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Old 10-01-2005, 04:27 PM   #16
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Most B/Aers that I've encountered deny C/A even exists. In their view, Buffy only ever loved Angel, and Angel only ever loved Buffy. One even once referred to C/A as incest (because Angel and Cordelia were supposedly more like brother and sister.)

The crazy stuff was discussed on another thread, but just to give you the short version:
1.) Angel called out Buffy's name in Awakening, because he was really fantasizing about her while making love to Cordelia in the dream.
2.) The Beast's eyes were in the shape of Buffy and Angel's rings.
3.) During one scene, Buffy and Angel making love could be seen in the eyes of the Beast.
4.) Connor is some how really Buffy and Angel's son.
5.) During one of the scenes in "I Will Remember You" Angel called Buffy "Sarah."
6.) When Angel and company are coming back through the portal in "There's No Place Like Plrtz Glrb" they passed Buffy who had just done her dive at the end of "The Gift."


On another site I explained to a harcore B/Aer why I like C/A, and what I didn't like about B/A. She kept referring to it as my interpretation of the facts, though I was calling exactly what I saw. Example, Andrew tells Angel at the end of "Damage" that Buffy doesn't trust him anymore because he works for Wolfram and Hart. She just assumes that Andrew was lying, and "Buffy would never say that." I counter with, why would Andrew lie in that situation? I could understand him lying if he had a pre-existing grudge against Angel. But because, it was never addressed in the script, we have to go by what was presented on the screen. The storyline indicated that Angel and Andrew had never even met before. In "Shells" Giles refused to send Willow to help save Fred, because they still worked for Wolfram and Hart. To me that backs up what Andrew said about them not trusting Angel's group anymore.

Last edited by brownsbros3; 10-01-2005 at 04:30 PM.
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Old 10-02-2005, 10:36 AM   #17
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Guys, cool it with the sweeping generalizations about "'shippers," m'kay? There's still a rule against it, and it's there for a reason.

kthxbye.
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Old 10-02-2005, 02:18 PM   #18
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Quote:
5.) During one of the scenes in "I Will Remember You" Angel called Buffy "Sarah."
Wasn't there a horrible geocities website dedicated to the line 'Please, Sarah, Please'? Complete with fanfiction and all?
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Old 10-07-2005, 11:00 AM   #19
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I most definetly fall in to the "best friends to lovers" category. Cordy/Angel was the first pairing i ever seriously shipped and it was because i loved the idea of two friends who were always there for each other, supported and trusted each other above all others and knew each other inside out eventually taking that last step and falling in love. To me any good relationship simply must be built on a basis of friendship and trust or it will never survive.

And so it is with that idea in mind that i ship my current OTP - Harry/Hermione from the Potterverse. From book 1 we have seem them grow close, be there for each other no matter what and form an unshakeable bond. She is the voice he hears in his head, his conscience if you like. And he is and always will be her number one prioroty. They are clearly the most important people in each others lives. They have the type of relationship that, if embarked upon, would likely last forever. R/Hr and H/G have no depth, no substance and both stink of a teenage crush. So call me delusional if you like (hey, JKR did!) but it will always be H/Hr for me.

Of course i do also favour exceptions to the rule. The main ones being Luka/Abby (ER) and Ryan/Marissa (The O.C). These couples are angsty and screwed up but it doesn't stop me rooting for them because deep down i feel they have "it" and will ultimately be together in the end. The dazzling chemistry between Goran/Maura and Ben/Mischa respectively makes them a joy to ship and helps keep me hoping they will eventually get their happy ending. Because, let's face it, they've both been through enough crap to last a lifetime and truly deserve it.

And here endeth my rambling.
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Old 10-11-2005, 09:47 PM   #20
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Personally, I've never been able to understand how attached people can get to T.V. romance. I can admit that certain relationships are handled better than others. But, their still intangible, with no practical application.
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Old 02-03-2006, 11:56 AM   #21
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I definitely fall under the category of 'Friends first' because that's a foundation. It is roots to a beautiful romance story growing. I have never argued with a B/A shipper. I was never even friends with a B/Aer during my shipping for them, because I saw myself as the only one making 'sense' over there. While I was normally shipping them, giving out ideas for a AU logical 'friends first (I am seriously under that CTG)' fic, they were backsiding me saying 'B/A were never friends, they are star-crossed lovers who were like 'love at first site'' For me, B/Aers were an example of too much Romeo+Juliet reading, and while I still liked the ship, I always thought B/Aers were crazy.

