Register Control Panel Search FAQ/Help/Guide Memberlist Forum Calendar The Stranger Things Store Home Stranger Things Home

Go Back   Stranger Things Forum > Main > The Cordyverse
FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-22-2005, 12:37 PM   #1
galathea
 
galathea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 136
Why do we *ship*?

Maybe you had this discussion before .. if so, just shut this one

Recently I had one of these in length discussions with a die hard B/A fan and I thought it rather funny that we shared a lot of similar feelings and interpretations towards the series and the characters in general and only clashed when it came to *ships*. The amount of denial and re-interpreting she did whenever it came to anything remotely connected to C/A was simply amazing and made me feel she saw a totally different series.

I was wondering how it comes that we pick a certain *ship* and make it our own. Does it all come down to personal experiences and preferences? Are we able to enjoy a ship that doesn't fit in our personal views on relationships? And why is it that shippers tend to defend their ship so fiercly .. that they take anything you say against it as a personal attack, as if they discuss a matter of real events? I am not free of that notion .. there are times when the stubborness of people can make me furious and I am kind of lost when I think about why it affects me so greatly.

Any thoughts?
galathea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2005, 02:29 PM   #2
QueenC4707
 
QueenC4707's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 71
I remember a while back I was bored and made a jokey list about shippers. In my travels thru Internet fandoms, I have noticed that people's shipping tastes tend to learn toward similar "types." Of course there are exceptions to every rule but I thought you might find my list amusing:

1. The love-hate shipper: Tends to go for constantly warring couples and believes that under the supposed hatred lies a burning passion just waiting to come out. Tends to treat fanwank with a sense of humor but are not immune to engaging in it.
Tends to like: Buffy/Spike, Cordy/Xander, Logan/Veronica, Pacey/Joey

2. The masochistic shipper: Loves uber-angsty superromantic fotevahh-luff ships. Has an endless tolerance for 'ship-induced pain and also and endless willingness to argue about why their ship is fotevahh luff.
Tends to like: Buffy/Angel, Max/Liz, Clark/Lana (Smallville, not the comics-2 totally diff. things!)

3. The best-friends shipper: Goes for the best-friends-turned-lovers kind of vibe. Generally are pretty mellow laid-back people on boards but will wank if dragged into it.
Tends to like: Buffy/Xander, Dawson/Joey, Angel/Cordelia, Clark/Lana (in the comics)

4. The mixed-bag shipper: This person doesn't have a clear "profile" and usually picks 'ships for reasons that have more do with chemistry between the actors or that certain "something" that isn't easy to explain. But it grabs you.
Tends to like: anything with pretty people, great chemistry, and good writing
* ^this would be me

Please note that this list is all in fun. I know the generalizations I made about the shippages might piss some people off, so I hope you will not be offended. It's just me being silly. There are exceptions to every rule and I would be one of them. I think I ship a couple from each of those lists, excepting possibly the masochistic shipper, 'cause even I don't have that much tolerance for pain. Is it bad if I say I'm a Max/Liz S1 shipper? 'Cuz S2 of Roswell made me want to smack the crap out of both of them...

But I get off the subject. When i choose my ships, I usually look for a combo of fantastic chemistry between the leads, an interesting story, and overall great writing. One of the big turnoffs of B/A was for me the overblown purple prose (which is why the scene in "The Zeppo" and Cordy and Wes's reenactment amuse me so much) and the zero-to-fotevahh-luff in the span in half of a half-season thing. I guess SMG and DB had chemistry but it wasn't like the OMGZ-incinerate-your-screen chemistry I've seen with other couples. I think that's why I shipped Max/Liz in spite of the pain I knew I was in store for. They had that "it" thing for me that B/A never did. But for the most part I tend to prefer more realistic ships (on an emotional scale that is, how realistic as a vampire and a seer, lol) with a more absorbing backstory than luff-at-first-sight and such. This is why I do seem to like the oil-and-waterish ships, but as I said above there are exceptions. I guess it depends on the story and that "it" factor I am having so much trouble describing.

Allright, enough word vomit for now, i'm starting to confuse myself.
__________________
.: Artage :: Word Vomit :: Collective :.
QueenC4707 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2005, 06:19 PM   #3
starbuck42084
Vision Girl
 
starbuck42084's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 334
For me, personally, I tend toward 'ships that evolve over time. The best friends that eventually fall in love.......Mulder/Scully, Luke/Lorelai, and Angel/Cordy (of course). There's just something so romantic about that to me, I don't know why. I guess because I don't believe in love-at-first-sight and I think that the lasting relationships are first built on friendship and trust. I know, I'm a sap.
__________________
"If the burden seems to much to bear: Remember: The end will justify the pain it took to get us there."--Relient K, Let It All Out

"Ahem. Ladies is pimps too. Go'on brush your shoulders off."



