12-18-2005, 01:05 PM | #61 | |
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12-19-2005, 02:04 PM | #62 |
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It was asked earlier in the thread, so I had some free time and looked up the Angel credits for Fury and Minear.
FURY: wrote Lonely Hearts co-wrote Parting Gifts with Jeannine Renshaw wrote Disharmony wrote The Price wrote The House Always Wins co-wrote Awakening with Steven S. DeKnight wrote Salvage wrote Peace Out co-wrote Just Rewards with Ben Edlund co-wrote Destiny with Steven S. DeKnight wrote and directed You're Welcome wrote Power Play MINEAR: wrote Sense and Sensitivity co-wrote Hero with Howard Gordon wrote Somnambulist wrote The Prodigal co-wrote Sanctuary with Joss Whedon wrote Are You Now or Have You Ever Been wrote and directed Darla co-wrote The Trial with Douglas Petrie co-wrote Reunion with Shawn Ryan wrote Reprise wrote Epiphany wrote and directed Through the Looking Glass wrote That Old Gang of Mine co-wrote Billy with Jeffrey Bell wrote and directed Lullaby directed and co-wrote Couplet with Jeffrey Bell directed A New World wrote and directed Benediction wrote and directed Home |
01-18-2006, 01:07 AM | #63 |
Doyle<3hero(RIP, Glenn)
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Just quick here to point out now: It's not like B/A was a pairing from heaven. Infact, it was a pairing from depths of hell. It's easy to journey back and see Buffy never understood Angel and his grieving pain. All she could do was take him to depresso land. I was once a B/A shipper, but thanks to god I caught some AtS eps and became a fan of that show. I became a two-shipper for B/A-C/A but luckily after viewing BtVS s3 I finally understood how long-strechting story the Bangel romance had become. It was old and a whirlwind out of nowhere. Plus, if Buffy really loved Angel, she would've never dated Riley. Sleeping with Spike comes next and shows how meaningless Angel was to her.
Ok, to be pointing something out: Buffy hits Angel, no guilt, he hits her back, guilt and guilt = Joss is stupid. (Add to that, Buffy took advantage of Angel's 'Im sorry, Im sorry' panic. She was an absolute bitch in that episode and I was pissed off of how she acted like to Faith! ) The hard proof of Cordelia understanding Angel would be how she consoled him after Buffy died. Those are moments to treasure as C/A 'classic scenes' Tim Minear was probably trying to pluff himself on to Bangel shippers by underwriting Cordelia. Burrying her existence six foot into a ground. What he doesn't know that there are Cangel shippers out there who could badmouth him to hell. If only they'd let C/A become a major story, the show wouldn't go downhill like that. They should've never even brought Connor into the story and killed Darla off somewhere in the second season. Helping bring back the concentration on Cordy/Angel. After years of 'vampire and slayer's tragic romance story' we needed something different. Wow, my first post and I wrote it this long. I'm Rachelle, bytw, and in case there are confusions, it's pronounced Rashelle. :wave: Now that I have permission to upload my own av I'm heading off to Control Panel. |
01-19-2006, 11:35 AM | #64 | ||||
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01-22-2006, 09:57 PM | #65 | ||||
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Welcome to the board, Rachelle! I hope you enjoy yourself here.
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Honestly though, I don't have a issue with B/A... granted I was never a hardcore shipper, but IMO the ship had been played out by S3 of Buffy. Quote:
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I think starting up C/A, then refusing to follow through was a very big mistake. I don't know what the reasoning behind this was--whether the writers were all B/A shippers or whether they were afraid B/A fans would boycott the show or something, or--and this is pure fanwank on my part--they somehow believed that they had to make Cordy more like Buffy in order to make C/A plausible (we know this is B.S., but playing devil's advocate here). Hence "mellowing" Cordy to the extent that she lost the snark and "bite" she was known for in the earlier seasons, the demonization, and then the higher being plot. IMO it negated Cordy's original function as a character, to provide a "humanizing" influence in the words of Doyle. And as for Connor, just... ugh. Bad idea all around, bad execution, just... bad. I know some people don't agree with me, but I still contend that the minute Darla showed up pregnant was the minute the show jumped the shark. As for S4, well... we were beyond sharks then. It had jumped the continent. *thanks God for the first 2 1/2 seasons* |
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01-28-2006, 06:14 PM | #66 |
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I couldn't stand B/A so I was glad when they split into two shows. My problem is with the mentality some of the fans have about it being alright for Buffy to move to other love interests, but yet they got so upset when the writers tried to let Angel finally move on.
