The real Cordy in AtS S4?

[JoJo]

Season 4? Forget that. The last time I saw the real Cordy was before she went away on "vacation" with Groo. Whatever it was that came back with him, it wasn't Cordelia Chase.

I'm with Platypus on this one. The 'real' Cordelia went AWOL in mid S3 and didn't return until S5. What bugs me is that not one of her 'friends' seemed to notice the change in her personality.

It also fuels my theory that Groo and Fred were part of a conspiracy. Groo shows up just as Angel's about to declare his feelings, then whisks her away; meanwhile, Fred keeps both Wes and Gunn occupied and turns them against each other.

Yeah, that's it! Or, more prosaically, mid S3 is when David Greenwalt gave his notice, so Joss now had free reign to destroy a character he'd never liked and to build up his beloved Amy Acker's role.

BTW, Turkey Hill brand Dutch Chocolate and/or Cookies n' Cream.

[jean-vic]

IMO, the last time we see the Real Cordelia is during Spin the Bottle.

I have spent many an hour working this out because AN just... ugh!! So I've kinda worked it out.

Cordelia is Cordelia on the higher planes but Jasmine is taking over. Cordelia returns and it is her but without any palpable memories of her friends, except the knowledge that she loved Angel. Lorne does the spell which, as was revealed in 'Inside Out,' wakes Jasmine up. From then on it is all Jasmine for me.

Everything she does and says after that is all carefully thought out. Jasmine can't go off and say she doesn't love Angel when he knew damn well she did so she says she loves him. She goes in search of the beast with Connor so he sees where the Beast rises and it makes him guilty. With the gang distracted by the beast, Jasmine makes her move on a deeply saddened Connor, using the end of the world as an excuse. She then acts like nothing has happened to keep up appearances and make Connor hate Angel even more. Then it keeps spiralling from there until the gang realise and Jasmine gets a new body.

As backup to all this:

Skip: That is the real Cordelia. Well, she's in there somewhere.
Angel: Is it Cordelia or not?
Skip: Oh, it's her. She just ain't driving.

Plus, Cordelia's obvious sadness when she wakes up from the coma whenever the year prior is mentioned shows that she hates the thought of it.

Plus, how can any of you accuse Cordelia of sleeping with Connor willingly? As if she would! End of the world or not, she wouldn't do that! First off, she wouldn't have run away from Angel and his deeds as Angelus would not have put her off. She knew what he had doen and accepted. She knew the difference. She was in love with Angel, not Angelus and she always viewed them as separate, not one.

So that's my theory.

[DamnSkippy]

Originally Posted by jean-vic

Plus, how can any of you accuse Cordelia of sleeping with Connor willingly?

I can't find anyone here who did and I doubt there's anyone on this board who believes that. So what are you referring to?

[jean-vic]

People, you included, said she slept with him but did't completely understand why. Maybe I have interpreted what you've said wrong. If so I apologise.

Besides, there was so much more in that post and that's what you talk about? lol. All that work for nothing!!!!

Kidding!

[Angelsgirl1211]

Season 4???

Season 4 never happened!! Cordy did not turn evil and do the horrid things you all are implying!! Nope == never even heard of season 4/



***yes I live in the world of denial. And I love it here too!!**

[DamnSkippy]

Originally Posted by jean-vic

People, you included, said she slept with him but did't completely understand why. Maybe I have interpreted what you've said wrong. If so I apologise.

Yes, you did misinterpret my post. I said Jasmine, after SPTB was gradually growing in power. I don't for a second believe it was the real Cordy who slept with Connor, but Jasmine exerting her power at the time. I do not, however, believe Jasmine was in control 100% of the time after SPTB. She as much as admitted she needed time to grow in power (see my quote in my post), so it makes sense to me, in light of the inconsistency in Cordy's behavior up until Lilah was killed, that she ebbed and flowed in power, taking over Real!Cordy at times and when Real!Cordy got back to consciousness she could not understand what was happening to her and why she had done the things she (re Jasmine) had done.

But it's all moot, since the writer's themselves didn't know what they were writing at the time, hence the inconsistencies in Cordy's character. We're all just speculating since no one, especially not the writers, know what the real truth is.

And I chose that to comment on because it was the one thing in your post I had an issue with.

[Jaime Bee]

Originally Posted by DamnSkippy

Considering the writers can't explain what they were doing in S4, it really is open to all kinds of interpretation. Although Fury states in his comments on YW that S4 Cordy wasn't her at all, so at least he believes she was Jasmine the moment she returned.