I survive on the breath you are finished with...
starbuck42084 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2005, 08:21 PM   #4
lost_akasha
Cultural Infidel
 
lost_akasha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Southwest of Disorder
Posts: 5
Interesting question, and some great perspectives.

These are strictly my opinions, so I'll say it up front to avoid beginning every sentence with "I think..."

I tend to ship couples that have 'legs'; that is to say, some kind of staying power that keeps me interested as a writer. Some 'ships have very finite limits, despite what the characters' creators would like the fans to believe for the sake of the profit margin of the franchise.

For me, it comes down to two things:

1) There's got to be at least a shred of plausibility that can hold up under moderate scrutiny. For example, how long will a 250-year-old with several generations of social and sexual experience stay besotted with a 16-year-old? Probably forever. Okay, you got me there. (See Celine Dion & Co.) Regardless, that pairing is a diversion until somebody gets bored/grows up. Svengali storylines aren't rich enough to keep writing over time.

On the flip of that, I can see why Spuffy folks would keep shipping after the 'attempted rape' scene, even though JW pronounced that Spike lost his right to a sexual relationship with Buffy after that. That contrivance always felt false and convenient and if I shipped them I'd ignore JW's PC pandering too. (Jeez, and I agree with him! Yeeks!)

2) Sparks must fly. If the ship isn't hot to me, I won't ship them. If the actors don't click, I am incapable of shipping them, no matter what the creators would have me do. Example: I can ship B/A up to Pangs/IWRY. After that, sayonara kiddies. (Damaged!Buffy and Puffy!Angel just don't rev me.)

Aside to the DB diehards: I can see this happening with Bones. There may be lots of zippy banter between Brennan and Booth, but I don't feel any real heat there -- yet. But I feel something hot with Angela, both with Booth & Brennan individually. Together? Meh. Pretty sure that ain't gonna be canon.

I've ranted long enough. Thanks for the fun discussion!

Last edited by lost_akasha; 09-23-2005 at 07:09 AM.
lost_akasha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2005, 10:29 AM   #5
galathea
 
galathea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 136
Thx for the insightful replies ...

Before C/A I only had one real ship ( in terms of being mad for the couple and read tons of fanfic) and that was John and Delenn from Babylon 5. If I think about it now, they have a lot in common with C/A, so QueenC might be right and there are several types of shippers. Which means I am attracted to slowly developed friends to lovers relationships. Though I had a short period where I liked B/A too, but that stopped after I saw Sanctuary and then rapidly C/A won me over and I didn't look back ever since.

What's new for me though are shipper wars since John and Delenn had no pairings with other characters on the show. What really bugs me is the rage such discussions are able to evoke in people. I mean most people are totally able to discuss the shanshu prophecies for example in a civilized manner but when it comes to pairings people start flaming and act as if they are threatend. Is it a case of overidentifikation with the couple?
galathea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2005, 10:59 AM   #6
Dannyblue
a.k.a. Danielle
 
Dannyblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,147
I can like any kind of 'ship, although I tend to like the love-hate type the least. It can be good fun for a while, but it starts to get old.

The same is true of the angst-driven 'ships. I can like them for a while, but tend to lose interest. But I love this kind of things in short bursts. (A good, romantically angsty movie, for example.) But I burn out if it goes on for too long.

I definately prefer the 'ships that start with friendship and grow over time. I guess it's because I can see them lasting, and I like seeing relationships where the characters bring out the best in each other. (As C/A did.) I guess some find angst and pain, and suffering for love, very romantic. But I like the kind of romance where the relationship is the best part of a person's life, rather than the most painful and torturous.

Of course, if there's no chemistry between the actors/characters, nothing else matters. So it starts with the chemistry, and grows from there.
__________________
IMAGIC. My LiveJournal, where you'll find my fanfiction, fanart, etc.
Dannyblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2005, 07:20 PM   #7
MsT05
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 55
This is a good one.

Originally, I thought I was maybe the "friendship-to-romance" shipper. But if I think about my ships overall, that's not it. I need to see sparks, chemistry, a potential for some serious passion, and a tenderness and respect for the other person. Also, I notice that my ships actually have the potential to become quality adult relationships. Which is apparently a huge NO-NO in television writing. Angel/Cordy done right. Would have been incredible. The chemistry between CC and DB was off the chain. Their romantic relationship could have fed enough stories for two more seasons, IMO.

