so I was glad when they split into two shows. My problem is with the mentality some of the fans have about it being alright for Buffy to move to other love interests, but yet they got so upset when the writers tried to let Angel finally move on. I don't know if this is true or not, but I read on another site that Joss proposed the C/A idea to David Greenwalt, and his initial response was "How can we do that to Buffy?" Since they had broken up for the 100th time at the end of BTVS S3, Buffy had already done the deed with Parker and Riley, and was starting things up with Spike. Angel had only had the one night with Darla. Greenwalt later then realized that it was actually a good idea. Whedon later claimed that the reason they backed off with C/A is because they got so much hate mail over it. As far as "Sanctuary" went, Angel had nothing to apologize for. He was trying to help someone who was mentally ill. He turned out to be right. I was so happy when Angel finally stood up for himself, and told her off. Unfortunately, they had him wuss out and apologize. I also agree about the crossovers being a big regression of the Angel character. He went from being the hero back to needing Buffy to fight his battles for him. Cordelia along with Doyle, Wesley, and the others helped to open Angel's eyes. On BTVS, while he helped out Buffy's friends, he never really seemed to care about them. He was only doing it for her. On ATS, he started helping people because it was the right thing to do. With Cordelia's help, he learned to care about the people he was helping. She made him want to be better. Their relationship also helped Cordelia to do alot of growing up as well.

01-30-2006, 10:53 AM	#70
CA4eva Doyle<3hero(RIP, Glenn) Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: USA Posts: 64	Exactly what I'm talking about. I have no problem with Spuffy or B/R, but why can't Angel move on? He has a right to, y'know. To backdrop the idea C/A was a really stupid decision by Joss. At a point with seeing too much favors to B/A, I felt sick at my stomach and developed a great hate towards the show and character Buffy and the ship Bangel. But that was temporary, and I don't really care about that anymore. SMG saw it first, and I think that's the reason she refused to return as Buffy on 'The Girl In Question' I give a applaud to SMG for opening her eyes soon, if that really is the case. (P.S, somebody find Joss' e-mail adress and post him the link to Stranger Things) B/A: Borrrrrinnngg C/A:

01-30-2006, 10:57 AM	#71
CA4eva Doyle<3hero(RIP, Glenn) Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: USA Posts: 64	Thanks for the welcome, bytw And, I owe God a big thank you for introducing me to Angel and making the light visible (lol :P)

01-30-2006, 11:06 AM	#72
brownsbros3 Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,145	She didn't return for "The Girl in Question" because she was in Japan filming "The Grudge." Sarah actually did an interview with one of those sci-fi magazines right after the cancellation where she said that she always felt bad for Angel because it was never allowed to get out of Buffy's shadow.