From the way it was portrayed, my impressions are:
1. Amnesia Cordy was a blank slate - just a being who had no memories so it wasn't Real!Cordy or Evil!Cordy.
2. After STB, Jasmine and Real!Cordy are stimulated into consciousness. R!C is freaked and doesn't understand what's happening inside her not to mention all the information she gained as a higher being and Jasmine is too weak to completely take over.
3. I think the moment she tells Angel she loves him but she can't be with him right now is the R!C and she's just too confused to really know what to do. This, IMO, is the Buffy-can't-feel syndrome being repeated. Back from the higher planes, she doesn't feel right and doesn't know how to handle it not realizing that the feelings she's having are Jasmine exerting her influence.
3. Gradually Jasmine is able to take control at moments, one of these moments being sleeping with Connor. The next morning, judging by Cordy's reaction to having slept with Connor, R!C is back in control and horrified by what's happening to her but still is too scared and confused to know what to do.
4. I can't tell exactly when Jasmine is in complete control, but she grew stronger quickly once she was "conceived" and is in full control by the time Evil!Cordy kills Lilah. This is supported when Jasmine says something like "if only it was a few weeks later" when she's trying to stop Willow implying she would be stronger the further along in the pregnancy. So it makes sense that she was rather weak in the very beginning and gained strength after conception and her corporeal form was developing.
5. Also her clothes and hair color are an indication of the gradual control Jasmine gains. As Jasmine gets stronger, Cordy's hair gets darker and her clothes get more...well...fugly.

And Pralines and Cream is the best ice cream every created!

I agree with this.

[BiteMeAngel]

Originally Posted by LaLa247

Fuck that, have any of you actually tried Edy's Espresso Chip ice cream? It's like buttah, people. Like BUTTAH.

When you first quoted you liked Coffee Ice Cream, I thought you were being clever cuz I saw the name, "Will" and GASPED, 'Alias fan??'


but i agree with u...yuuuuuuuummy!!!!!

[tootyfnfruity]

maybe after stb but not sure about when Jasmine took controll, but was disappointed that Angel (Liam) and Cordy didn;t get more up close and personal and heavy with the *smoochies* during stb.
ANd i happen to go for B&J Chunky Monkey and Wavy Gravy

[Bert]

Originally Posted by Bert

Guys, guys, guys, none of you are doing this right.

What you need is to get plain old regular raspberry ripple ice cream, get a few scoops into a glass, and then pour over some coca-cola. Add a spoon, and you've got heaven.

Mmm!

This is still good stuff, guys.

[samsmom]

Nothing beats a classic -

root beer over vanilla ice cream.

[Luna]

I also think it wasn´t Cordy anymore when she came back in season 4. After Lornes spell Jasmines control got stronger but when she got pregnant she was only Jasmine, there was nothing left of Cordy anymore. It could also possible that her spirit wasn´t in her body anymore then, that explains the coma after giving birth. And when her spirit came back one last time, her body could finally die.

[Shadow4Corangela]

Originally Posted by Bert

Guys, guys, guys, none of you are doing this right.

What you need is to get plain old regular raspberry ripple ice cream, get a few scoops into a glass, and then pour over some coca-cola. Add a spoon, and you've got heaven.

Mmm!

I'll have to try that someday. sounds yummy!

Jamoca ice cream is my fav..w/ mint chocalte chip a close second.

[tootyfnfruity]

Originally Posted by samsmom

S4 sucked liked a giant sucking thing. I hate what they did to CC, from the horsesh** storyline to the fucktastic clothes they made her wear. The *only* thing I find palpable about that season of suck was Angel's pain and jealousy after Apocolypse Nowish or Rain Of Fire or whatever it was called. I'll never truly forgive the other characters for not seeing how Cordy was drowning right in front of them.

But, from a narrative perspective, I tend to go with Damnskippy's assessment. Cordy was in there but blanketed, saying and doing things she couldn't control and being so confused by it, until she conceived Jasmine.
She must have been screaming inside when she was telling Angel she held his past against him, because even after being on the front lines of his rampage in SD, you know she didn't feel that way.

I love the glimpse of the real Cordy in Angel's perfect day dream, because it shows he loves her for the same reasons we do.

And apparently he has some sort of fantasy about her clothes getting ripped off a little at time.

you know the real cordy would have not been caught dead in the majority of that crap that was supposed to be her wardrobe in s4, pregnant or not.

[bigbird811]

Though many people don't make the distinction between Cordy and Evil!Cordy/Jasmine, I always did. I watched season three as closely as a fan could, and just trying to compare that Cordy with s4 Cordy didn't match up. I immediately knew something was wrong with her, something definitely wacko. And the C/C storyline did nothing but confirm my suspicions. Cordy was being controlled by something of the freaky and evil variety. I conclude my opinion with this: We see the last of the real Cordy sometime before Apocalypse Nowish. Though that's just me.

And vanilla and chocolate still beat strawberry. Always. Forever.