I don't know if this is true or not, but I read on another site that Joss proposed the C/A idea to David Greenwalt, and his initial response was "How can we do that to Buffy?" Since they had broken up for the 100th time at the end of BTVS S3, Buffy had already done the deed with Parker and Riley, and was starting things up with Spike. Angel had only had the one night with Darla. Greenwalt later then realized that it was actually a good idea. Whedon later claimed that the reason they backed off with C/A is because they got so much hate mail over it. As far as "Sanctuary" went, Angel had nothing to apologize for. He was trying to help someone who was mentally ill. He turned out to be right. I was so happy when Angel finally stood up for himself, and told her off. Unfortunately, they had him wuss out and apologize. I also agree about the crossovers being a big regression of the Angel character. He went from being the hero back to needing Buffy to fight his battles for him. Cordelia along with Doyle, Wesley, and the others helped to open Angel's eyes. On BTVS, while he helped out Buffy's friends, he never really seemed to care about them. He was only doing it for her. On ATS, he started helping people because it was the right thing to do. With Cordelia's help, he learned to care about the people he was helping. She made him want to be better. Their relationship also helped Cordelia to do alot of growing up as well. |
01-29-2006, 04:39 PM | #67 | ||
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It makes far more sense to have developed a relationship on Angel between characters who were on the show from day one instead of constantly catering to the fans of a pairing that was developed on another show. |
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01-29-2006, 06:01 PM | #68 | |
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besides, they convinced him he was God, so naturally he's going to cater to them
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01-30-2006, 08:38 AM | #69 | |
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01-30-2006, 10:53 AM | #70 |
Doyle<3hero(RIP, Glenn)
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Exactly what I'm talking about. I have no problem with Spuffy or B/R, but why can't Angel move on? He has a right to, y'know. To backdrop the idea C/A was a really stupid decision by Joss. At a point with seeing too much favors to B/A, I felt sick at my stomach and developed a great hate towards the show and character Buffy and the ship Bangel. But that was temporary, and I don't really care about that anymore. SMG saw it first, and I think that's the reason she refused to return as Buffy on 'The Girl In Question' I give a applaud to SMG for opening her eyes soon, if that really is the case.
(P.S, somebody find Joss' e-mail adress and post him the link to Stranger Things) B/A: Borrrrrinnngg C/A: |
01-30-2006, 10:57 AM | #71 |
Doyle<3hero(RIP, Glenn)
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Thanks for the welcome, bytw And, I owe God a big thank you for introducing me to Angel and making the light visible (lol :P)
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01-30-2006, 11:06 AM | #72 |
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She didn't return for "The Girl in Question" because she was in Japan filming "The Grudge." Sarah actually did an interview with one of those sci-fi magazines right after the cancellation where she said that she always felt bad for Angel because it was never allowed to get out of Buffy's shadow.
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01-30-2006, 09:47 PM | #73 |
Doyle<3hero(RIP, Glenn)
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I didn't watch 'The Grudge' but my brother did, and he said it was a god awful movie (was it?) See, even SMG understood Angel needed it's own space. What were they trying to prove with all those crossovers? First time, it's ok, it's dealing with a character from BtVS so somebody else would also come, BUT what was with the crossover in S4? The Beast, Jasmine or anything else happening in there wasn't any of the Scoobies concern. If only David Boreanaz would've demanded his show's space, Angel would still be here today. He could've threatened to quit, would've gotten Joss straightened out.
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01-31-2006, 08:15 AM | #74 | |
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01-31-2006, 09:53 AM | #75 |
Doyle<3hero(RIP, Glenn)
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Yeah, it's their show, it's called Angel not 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer show#2' If they sit around and do nothing, then the show's cancellation WAS necessary. The WB has way more important shows to spend money on than some kind of cheap reproduction appeareances.
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