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Old 12-09-2005, 10:13 PM   #1
psychofilly
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INTERESTING interview with David Fury.

Talks openly and extensively about his involvement with Buffy and Angel, Joss and Sarah, and the realities of plotting, budgeting, and shooting the shows.

http://www.mikejozic.com/buffyweek6.html
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Old 12-09-2005, 11:01 PM   #2
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Well. After reading that, "You're Welcome" becomes a whole lot more bitter than bittersweet.

I wish we could get such an in-depth interview with one of the actual Angel writers and not just someone who signed on in the last season. Someone who actually KNOWS something about what happened on the show, and whose opinions are not formed almost entirely from his time on BtVS.

Thanks for the link, PF. I think.
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Old 12-09-2005, 11:21 PM   #3
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Well it does sound like he was relatively involved in Angel, if in an unofficial capacity. Sounds like he did some script polishing all along. I did appreciate the candor of the interview.
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Old 12-10-2005, 01:05 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psychofilly
Well it does sound like he was relatively involved in Angel, if in an unofficial capacity. Sounds like he did some script polishing all along. I did appreciate the candor of the interview.
While he was certainly at least marginally involved in AtS, the interview to me was All About the BtVS. The only real mentions for AtS were about the last season, and how the ratings and quality were at an all time high. To which I'd like to respond with a hearty "Whatever" on behalf of seasons 1-3. And I could have gone my whole life without knowing the original intent for "You're Welcome". Took a bit of the polish off, that did.

But I do appreciate you bringing the info. It was a fairly interesting read. It's quite obvious that the things that were important to me about AtS didn't hold significance for Fury, and the things he cared about were the meaningless stuff for me, and I suspect that's where my antipathy for this interview originates.
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Old 12-10-2005, 09:30 AM   #5
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Wow. That was a very good interview. And while I might not agree with everything Fury said, I can understand and respect it.

Looking back on the series now I can understand his comments. Particularly about season five. I'm on the record as saying that while I didn't enjoy the overall arc, I did find it to have some nice standalone's. "Hellbound" being my favorite.

But this seems to reaffirm my belief that Angel got a screwjob in its final season. I knew the budget had been cut. But if the reason that the show was cancelled was because Joss asked for an early pickup decision, then that certainly isn't right. I wasn't the biggest fan of season five, but I do think Angel had one more season in it. And Fury's comment, about season six being like "The Road Warrior" is an intriguing concept to me.

And I like his honesty in saying he wasn't sure how to write Wes and Cordy. I finished reading this and found myself to respect Fury and, gasp, Whedon. Or, at least, not hate Whedon as much.
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Old 12-10-2005, 12:38 PM   #6
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Wow. ME is gone, but the spin lives on.

That said, there were a few moments of candor that made this interesting (although the Whedon-Gellar pissing contest has been more or less an open secret for years now). Thanks again for bringing it over, PF.
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Old 12-14-2005, 09:11 AM   #7
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I found his comment about how Whedon really didn't have a whole lot of involvement with ATS until the last season to be particularly interesting.
Fury's stuff was a mixed bag. He wrote some really good episodes, and some really crappy ones too.
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Old 12-14-2005, 09:53 AM   #8
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Just FYI, there's been some follow-up to this interview, which apparently was actually conducted about a year ago even though it wasn't published until today.

I don't have links to the actual posts (but I believe they were at Whedonesque), but the long story short is that Tim Minear felt compelled to come out of the woodwork to "rebut" certain of Fury's allegations, most notably the one that suggested Joss wasn't involved in AtS. Oh, and also to soften the perception that it was Joss' fault that the WB cancelled AtS because Joss asked for a pick-up too early. (Which, by the way, wasn't exactly news to me in any event.) And to say that Joss is good, and great, and should be praised, or some other stuff like that. And that all of the above is the real truth (notwithstanding that Tim himself wasn't all that involved with AtS for most of Season 4 and 5).

And I'm guessing that someone, somewhere tore a bit of a strip off of Fury for what may be seen by some as spin but by others as a little too much of a view into the man behind the curtain, because he followed up Tim's posts with his own in which he suggests that he didn't really mean to say... what he said. Joss was VERY involved in the show. Joss' motives for asking for a pick-up early were noble and good, and the WB would have cancelled the show in any event and so the almighty one should certainly not be blamed.

Etcetera.
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Old 12-14-2005, 10:39 AM   #9
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"What protected Angel all those years was [that] it was married to Buffy on the schedule. Because of Buffy's perceived success and the media attention it got, it gave them a reason to keep another one of Joss' shows on the air."

