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Old 07-22-2005, 10:24 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry
Any Buffyverse project done without Joss would almost certainly fail, so even if he does not have legal control over it, he has practical control over it.
I think that's a fallacy. Your average Joe outside of the net truly doesn't care who wrote, produced, owns, etc. Buffy and it's various characters. I know none of my relatives who watched the shows even know who Joss is nor do they care. If a big enough name took the franchise and made something new with it and it was actually good, people would pay to see it. You can't seriously think a Lucas or Spielberg version of Buffy would be a big flop? I'm not saying those people would touch it, but someone with a weighty name known by the general public I don't think would have any problems drawing a crowd. If the Whedonites want to boycott and not buy tickets to it, I'm sure Fox could afford to lose a few hundred thousand in profit.
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Old 07-23-2005, 11:15 AM   #47
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Someone else may own the rights but Joss has thoroughly ingrained the notion that he was the only reason it was successful to both fans and the idiots in charge. Any attempts by Fox or someone else to mess it without his involvement would be met with huge backlash from his devotees, both the fans and the various critics who love him dearly.
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Old 07-23-2005, 12:27 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian_Tepes
Someone else may own the rights but Joss has thoroughly ingrained the notion that he was the only reason it was successful to both fans and the idiots in charge. Any attempts by Fox or someone else to mess it without his involvement would be met with huge backlash from his devotees, both the fans and the various critics who love him dearly.
1. If this happens it would be years from now and not tomorrow.
2. If we judge how strongly the fans will hold onto the Joss worship by the number of fan sites currently closing down, then it's a good bet in a few years the Buffy/Joss Only freaks will be far, far less numerous. People do move on and it's really hard work to care about something so unimportant in the grand scheme of things as who first did what.
3. Critics may be surprised that anyone other than Joss would touch a Buffy project, but I would guess they wouldn't pan the idea without seeing the product. They might say, "This won't be your grandmother's Buffy," but I'm guessing they'd give a Jackson or a Tarentino or a Spielberg (insert quality director/producer/writer name here) some slack and be pretty excited about the possibilities of seeing someone else's vision of these characters on screen.
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Old 07-23-2005, 02:58 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by DamnSkippy
1. If this happens it would be years from now and not tomorrow.
2. If we judge how strongly the fans will hold onto the Joss worship by the number of fan sites currently closing down, then it's a good bet in a few years the Buffy/Joss Only freaks will be far, far less numerous. People do move on and it's really hard work to care about something so unimportant in the grand scheme of things as who first did what.
3. Critics may be surprised that anyone other than Joss would touch a Buffy project, but I would guess they wouldn't pan the idea without seeing the product. They might say, "This won't be your grandmother's Buffy," but I'm guessing they'd give a Jackson or a Tarentino or a Spielberg (insert quality director/producer/writer name here) some slack and be pretty excited about the possibilities of seeing someone else's vision of these characters on screen.
1. I don't know about that. I think we'll see something sooner than later.
2. Again I would disagree, as older fans move on, newer fans are created all the time.
3. This is Hollywood we're talking about. A land where logic need not apply. There's a very good chance any of those people would seek out Joss for his input into their version of his project. It isn't like what happened with Wilder and Burton which was old Hollywood vs. New, this is New Hollywood working with each other on this.
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Old 07-23-2005, 03:57 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Adrian_Tepes
1. I don't know about that. I think we'll see something sooner than later.
2. Again I would disagree, as older fans move on, newer fans are created all the time.
3. This is Hollywood we're talking about. A land where logic need not apply. There's a very good chance any of those people would seek out Joss for his input into their version of his project. It isn't like what happened with Wilder and Burton which was old Hollywood vs. New, this is New Hollywood working with each other on this.
These are all, of course, our opinions which can neither be proven right or wrong today. Only time will tell.

1. If they do something sooner (which I have no faith will occur) then you could be right. That is assuming all the elements fall into place: DB/SMG/JM/etc all available; JW willing and available; excellent material that meets everyone's approval. However, I think it far more likely that "later" is more likely to happen. I think it's highly probable Fox would want some time to pass to let the images of SMG, DB, JM, etc. fade in the public's mind before presenting something fresh with this franchise with new faces and a new creative team.
2. Newer fans are created, yes, but not in the numbers that the older fans were and probably not in numbers enough to replace those abandoning ship. Plus, with the constant rerun factor of the franchise on TNT, fans can see all the seasons within a year and see it again and again much faster than we did. They will, I suspect, get burned out quicker and not stick around as long as we have.
3. Exactly. This is Hollywood and having worked there and inside it for years, I can tell you it's not about working "with" somebody to do something creative. That's actor/artist lingo for schmoozing up their next job. It's about working with "anyone" who will do it for the best price and make the most profit. If it doesn't fit in with Fox's budget/vision/profit margin to have Whedon do it (assuming they are on good terms with him and he is their first choice), they will not hesitate to get somebody that will. There are no loyalties there and "artful" only applies to bookkeeping.
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Old 07-23-2005, 04:17 PM   #51
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AT -- Alan Moore's involvement in V is for Vendetta and League of Extraordinary Gentlemen and Hellblazer? NIL.