I never felt any cheerfulness in B/A's whole ship, but I liked the romantic vibe, which disappeared after I watched s3. So, seriously, how unrealistic was that? The show became revolved around the angst, grief, torturing, painful, tragic love of vampire and slayer and that's where I backed off. It was all nonsense and I didn't watch for receiving 1 hour of romantic bullshit.

Now, what attracted me to C/A was the cheerfulness and how Cordelia always made Angel either smile, laugh or simply make him confident. Looking back on 'Judgement' you can see and treasure a true friendship moment in there after Angel kills that good demon thinking he was bad. I mean, just recount those C/A scenes in your head, you will find very few where Cordy didn't make Angel either smile or smirk. I can't list out all the moments, but here are the few that are the most special.

*Cordy raises the confidence in Angel after he kills that good demon thinking he was bad-Judgement.
*Cordy says 'I love you' to Angel and that makes him smile and she tells him to keep doing that-Dead End.
*Angel goes crazy and impatient when Cordy gets sucked into Pylea-Through The Looking Glass
*Angel wears color for Cordy and she gets all cheerful and happy. They both share a hug
*Angel dreams that he and Cordy are together at Thanksgiving, and they even get close enough for a kiss before Connor complaints like a kid to a MOM and DAD-Deep Down

If you have more, add along.
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Old 02-03-2006, 08:03 PM   #22
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Cordelia brought out the best in Angel. With Buffy the entire relationship was focused on her, so he never had the chance to see if he could be more than just a vampire. With Cordelia, she inspired him to be more than what he was. On BTVS, Angel wasn't a champion, he was little more than Buffy's boyfriend. On ATS, he proved he could be a bad ass superhero.
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Old 02-03-2006, 11:09 PM   #23
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Completely agreeing with you Brownbros3. It was always either about Buffy's pain over the whole Angelus thing or how she and her friends handle it. Did the writers ever stop and think what Angel must be going through? Bloody 100 years spent in hell, he should've hated Buffy the minute he came out of there.

And there's no argument on this, even with the most hardcore B/A fan ever, Cordelia is forever the heart of Angel Investigations.
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Old 02-04-2006, 12:35 PM   #24
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Completely agreeing with you Brownbros3. It was always either about Buffy's pain over the whole Angelus thing or how she and her friends handle it. Did the writers ever stop and think what Angel must be going through? Bloody 100 years spent in hell, he should've hated Buffy the minute he came out of there.
Yup. He terrorized Buffy and her friends for months; she sent him to hell. How can anyone possibly think that they could have a romantic relationship after that?

Cordelia brought out the best in Angel.
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Old 02-04-2006, 04:15 PM   #25
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It was on both sides. I was not engrossed or crying when I saw Angel and Buffy's meeting after his return from hell, I laughed at the illogicality in the scenes. In real life DB and SMG would kick each other's asses.

Like I said, Cordelia is the heart of AI and the keeper of Angel's heart (How can anybody possibly miss that fact on Angel?)
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Old 02-04-2006, 04:28 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by CA4eva
Like I said, Cordelia is the heart of AI and the keeper of Angel's heart (How can anybody possibly miss that fact on Angel?)
Hm, denial?

It's annoying. It's as if we were saying "Angel never loved Buffy!"

Pffft.
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Old 02-05-2006, 12:49 AM   #27
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Yeah. It's absolutely ridiculous. Angel loved Buffy a hell of a lot, and he will always love Buffy, just not THAT way. He will love her like a friend. B/A shippers need to understand that and move on. They can still write fanfiction about it, make fanart, whose stopping them?

It's losing for either side of us here, because Angel is cancelled and I doubt the gang will survive all those hellbeasts coming for them. The Girl In Question made me cheer for Buffy, who has logically told the two vamps to move on, and also made me hate Angel a little bit. I was like screaming at my tv "Hey, jackass, what happened to your love for Cordelia?!" And that's when I realized, Angel and Spike are both love's bitches (lol) No, no, actually they're Buffy's bitches.
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Old 02-05-2006, 10:15 AM   #28
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I had never watched Buffy before I started watching Angel, and while I watched Angel, I didn't really have the biggest concept of the apparent, "love" that he and Buffy had shared in the previous years before Angel. All I really got, was the good relationship between Cordy and Angel. And that was pretty much it for me. I thought the chemistry was amazing, the way the characters, and actors play off of one another. Then, the unthinkable happened, and Joss and co. ruined everything. And that was when I started watching Buffy a little bit, deciding that Angel was pissing me off too much to concentrate on anything else.