While i enjoyed B/A for awhile, the back and forth juvenile nature of Buffy killed it for me. Then proceeded to kill my desire for any of her other relationships to work out (Riley, Spike).

Obviously, I am always the most unsatisfied tv viewer (Chloe/Clark, Cordy/Angel). I think i am too practical and unangsty-romance for tv writers. Occasionally, i get a fantasy ep and well, that's rarely satisfying long term.

Quote:
I can see why Spuffy folks would keep shipping after the 'attempted rape' scene, even though JW pronounced that Spike lost his right to a sexual relationship with Buffy after that. That contrivance always felt false and convenient and if I shipped them I'd ignore JW's PC pandering too.
I don't think i've had the chance to comment on this before. So I'll take the opportunity now. You are very right, it was contrived. One of my other issues was how Spuffy began in the first place. Hello?? They brought down a HOUSE. There were scenes following that showing that violence continued to be a part of there sexual relationship. Yes, we can go through the "no means no" but I don't see where either one of them listened to that before. Plus, at that point hadn't we scene Buffy beat the living crap out of Spike? *shrug* That scene just pissed me off.

Quote:
Aside to the DB diehards: I can see this happening with Bones. There may be lots of zippy banter between Brennan and Booth, but I don't feel any real heat there -- yet.
You are not alone. DB's mojo is working, the Brennan chick? Needs some serious work. I don't understand how any straight woman could work that close to DB and not want to rub on him. Brennan is ice cold and seriously mucking up the flow of the show and what they seem to be heading for.

Quote:
Is it a case of overidentifikation with the couple?
If someone comes up with a plausible answer to this I'd love to hear it. Internet fandoms often strike me as incredibly insane. I mean I know I HATE Clana. But you are not going to catch me attacking Clana lovers, trolling their sites spouting my hate, etc. Ship on, I dont have to understand it, and it doesn't change my ship. The S/A folks on another board I used to visit were insane. I couldn't understand why they couldn't recognize that Angel and Buff had outgrown each other. I wasn't going to try to convince them, I'd just wished they had respected my ship the way I did theirs.

Last edited by MsT05; 09-23-2005 at 07:44 PM.
MsT05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2005, 12:00 PM   #8
JoJo
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 217
Quote:
I don't think i've had the chance to comment on this before. So I'll take the opportunity now. You are very right, it was contrived. One of my other issues was how Spuffy began in the first place. Hello?? They brought down a HOUSE. There were scenes following that showing that violence continued to be a part of there sexual relationship. Yes, we can go through the "no means no" but I don't see where either one of them listened to that before. Plus, at that point hadn't we scene Buffy beat the living crap out of Spike? *shrug* That scene just pissed me off.
Me too. Gee, didn't Spike say "no" in Gone? And didn't Buffy ignore him and proceed with what can only be called a sexual assault on him? Oh that's right, the sound editors played "Wacky Hijinks" music in the background so we'd know not to take Buffy forcing herself on Spike seriously.

Back on topic:

If we're talking about a brief affair, I'd go with the sparkage. However, if we're talking about a long-term relationship, I'd go with friendship first to build a firm foundation then have it ripen into love.
JoJo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2005, 08:48 PM   #9
brownsbros3
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,145
I've experienced the B/A vs. C/A conversation before. I could make a really nasty comment regarding them, but I'll hold my tongue. To put it as nicely as I can, there is no reasoning with a hardcore B/Aer. They are completely oblivious to anything except their ship.

Personally, I tend to ship couples that are more realistic. B/A to me came across as just too fake. That could be because I looked at it from a guy's perspective. The whole time I was watching, I kept asking myself, do people really act like that? We take a good looking guy, and a good looking girl, throw them together in episode seven, and all of sudden they are "soulmates"? WTF???

I was really getting into C/A, before they started screwing with it in season four. I didn't even contemplate them as a couple until the latter half of season two. However, when I went back and looked at it, C/A made a lot of sense. When I was in high school only one couple stayed together all the way to adulthood and wound up getting married. All the others that are now married, were friends first, and later developed feelings for each other. To me, what made C/A such a joy to watch was that it was so realistic. There were times where I'd forget they were acting, and just get lost in a scene.
brownsbros3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2005, 12:07 PM   #10
raregem
 
raregem's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 36
That's funny. I ship one from each of those lists.

I guess I just go for the chemistry. It's probably a human productive instinct that we want people to get together.

I'm sorry to say this, but I hang out at a lot of Bangel communities and they will bash the characters and couples but not the C/A shippers. The shipper bashing comes from here. I really love C/A and Charisma but I sometimes hate coming here.

