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Old 07-04-2004, 01:29 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penny Century
Mistakes were made. I blame myself.
Ooh. Post passive exonerative.
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Old 07-04-2004, 02:25 PM   #32
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Thanks for the updates Kika and Florrie. I too feel bad for people who donated to the other campaign - if I were them, I'd be pretty pissed off at anyone who vouched for the other campaign and warned people against the ST/TDBUK one just because of, I don't know, ship affiliation or something stupid like that.

And Penny? Like a frikkin' elephant.

By the way Prima, I always find your posts clever, but maybe I'm just fluent in shorthand.
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Old 07-04-2004, 02:27 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by That*clown
Ooh. Post passive exonerative.
Hell yeah "ooh." Call me the Great Friggin' Communicator, baby.
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Old 07-04-2004, 02:28 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Penny Century
Not "could have," sugar. Just "chose to." There's a difference.

To each their own...sweety-pie.
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Old 07-04-2004, 02:32 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Platypus
I too feel bad for people who donated to the other campaign - if I were them, I'd be pretty pissed off at anyone who vouched for the other campaign and warned people against the ST/TDBUK one just because of, I don't know, ship affiliation or something stupid like that.
Or SavingAngel affiliation. Or something stupid like that.
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Old 07-04-2004, 03:35 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Platypus
By the way Prima, I always find your posts clever, but maybe I'm just fluent in shorthand.
I second.
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Old 07-04-2004, 04:16 PM   #37
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It's a shame what some people will do. IMO, this just screws everyone involved with the whole project. It's got to put them in a bad light whether they had any involvement in the unethetical use or not.

Glad I stayed as far away from that thing as possible, even happier that ST had no active (as a communiity) involvment; this just makes everyone involved with that whole organization suspect. I'm not saying that did anything wrong but I'd think they're online names/identites will always be linked with to this.

If nothing else no one I've met online suffers from ADD I imagine this will be remembered (although not with as much humor) as the Victoria Bitters of the world.

Pity really, then again shit does roll downhill so it's to be expected.
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Old 07-04-2004, 04:50 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Morrigan
It's a shame what some people will do. IMO, this just screws everyone involved with the whole project. It's got to put them in a bad light whether they had any involvement in the unethetical use or not.

Glad I stayed as far away from that thing as possible, even happier that ST had no active (as a communiity) involvment; this just makes everyone involved with that whole organization suspect. I'm not saying that did anything wrong but I'd think they're online names/identites will always be linked with to this.
To be fair, this whole thing, it went down months ago, though (the only thing is that Buffy.nu got a hold of it only now when somebody updated it.).

At least 3 different boards, including people from the other compaign, got in this guy's shit about it (you can check the archives at the Beta Bronze and a forum at Sparklies, it's still there), particularly Alyson, and just about everybody that was effected had their say. How this can effect those connected to saveangel is quite obvious but the damage was done. As for the other one that people like Lisa were part of, savingangel, *nothing* has been said against them and everything - the food drive, blood drive, etc. - people saw it all.

So months later, while I *do* get what you are saying, I don't see how suddenly they will be linked to it except for by rumors that those who, to be honest, have no clue whatsoever of what happened and want to be cute for whatever selfish reason saying shit. Since the internet operates like a game of telephone, that would just end up dragging people like Lisa's name through the mud when they did NOTHING wrong.
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Old 07-04-2004, 05:01 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Nirvana 1
So months later, while I *do* get what you are saying, I don't see how suddenly they will be linked to it except for by rumors that those who, to be honest, have no clue whatsoever of what happened and want to be cute for whatever selfish reason saying shit.
On this we agree. Talking shit about other people just to flog an agenda is just that: shit. Unfortunately, it happens all the time in this faaaaaandom, and the warring factions involved in the Un-cancel Angel campaign(s) comprise only one facet of it.

In that respect, it usually pays to know what the other person is talking about before one half-cocks both guns and allows a hobby horse to run away with hi/r. Again.
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Old 07-04-2004, 05:22 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Penny Century
On this we agree. Talking shit about other people just to flog an agenda is just that: shit. Unfortunately, it happens all the time in this faaaaaandom, and the warring factions involved in the Un-cancel Angel campaign(s) comprise only one facet of it.

...And the first step to soooooooooolving the problem is admitting it. Great!

Honestly, I haven't donated ANYTHING to ANYBODY. I have had no freaking money, computer problems where even if I had money and thought there was a chance it would be renewed would be afraid to send it. The most I did was send a couple postcards back in the wintertime to support my friend who was mailing them to send out. It would just really suck to see that Lisa who worked hard or Pepper or anybody else like her get crucified in the fandom because a few people want to gossip or hate the campaign or just have nothing better to do.

ETA (twice, damn WP)-

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In that respect, it usually pays to know what the other person is talking about before one half-cocks both guns and allows a hobby horse to run away with hi/r. Again.
Couldn't agree more...