I respect B/A and what they had, for only those first 3 seasons of Buffy, after that it was over. Get over it. She was young, and he was basically emotionally young just like her. It was one giant angst fest, with a few nice gooey scenes thrown in that I happened to like. The concept of a slayer and a vampire is romantic, and tragic, and all that Romeo and Juliet crap, but it doesn't last. I mean, hello! Romeo and Juliet went freakin' psycho and killed themselves. I love the character of Buffy, I adore the character of Angel. I love them to much, to put them together. It basically destroys them. At the end of their relationship almost bringing out the worst in each other.

I will like any ship, as long as it makes sense, isn't really icky, and isn't purely, lovey-dovey eyes. C/A was great because it developed, B/A saw each other for like, what, 2 months and then they were making out in Buffy's window. This was why I filled with emotional rage, when they destroyed C/A on the show. Basically forgot about the whole relationship like it never existed, and said, "Eh, too many people like B/A online, so we won't do it on the show". Screw that. Okay, word rant done.
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Old 02-05-2006, 01:03 PM   #29
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During the first part of season five it was like they were not only trying to erase C/A, but Cordelia herself from the show's history. They did slightly better after "You're Welcome" with name drops in "A Hole in the World", "Shells', and "Not Fade Away," and stock footage in "Origin" and "Power Play." One of the reasons I didn't like "Smile Time" was that Wesley, one of Cordelia's closest friends, was encouraging Angel to pursue Nina two weeks after Cordelia died. I know that "Why We Fight" and "Smile Time" were originally written to coincide with their original plan for the 100th episode, which involved Buffy returning instead of Cordelia. But they could have gone back and put something about Cordelia's death sooner than the episode that aired three weeks after the fact.

Whedon and Minear have claimed that the reason they never went through with making Cordelia and Angel an official couple was because it was unpopular. On BTVS, they received alot of backlash over Willow and Tara yet they got parts of three seasons together. They stuck with it, and they eventually won folks over. Buffy and Riley was also largely unpopular, and they got a year together. Buffy and Spike was a mixed response with a significant number of viewers not liking that pairing, yet they were still given the final two seasons together. I don't see why they couldn't have given C/A a chance.

Whedon told TV Guide that the reason they did not bring Charisma back for seaosn five was because they did not have anything left for her to do. That was crap.

1.) They didn't anything for Gunn, Lorne, Harmony, or even Wesley to do for most of season five. It was the Angel, Spike, and Fred show.

2.) There were plenty of things that could have been with Cordelia. Here are five of my ideas.

a.) Cordelia and the gang could deal with the things that happened while Jasmine was in possession of her body.
b.) Cordelia and Angel could work on getting their relationship back to where it was before Connor entered the picture.
c.) They might actually start investigating her demon side further, which is something that she have been done in the episode after "Birthday."
d.) Since Angel was the CEO (Chief Executive Officer) of Wolfram and Hart, make Cordelia the CFO (Chief Financial Officer). She handled the money for AI anyway, so why not let her take the next step up the ladder?
e.) In a play on shows like the Bachelor and Joe Millionaire, have Buffy and Cordelia compete for Angel's affection, or Angel and Spike compete for Cordelia.
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Old 02-05-2006, 05:00 PM   #30
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Good ideas Brown. I like the idea of a reality show competition.

You're right about the Angel, Spike 'n Fred show. It's a shame that Wesley was sidelined for so much of the season. They should have explored the Watcher's Council's suspicions - Wesley would have been a perfect character to focus on for a good angstly arc. Maybe have Giles offer him a job in the reconstituted Council, torn loyalties, etc.

You're right about Gunn and Lorne being useless, but I always thought Gunn was a fifth wheel once the beige!Angel arc ended, and Lorne had no real purpose once Caritas was destroyed. At least Harmony answered Angel's phone.

I wish Whedon had defied the Bangels and gone with C/A. (I still don't buy that they were a major part of Angel's fanbase.
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