This was another of Fury's points that I wanted to bring up. It's this ME mindset that really ticks me off. I think alot of the problem was that they left the shows too attached. Personally, I think they could have done so much more with Angel, but they always seemed afraid to let the show move beyond Buffy.

They really wrote the series into a corner, because just about everytime something major happened on Angel, rather than letting the Fang Gang handle it on their own, they would bring someone over from Buffy. Just look at the ratio of characters that crossed over from Buffy to Angel verses Angel over to Buffy. It's very one sided.

ATS gets no respect. For example, prior to his appearance on Veronica Mars, one of the writers for the Houston Chronicle did an interview with Joss Whedon. All they talked about were Buffy and Firefly. Angel wasn't even mentioned.
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Old 12-14-2005, 11:09 AM   #10
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All they talked about were Buffy and Firefly. Angel wasn't even mentioned
So Fireflop , which lasted all of 11 episodes was mentioned, but Angel , which lasted five full seasons wasn't. Yup, Angel was the red-headed step-child of the Whedonverse all right.

Much as it galls me to admit, I have to side with Whedon about SMG. If it weren't for BTVS , the highpoint of her career would have been her stint on the soap.

I'm with Brown on the 'they should have severed the shows' bandwagon. Aside from Spike's brilliant commentary in In The Dark , ("To the Angelmobile, away!) and the end of S1 Faith arc, the x-overs diminshed the Angel characters. I didn't like seeing them upstaged on their own show at all.
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Old 12-14-2005, 11:25 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Platypus
Just FYI, there's been some follow-up to this interview, which apparently was actually conducted about a year ago even though it wasn't published until today.

I don't have links to the actual posts (but I believe they were at Whedonesque),
it's at ASSB
here

the link is direct to the 2nd page of the archive, if accessed to far into the future, you may have to go further into the archive to find it
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Old 12-14-2005, 12:30 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Platypus
And I'm guessing that someone, somewhere tore a bit of a strip off of Fury for what may be seen by some as spin but by others as a little too much of a view into the man behind the curtain....
Well, I was talking about the "AtS 5 got the Bestest Ratings and Reviews EVAR!!11!" spin, because what that spin always fails to mention is the fact that the "bestest ratings" lasted for like, three episodes and were "bestest" only in comparison with AtS 4, which represented a vertiginous nose dive in that regard (if not a fully certifiable leap off the Cliffs of Insanity into the Lagoon of Stupid Judgment).

As for critical regard, Buffy had gone off the air. How else were the Matt Roushes of the world going to hoover Whedon in public, start a "Save Our Show!" campaign for Firefly?

But the other works, too.
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Old 12-14-2005, 01:07 PM   #13
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Speaking of Tim Minear, there is also this transcript by _eb of a seminar he did where Cordy, and C/A are mentioned. Further down, Joss mentions B/A in a rather humorous (to me anyway) way.
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Old 12-14-2005, 01:58 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penny Century
Well, I was talking about the "AtS 5 got the Bestest Ratings and Reviews EVAR!!11!" spin, because what that spin always fails to mention is the fact that the "bestest ratings" lasted for like, three episodes and were "bestest" only in comparison with AtS 4, which represented a vertiginous nose dive in that regard (if not a fully certifiable leap off the Cliffs of Insanity into the Lagoon of Stupid Judgment).
I wasn't referring to you specifically. I Agree the ratings spin is laughable, and for all of the "kudos to Fury for speaking the truth" posts I've seen elsewhere with respect to this interview, I think it had a whole lot of other spin. But I simply meant that in addition to the spin, there were chunks of honesty about Joss and the shows, etc.

Thanks for the other link Psychofilly, but scanning it quickly just confirmed one more of my long-held views regarding Minear in particular: he doesn't know the difference between 'a bad idea', and a 'good idea executed badly'. Cordy/Angel was not, IMO, a bad idea - it just needed better (more mature?) writers with less myopic vision. Darla being pregnant with Connor, however? Bad idea from the start, made worse by the aforementioned bad writing tainted by myopic vision.
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Old 12-14-2005, 02:07 PM   #15
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Someone brought up the possibility of playing up the Angel/Cordelia romance. Tim immediately shot that down, “Oh, let’s not go back to that. That was a mistake. Let’s pretend it’s season two and it never happened.”

....

He started to get excited at this point and said it made him want the show back. Someone yelled out that they could do a Cordelia spin-off. “But then I’d have to use Charisma … who I love.”
Oh, Timmuh, how you still piss me off. Too bad nothing you're writing is on the air so I could not watch it - again.

Thanks for the link, PF.
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