Last edited by Nirvana 1; 07-04-2004 at 05:32 PM.
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Old 07-04-2004, 05:35 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Nirvana 1
...And the first step to soooooooooolving the problem is admitting it. Great!

Couldn't agree more...
And yet that whizzing sound you just heard was yet another point flying right over your ten-gallon hat. Forget it. Better yet, read the entire thread for something other than your own preemptive striking purposes.

Okay, do I have to say "Hitler!" now? 'Cause I'll say "Hitler!," if it'll help. Although invoking Snacky's Law would probably make it more interesting.
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Old 07-04-2004, 05:36 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Nirvana 1 So [i
months later[/i], while I *do* get what you are saying, I don't see how suddenly they will be linked to it except for by rumors that those who, to be honest, have no clue whatsoever of what happened and want to be cute for whatever selfish reason saying shit. Since the internet operates like a game of telephone, that would just end up dragging people like Lisa's name through the mud when they did NOTHING wrong.
Welcome to the real world that's kind of how it works. How many times have we heard the same crap pop up about CC having drug issues or being difficult on set? How many times have the "CC left to be with her baby" cries been repeated? Do you really think all of those people out there making these comments are anti-CC or sporting an agenda? Are they all out there to attack CC and ruin her name or are they just mis-informed?

Defend SaveAngel.org all you want. Defend Lisa and yourself and say you have no knowledge of what went down and that all of those people that went to other boards and came here to ST had no involvement. That they were just clueless sheep that got screwed over. It doesn't matter b/c people will believe what they hear and repeat what they know.

I'm not saying that anyone involved (other then the dude named) has done anything wrong. All I'm saying is that for most people who don't know better. Who weren't there first hand will believe what they want and that is pretty much that. And no offenece but why the hell should I or anyone else believe that they didn't? How do I know you're telling the truth? How do I know that the rumors being spread are false and malicious and that what you, Lisa, and BAfan are saying is true?

Now in all honesty I don't know what went down and frankly I don't give enough of a crap about it to spread rumors or to investigate. All I was saying is that when all you know of someone is their online identity then that's all they have in their favor. So if all someone knows you as the person from SA.org who kept coming to their board asking for money and then they find out that the money was used for personal gain rather then what they donated it for, well then for those people you're name might just be mud (right or wrong).

Perception is all you have in your favor in an online community and when you're perceived as being involved with something unethtical it doesn't matter what really went down, you're basically screwed. We see this all the time with politicians and celebs.

Do you really think that this fandom is somehow above human nature?
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Last edited by Morrigan; 07-04-2004 at 05:39 PM.
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Old 07-04-2004, 06:17 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Morrigan
Welcome to the real world that's kind of how it works. How many times have we heard the same crap pop up about CC having drug issues or being difficult on set? How many times have the "CC left to be with her baby" cries been repeated? Do you really think all of those people out there making these comments are anti-CC or sporting an agenda? Are they all out there to attack CC and ruin her name or are they just mis-informed?
Why are you talking to me like I don't know this happens? Yes, they were sporting an agenda. Whatever they were saying, they were wrong, obviously. That was stupid and slanderous of people, too. Why let it happen again? Why not try and stop it before it starts?

Quote:
Defend SaveAngel.org all you want. Defend Lisa and yourself and say you have no knowledge of what went down and that all of those people that went to other boards and came here to ST had no involvement. That they were just clueless sheep that got screwed over. It doesn't matter b/c people will believe what they hear and repeat what they know.
Oh for Chrissake, I am *not* defending SaveAngel, did you *see* what I said about Simon? I am not talking about people coming to this board, people getting screwed over! It's like everything I say is going out the other ear! I wonder if one actually read what I say instead of assuming I am going to say the extreme opposite of what they believe and prepair to tar and feather. Then again, Penny seems to think the same about me apparently, so...

Yes, he lied. Yes, he said bla bla "blood drive", bla bla this and that, it happened awhile ago, I know it, I freaking.watched.it.happen. But you know what didn't happen? SavingAngel, what my friend is a part of, get accused of using money unethically. In fact, they were some of the ones who gave him shit. SavingAngel, that is separate. And if they didn't get accused (SavingAngel) then, then why would they now? Or since the possibility exists that it can (apparently, but the only things I have seen were here), why not do what one can to prevent it now?

Just want to nip that in the bud.


Quote:
I'm not saying that anyone involved (other then the dude named) has done anything wrong. All I'm saying is that for most people who don't know better. Who weren't there first hand will believe what they want and that is pretty much that. And no offenece but why the hell should I or anyone else believe that they didn't? How do I know you're telling the truth? How do I know that the rumors being spread are false and malicious and that what you, Lisa, and BAfan are saying is true?
But *what* rumors about SavingAngel? Seriously? Who do you know of that complained or thought that their money was misused?