Last edited by raregem; 09-30-2005 at 12:09 PM.
raregem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2005, 01:51 PM   #11
DamnSkippy
 
DamnSkippy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Akron, OH
Posts: 4,895
Quote:
Originally Posted by raregem
That's funny. I ship one from each of those lists.

I guess I just go for the chemistry. It's probably a human productive instinct that we want people to get together.

I'm sorry to say this, but I hang out at a lot of Bangel communities and they will bash the characters and couples but not the C/A shippers. The shipper bashing comes from here. I really love C/A and Charisma but I sometimes hate coming here.
Exsqueeze me?
DamnSkippy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2005, 02:49 PM   #12
psychofilly
*My* Angel eats nuns.
 
psychofilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,520
Quote:
Originally Posted by DamnSkippy
Exsqueeze me?

Bash! Bash those shippers like a little monkey!

I've hung out at Ducks, both anonomously and as a C/A'r, believe me. Shipper bashing can and does go on. However, it probably doesn't to the extent it once did because the show is over and most sane people have left the Nazi's to their own wacked out little cult.

Oh wait... raregem, were you trying to make us feel guilty for being mean? Sorry not going to work. Besides, I'd like to see all this bashing you are talking about. We rib the insane ones for being insane, but sitting around bashing shippers? Who has the time?

I ship for interesting plots/characters and chemistry. I can ship multiple pairs, with duplicates. Like C/A, C/S, A/S, B/A, B/S, A/Faith, C/Faith, Wes/Gunn, Angel/Lindsey, Willow/Angel, Spike/Willow, Oz/Willow, Oz/Giles, Oz/Xander all at the same time, because at any given moment I can see the possibilities. I feel if those possibilities are explored believably and enjoyably, I can buy into just about any ship on paper. However, on screen I need to see a bit of a spark between the actors to make it work.
__________________
"Great, now I'm gonna be stuck with serious thoughts all day." (Cordy)
"They say that inside every fat woman there is a skinny woman just waiting to get out...well, I ate that bitch."
psychofilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2005, 03:43 PM   #13
galathea
 
galathea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 136
Well, I had some agitated discussions but luckily it never got as far as being personal, but I avoid boards like Ducks because it would literally drain every ounce of energy from me to argue there lol .. heck even reading on that board makes me feeling tired .. so I simply stopped going there.

But I was wondering why we ship at all .. I mean, nobody of my friends and family have ever *shipped* a pairing. They can be fans of a show but they would never go as far as joining boards, read fanfic or whatever it is that defines a shipper. Sometimes I feel a bit out of line with my obsession about a fictional couple. So do you know other shippers and do you somtimes think it's odd to ship?
galathea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2005, 08:23 PM   #14
MsT05
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 55
Granted, I haven't been posting here long...But when did ya'll bash C/A? This is the only sight I've ever felt accepted my C/A ship? Not everyone else supported C/A, but I thought most folks here saw the love between C/A. Maybe I missed the bashing?
MsT05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2005, 08:40 PM   #15
Astarte
Happy lurker
 
Astarte's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 46
Nope, because it is fun and even with the fictional background can it tell me something about myself and is an easy outlet for creativity, writing, vidding and photoshopping. It’s really amazing what technical and educational growth you can get out of fandoms and ships. I’m pretty sure, I would have never opened Adobe Premiere or Photoshop otherwise and all the programs that incline in that and my writing has gotten better, spelling, style and security. Plus I really got to learn English eventually, still not perfect, but a huge progress since my school days and I think that are all points, which makes shipping priceless and damn worth it and I met some truly amazing people online from all over the world and discovered that I have more in common with them then a fandom or a ship.

And my ships are pretty wide spread, but I tend mostly to love-hate and friendship-lovers, because I think they have the most potential and dynamic to just suck you into their worlds and enjoy the ride. If they are also snarky and cynical, I’m totally blown away. Chemistry is also a huge aspect especially in the slash department, there are very few ugly people on TV, so I pretend that I not only go for the eye candy there but a value possibility for these characters to break out of their formula and more importantly the big network policy that only straight characters can run a show.

I don’t often engage in fierce arguments about my favourite ship or characters, but if someone asks or provoke me into a fight, they will get my reasons, why my ship rules this fandom in my eyes.
Astarte is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:00 PM.

Link to Us

The Stranger Things Network | Nothing Fancy: The Official ST Fanfic Archive | Volition: The A/C Angst List Archive | Hate the Hate @ dusk-til-dawn | Join Team Cordy! | The Charisma Carpenter Project




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.