Buffy IS SMG. Not Joss, not James, but Sarah. That's the face and name people know.

A movie that hit the right notes and was marketed the right way could be successful. One without Joss I'd argue. Put say Tim Story or Steve Soderbergh or Steven Greenglass, and critics will love it, because their names are bigger and more respected than Joss.

A more light-hearted, FF-type movie would seem a no-brainer. I don't think James or David would work at this point not only because of the aging issue but it would be a vampire not a Buffy movie. JMHO
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Old 07-23-2005, 04:22 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DamnSkippy
There are no loyalties there and "artful" only applies to bookkeeping.
Oh, that's a quote in the making. Heh, I should send it to my friend who works for AIG.
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Old 07-23-2005, 07:54 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silveragent
AT -- Alan Moore's involvement in V is for Vendetta and League of Extraordinary Gentlemen and Hellblazer? NIL.

Buffy IS SMG. Not Joss, not James, but Sarah. That's the face and name people know.
That's the face you and I know, that's not the face though the industry associates with Buffy though.

Quote:
A movie that hit the right notes and was marketed the right way could be successful. One without Joss I'd argue. Put say Tim Story or Steve Soderbergh or Steven Greenglass, and critics will love it, because their names are bigger and more respected than Joss.

A more light-hearted, FF-type movie would seem a no-brainer. I don't think James or David would work at this point not only because of the aging issue but it would be a vampire not a Buffy movie. JMHO
I don't know about that.

I think Joss will get his Spike movie because no one is going to have the brass to do anything without his input on a movie. It may be this year or next but with all the positive press surrounding the guy not to mention his connections and buddies at Fox (Hello Mrs. Berman), he'll get his way.
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Old 07-23-2005, 08:17 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Adrian_Tepes
That's the face you and I know, that's not the face though the industry associates with Buffy though.
Maybe not, but it's not the "suits" that need to fill the seats, it's the fans. And for the fans, SMG is Buffy. The "Joss is God" contingent will only fill so many seats. For anything Joss produced, whether it's Buffy, Angel or Fire Fly, it's going to take more than the industry yes men and the Whedon-ites to make it successful. It's going to take the average Joe Buffy watcher, who doesn't live and die because of what's said or not said on the internet.
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Old 07-23-2005, 08:33 PM   #55
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I just know I'm not willing to see Hilary Duff take SMG's place.

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Old 07-23-2005, 08:34 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silveragent
AT -- Alan Moore's involvement in V is for Vendetta and League of Extraordinary Gentlemen and Hellblazer? NIL.
Having just been to Comic-Con, I can say for sure that the producers of 'V' are none-too-happy to have Alan Moore telling everyone that their movie is moronic. That may not stop it from being successful (although it will if it is true, as was the case with 'League') but it definitely doesn't help. Similarly, a 'Buffy' project does not need Joss involved, but it is likely to fail if he is actively opposed.

Either way, I think any BtVS project that is entirely free of Joss would only happen at some point in the future where it was a remake, rather than a continuation of the story.
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Old 07-24-2005, 11:18 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaLa247
I just know I'm not willing to see Hilary Duff take SMG's place.

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Im with you on that LaLa. No way Hilary takes SMG's place.
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Old 07-25-2005, 01:11 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovin' Lorne
Maybe not, but it's not the "suits" that need to fill the seats, it's the fans. And for the fans, SMG is Buffy. The "Joss is God" contingent will only fill so many seats. For anything Joss produced, whether it's Buffy, Angel or Fire Fly, it's going to take more than the industry yes men and the Whedon-ites to make it successful. It's going to take the average Joe Buffy watcher, who doesn't live and die because of what's said or not said on the internet.
Yes but these are suits we're talking about, none of whom have had even the slightest touch with reality in many years.

SA: Not an Alan Moore fan. I understand why a lot of people like him but I personally don't think much of him or what he writes about. Never could.
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Old 07-25-2005, 01:32 PM   #59
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AT: Yeah, I know about Alan Moore. The only things I really liked was Top Ten and the first arc of League. I couldn't get into the others. Watchmen doesn't age well past the 80's.

But somewhat lurching back on topic, now that DVDs are selling in my supermarket, it's a mass market/commodity deal. Niche will only take you so far with sponsors, and a Buffy movie wouldn't be that TV model at all. Execs know to make their numbers they need someone who can put the most butts in seats and get the impulse buy at Target and Best Buy. That's not Joss.

[DVD growth at 3%, Shrek 2 and Sharktales being aggressively remaindered, a cluttered marketplace means more LoTR/Harry Potter style stuff, a lot less Donnie Darko]

ETA: I wouldn't discount the horror, the horror, of Hillary Duff as Buffy. Bwahahahaha.
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Old 08-04-2005, 09:22 AM   #60
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*Joss called James about a Spike movie*

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