Pepper was the one who organised the ralley, Lisa I believe, is one of the main runners of the site and did the interview some time ago about it.

I do not think you are saying that at all. In fact, I agreed with you that it happens like that. However, but if people who weren't there first hand reads this or something else, they will also see who *did* do it and who didn't.

Quote:
Now in all honesty I don't know what went down and frankly I don't give enough of a crap about it to spread rumors or to investigate. All I was saying is that when all you know of someone is their online identity then that's all they have in their favor. So if all someone knows you as the person from SA.org who kept coming to their board asking for money and then they find out that the money was used for personal gain rather then what they donated it for, well then for those people you're name might just be mud (right or wrong).
So nothing then. And she isn't from SA.Org.

I didn't think you did care and I don't expect you to. But it was one campaign, *not* the other that my friend was apart of and I wanted to make that clear.

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Perception is all you have in your favor in an online community and when you're perceived as being involved with something unethtical it doesn't matter what really went down, you're basically screwed. We see this all the time with politicians and celebs.
Heh. I know that.

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Do you really think that this fandom is somehow above human nature?

Know what, I don't.

Honestly, I don't care about freaking agendas eventhough I know they exist. But I'll do what I can to defend my friends. Can you blame me?

ETA-

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penny Century
And yet that whizzing sound you just heard was yet another point flying right over your ten-gallon hat. Forget it. Better yet, read the entire thread for something other than your own preemptive striking purposes.
Doesn't help that half the time you and I are talking about 2 different things that are connected to the same subject. Is everybody so jaded that they come in sword first thinking somebody is out to get them, I wonder.

A slong as my friends don't look bad and that people know it wasn't them, that is all.

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Old 07-04-2004, 06:32 PM   #44
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[bemused]How on earth do you go from "..." to seeing an ungrounded attack on SavingAngel by people confusing it with SaveAngel? [/bemused]

I didn't see anyone, least of all Prima, casting any aspersions on "SavingAngel" as an organization. So who or what exactly are you defending, and why were YOU so quick to jump to what appears to be an ungrounded assumption?

For the record, I am fully aware of the fact that SaveAngel does not = SavingAngel. That doesn't mean I find other things or opinions in this thread don't merit comment, even if it is in the form of punctuation.
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Old 07-04-2004, 06:45 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Nirvana 1
Why are you talking to me like I don't know this happens? Yes, they were sporting an agenda. Whatever they were saying, they were wrong, obviously. That was stupid and slanderous of people, too. Why let it happen again? Why not try and stop it before it starts?
So quick to assume no one reads your posts and yet you don't bother to comprehend theirs. The point I made was that not everyone has an agenda and not everyone knows what happens. Sometimes people just repeat what they know. For better or worse.

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Oh for Chrissake, I am *not* defending SaveAngel, did you *see* what I said about Simon? I am not talking about people coming to this board, people getting screwed over! It's like everything I say is going out the other ear! I wonder if one actually read what I say instead of assuming I am going to say the extreme opposite of what they believe and prepair to tar and feather. Then again, Penny seems to think the same about me apparently, so...
Why yes we all live to tar and feather you. You're so important to our lives that we stay up late at night plotting ways to contradict everything you say. Hell I'm working off a cheat sheet right now.

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Yes, he lied. Yes, he said bla bla "blood drive", bla bla this and that, it happened awhile ago, I know it, I freaking.watched.it.happen. But you know what didn't happen? SavingAngel, what my friend is a part of, get accused of using money unethically. In fact, they were some of the ones who gave him shit. SavingAngel, that is separate. And if they didn't get accused (SavingAngel) then, then why would they now? Or since the possibility exists that it can (apparently, but the only things I have seen were here), why not do what one can to prevent it now?
I don't see anyone hear actually attacking your friend just you preemptively telling people not to. And I echo Platy's bemusement as to how "..." this turned into some sort of attack on "Lisa"

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Just want to nip that in the bud.
Why thank you for coming over here and going into a full out assault on people who never said shit about it in the first place. Way to be proactive.

Quote:
But *what* rumors about SavingAngel? Seriously? Who do you know of that complained or thought that their money was misused?
Dude it was a fucking example of how people have their own perceptions of what went down and it's doesn't mean every time this gets brought up it's going to be by someone who is "out to get them".

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I didn't think you did care and I don't expect you to. But it was one campaign, *not* the other that my friend was apart of and I wanted to make that clear.
Hmm I think this kind of goes back to Penny's comment about people with agenda talking shit doesn't it?

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Honestly, I don't care about freaking agendas eventhough I know they exist. But I'll do what I can to defend my friends. Can you blame me?
How are you defending your friends when you're the person that brought them into this in the first place? No one mentioned shit about anyone but Simon and what was posted at the start of the thread. You are the one naming other people.
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