Is Joss atoning?

[jean-vic]

Now, I know that title will irk a lot of you but it is a serious question. I only ask because of the lastest Issue of Angel: After the Fall. Now, be warned, this will contain spoilers.

Now, I have given it a read. It's a good issue but some things jumped out at me.

First of all I thought it was a return to form for Joss, elevating Spike above all others when it was revealed in the comic that Spike hs been saving a lot of people in Hell while Angel hasn't. (Ignoring the fact that he physically couldn't.) I started to get annoyed, but I read on. Then I came to the final page when an injured, demoralised Angel is stood before the Demon Lords. (Injured because Illyria knocked seven shades out of him and demoralised because he has just learned that Spike and Connor are friends, and Connor took Spike's side in an argument with Angel.)

Anyway, while things look all s**t for Angel again in favour of the blonded one, we get a nice bit of news that will delight all Angel fans and possibly drive all Spike fans to suicide. (I'm only kidding) Turns out, our favourite vampire Angel is no longer that. Apparently, he has shanshued. (This is not yet a definite.)

Is Joss making some good moves finally? Is he atoning for the character destruction of the last two seasons?

[Clarice]

I don't think, too little too late...
I have to read this new number still.

[tojoson]

Why is that good news?

If Angel got the Shanshu, he would no longer be viable as a kick-ass demon fighter, leaving Spike to take over the books entirely, which probably would please jass no end.

[jean-vic]

Originally Posted by tojoson

Why is that good news?

If Angel got the Shanshu, he would no longer be viable as a kick-ass demon fighter, leaving Spike to take over the books entirely, which probably would please jass no end.

The point is, he has been redeemed.

However, there is a theory that when Angel signed it away, he actually signed the right to make him human over to the Senior Partners and they have made him human so he can't help people. But hey, he floored Spike twice as a human.

I think it has something to do with Gunn as well. I think the comic will end with Angel giving up humanity in exchange for Gunn's vampirism.

[LordKain]

Originally Posted by Clarice

I don't think, too little too late...
I have to read this new number still.

I agee with you Clarice it's way to late whats done is done and you simply can't change the past and neither can Joss.

[Clarice]

Originally Posted by jean-vic

The point is, he has been redeemed.

However, there is a theory that when Angel signed it away, he actually signed the right to make him human over to the Senior Partners and they have made him human so he can't help people. But hey, he floored Spike twice as a human.

I think it has something to do with Gunn as well. I think the comic will end with Angel giving up humanity in exchange for Gunn's vampirism.

I never tought about it this way...quite interesting. Despite that, I don't know. I was - and still I am - disappointed of the narrative arc of season 4 and 5: Even if it's a gradual process, I can't see a valid purpose.
And if he is really human again - and if we have again the bangel at the end I'll burn all the comics - I hope he will not swap his humanity for Gunn's, who is the character more useless of the serie.

[nikkiwawa]

Well, being that this is a Cordy, C/A forum, I don't see any good news in th comics world, unless it involves Cordy and/or Cordy/Angel lol

If Angel is shanshued, that would totally suck, imo. What's he supposed to do after that? The comic is called ANGEL not effing SPIKE. Angel can't possibly shanshu. The comics would be over.

[jean-vic]

Originally Posted by Clarice

I never tought about it this way...quite interesting. Despite that, I don't know. I was - and still I am - disappointed of the narrative arc of season 4 and 5: Even if it's a gradual process, I can't see a valid purpose.
And if he is really human again - and if we have again the bangel at the end I'll burn all the comics - I hope he will not swap his humanity for Gunn's, who is the character more useless of the serie.

Oh, I don't want to see a return to B/A, but as he is my favourite character I am glad he has done it. Shame it was in such bad circumstances and shame he wll probably lose it.

What do you mean Gunn is useless? I thought there was a lot of Gunn love around.

[Clarice]

Well, being that this is a Cordy, C/A forum, I don't see any good news in th comics world, unless it involves Cordy and/or Cordy/Angel lol

Even if it wasn't a C.C.,Cordy, C/A forum - thank God this is - C/A is the canon.

If Angel is shanshued, that would totally suck, imo. What's he supposed to do after that? The comic is called ANGEL not effing SPIKE. Angel can't possibly shanshu. The comics would be over.

Unfortunately, it could be, if we think that the story of after the fall keeps going from numeber 1 to 6 and the other 6 numerbers will be about the last fight of NFA.

What do you mean Gunn is useless? I thought there was a lot of Gunn love around.

:°D Personally I think he was useless from the end of season 3...
About the Gunn love, I think I'm immune to his "charme". I'm so sad...

[jean-vic]

Originally Posted by nikkiwawa

Well, being that this is a Cordy, C/A forum, I don't see any good news in th comics world, unless it involves Cordy and/or Cordy/Angel lol

If Angel is shanshued, that would totally suck, imo. What's he supposed to do after that? The comic is called ANGEL not effing SPIKE. Angel can't possibly shanshu. The comics would be over.

How would Angel deal with being human? How would he fight? Would he fight? All interesting things that could be explored. What happens in regards to Angelus???

[Clarice]

Yeah, but without Cordy I'm not so interested like I was before. ç___ç
So, imo Joss can't redeem himself with this, because for me he throws away his good cards time ago. Yes, I read the comics but I prefer good fanfictions and I'm more satisfied.

[Syn]

Gunn is the best of them all. He finally offed Fred. I mean, someone was bound to do it, and since she totally treated him like shit, FOR NO REASON, I think she had it coming. 'Nuff said.



(that was only mildy sarcastic, I swear)

[jean-vic]

Yes, granted that it isn't the same without Cordelia, but I'm still holding out for the grand news that this is the big redemption. And then I hold out for the hope that she comes back one day and spends her new life with him.

[Livvie]

I don't think he has Shanshu'ed. Or even that The Powers or The Senior Partners had anything to do with it.

In another Lynch comic, he has a demon that can suck the powers from other demons, leaving them less than they were. And since they made Betta George canon, I am sure they will bring this demon in too. It is probably just a twist to get people talking about (and buying) the comics.

Angel said very clearly that he had mortal wounds. And despite being run through with knives and stabbed in the side, he got up and met the Lords of LA. If he was human, he couldn't have possibly survived, not even in Joss comic world, without going and getting healed by the things at W&H.

The Powers wouldn't Shanshu him because the prophecy is clear that it happens after his great battle. It isn't an advantage to make Angel human and make him fight in Hell. Shanshu is a reward, not a punishment.

The demons also said that Wolfram and Hart was clear about not killing Angel. They don't want him dead. So why make him human when they know he is a fighter. They know he is going to keep fighting and being human makes him dead, something they clearly don't want.

I think its just something to throw out false hope and then crush it next issue. That is what Joss is famous for, remember.

Besides, I don't think working as a champ in LA for 3 years (because let's face it, he didn't save many people in S4 or S5) is going to make up for the decades upon decades of evil that Angelus did. (And I am not counting Sunnydale years because Angel wasn't really a Champion yet and he wasn't working for The Powers.)

[jean-vic]

The Powers wouldn't Shanshu him because the prophecy is clear that it happens after his great battle. It isn't an advantage to make Angel human and make him fight in Hell. Shanshu is a reward, not a punishment.

What great battle? There is only one great battle that is shown to be coming one day and that is the one that kicks all demons off Earth and back into hell. All demon-kind gets sucked through, including the slayers because they are part demon. What chance do vampires have, and I'm sure Joss would rather give that humanity to Spike and leave Angel and Buffy to get sucked into hell. Check out Fray to see this.