The real Cordy in AtS S4?

[Will]

Ive been discussing this with some friends but none of us seem to know for definite of at which point in Season 4 do we see the last of the real Cordelia.

I always took it as that the last we saw of the real Cordy in Season 4 was when she watching over everybody as a higher being and that when she eventually returns with the memory loss she is already under Jasmine's control. And then when Lorne does the spell it sets off everything in her, waking the beast.

Others seem to think that it is the real Cordy until Lorne does the spell.

What does everyone here think?

[LaLa247]

Originally Posted by Will

What does everyone here think?

I think S4 was a disaster of epic proportions.

Also, I think coffee ice cream is really good.

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by Will

What does everyone here think?

I think trying to make any sense at all out of season four is a fruitless endeavor.

Also, Rocky Road blows coffee ice cream away.

[Will]

Originally Posted by LaLa247

I think S4 was a disaster of epic proportions.

Big time, though not as bad as S5 but still a disaster.

[DamnSkippy]

Considering the writers can't explain what they were doing in S4, it really is open to all kinds of interpretation. Although Fury states in his comments on YW that S4 Cordy wasn't her at all, so at least he believes she was Jasmine the moment she returned.

From the way it was portrayed, my impressions are:
1. Amnesia Cordy was a blank slate - just a being who had no memories so it wasn't Real!Cordy or Evil!Cordy.
2. After STB, Jasmine and Real!Cordy are stimulated into consciousness. R!C is freaked and doesn't understand what's happening inside her not to mention all the information she gained as a higher being and Jasmine is too weak to completely take over.
3. I think the moment she tells Angel she loves him but she can't be with him right now is the R!C and she's just too confused to really know what to do. This, IMO, is the Buffy-can't-feel syndrome being repeated. Back from the higher planes, she doesn't feel right and doesn't know how to handle it not realizing that the feelings she's having are Jasmine exerting her influence.
3. Gradually Jasmine is able to take control at moments, one of these moments being sleeping with Connor. The next morning, judging by Cordy's reaction to having slept with Connor, R!C is back in control and horrified by what's happening to her but still is too scared and confused to know what to do.
4. I can't tell exactly when Jasmine is in complete control, but she grew stronger quickly once she was "conceived" and is in full control by the time Evil!Cordy kills Lilah. This is supported when Jasmine says something like "if only it was a few weeks later" when she's trying to stop Willow implying she would be stronger the further along in the pregnancy. So it makes sense that she was rather weak in the very beginning and gained strength after conception and her corporeal form was developing.
5. Also her clothes and hair color are an indication of the gradual control Jasmine gains. As Jasmine gets stronger, Cordy's hair gets darker and her clothes get more...well...fugly.

And Pralines and Cream is the best ice cream every created!

[LisaMarie514]

I think in S4 we caught a glimpse of real Cordy in Angel's Raiders of the Lost Ark dream sequence before he gets turned into Angelus. It was a brief fleeting moment though.

I am a Ben & Jerry's Cherry Garcia addict and I am not ashamed of it.

[LaLa247]

Fuck that, have any of you actually tried Edy's Espresso Chip ice cream? It's like buttah, people. Like BUTTAH.

[DamnSkippy]

Originally Posted by LaLa247

Fuck that, have any of you actually tried Edy's Espresso Chip ice cream? It's like buttah, people. Like BUTTAH.

Actually, no. I haven't even seen it. I'll put it on my list and make an effort to look for it because any ice cream that can make you *that* insistent must be at least very good.

[Clarice]

I agree for the most part with what DamSkippy said.
When Cordelia return in the S4 we have a non Cordelia, not a real Cordelia nor an evil Cordelia. It's a transient state because Jasmine is not strong enoth to take the control of the body and the mind of Cordelia.
But I think we can't see the real Cordelia in all this, but only a fade reflex, because the real Cordelia in my opinion is the ensemble of all her emotions, all her ideas, all her experiences, all her memories. In the case of the Cordelia in the s4, before Jasmine took control of, we have a person with the aspect and the memories of the real C. and a resulting reflex of what were her emotions. An idea of a hypotetical-Cordelia if the reality was been different. Even after the spell, when we see that Cordelia regains her memories and also when Angel ask her if they were in love, I think we don't have a real Cordelia, because there can be a middle way.
In conclusion i hate s4 and all the autors -____- çç____çç

[samsmom]

S4 sucked liked a giant sucking thing. I hate what they did to CC, from the horsesh** storyline to the fucktastic clothes they made her wear. The *only* thing I find palpable about that season of suck was Angel's pain and jealousy after Apocolypse Nowish or Rain Of Fire or whatever it was called. I'll never truly forgive the other characters for not seeing how Cordy was drowning right in front of them.

But, from a narrative perspective, I tend to go with Damnskippy's assessment. Cordy was in there but blanketed, saying and doing things she couldn't control and being so confused by it, until she conceived Jasmine.
She must have been screaming inside when she was telling Angel she held his past against him, because even after being on the front lines of his rampage in SD, you know she didn't feel that way.

I love the glimpse of the real Cordy in Angel's perfect day dream, because it shows he loves her for the same reasons we do.

And apparently he has some sort of fantasy about her clothes getting ripped off a little at time.

[Platypus]

Season 4? Forget that. The last time I saw the real Cordy was before she went away on "vacation" with Groo. Whatever it was that came back with him, it wasn't Cordelia Chase.

[Bert]

Guys, guys, guys, none of you are doing this right.

What you need is to get plain old regular raspberry ripple ice cream, get a few scoops into a glass, and then pour over some coca-cola. Add a spoon, and you've got heaven.

Mmm!

[psychofilly]

Originally Posted by Bert

Guys, guys, guys, none of you are doing this right.

What you need is to get plain old regular raspberry ripple ice cream, get a few scoops into a glass, and then pour over some coca-cola. Add a spoon, and you've got heaven.

Mmm!

Stop that, I'm on a diet! Do you want the last twenty pounds to reappear? Well do ya? God, for some reason that sounds really good.

[Morrigan]

Originally Posted by psychofilly

Stop that, I'm on a diet! Do you want the last twenty pounds to reappear? Well do ya? God, for some reason that sounds really good.

Maybe you could use Diet Coke and low fat ice cream? Oh who amI kidding... that does sound yummy though.

[Mr.Brightside]

Originally Posted by Will

Ive been discussing this with some friends but none of us seem to know for definite of at which point in Season 4 do we see the last of the real Cordelia.

I always took it as that the last we saw of the real Cordy in Season 4 was when she watching over everybody as a higher being and that when she eventually returns with the memory loss she is already under Jasmine's control. And then when Lorne does the spell it sets off everything in her, waking the beast.

Others seem to think that it is the real Cordy until Lorne does the spell.

What does everyone here think?

I believe the real Cordy was never seen in Season 4. The beginning of Season 4, there was Cordy with no memory.....until Lorne used a spell which woken Jasmine not Cordy...So there on, it was Jasmine who was doing everything and not Cordy. The only time we actually see the real Cordy is in Season 5 "Your Welcome".