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Old 01-15-2009, 11:13 PM   #16
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I tend to compartmentalize too, in a manner of speaking. Sometimes what makes an episode truly expceptional for me are those moments - like Doyle's sacrifice (after all the obvious-in-hindsight foreshadowing), or Darla's staking herself to save her baby, or the second Angel locked the cellar doors on the lawyers and vamps. The last few minutes of You're Welcome are so obvious I don't have to mention it.
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Old 01-31-2009, 10:45 PM   #17
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And I like "Birthday" better than a lot of their top 25. -tojoson
I agree. And that’s the ep that got me to the ST board.

And Rm w/a Vu

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Even though Faith started out on BTVS, I always felt like she was better suited to Angel. In S1 of ATS, that is when we finally see the turn around, see the character development. I would have preferred if she would have just stayed with the AI team after she took care of Angelus. Granted, that would have made the cast bloated but in all honestly, I never liked Fred and would trade her for Faith any day of the week. Then again, didn't think we needed teenage Connor either. It was too much of an insert-a-kid-grow-em-with-SORAS plot device. (SORAS=Soap Opera Rapid Aging Syndrome).-Livvie
I agree. I always liked Faith and wish she would have been part of the ATS team. I really liked her.

SORAS...I like that term.

I stopped watching Angel after we read those certain spoilers. So I only saw a handful of S4 eps and no S5 eps.

So I can’t comment on S4 or S5. Only to say I remember we were so happy when S4 started…boy were we wrong.

I didn’t like when Buffy showed up in S1, anything with Connor in it. Hated that. When Cordy wasn’t in some eps in S3.
Or Darla...ok so there were certain part’s I didn’t like.
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Old 02-10-2009, 11:22 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by samsmom View Post
I'll admit it, I don't see why She is considered so horrible.

It didn't have the best plot, but imo, the greater part of s4 is much, much worse. At least She didn't tear apart the team dynamic and character rape my OTC.

And it did have Angel's dork dance.

I watched one episode of s5, You're Welcome, and then only twice because it's too painful.

I don't agree with a lot of the picks, except Waiting in the Wings, because it includes too much s4 and s5, and didn't include Hero. How could that guy dismiss Doyle's sacrifice just because the episode included Nazi ripoffs? Pfft.

I don't get the She hatred either. It had a few funny moments, Angel's dork dance and his Baudelaire lecture, and it ended on a positive note. That alone elevates it above all of S4.
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Old 02-10-2009, 12:44 PM   #19
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I was doing an Angel rewatch recently and really watched She again. If you look at the transcript, the plot, it actually isn't a poorly written episode. It's a lot stronger than other episodes in S1 (like Eternity. I know it has Angelus but it takes 35 long, boring, self-reflective bullshit minutes to get to him).

What made She so horrible, imho, is Bai Ling. She can't act. At all. Her accent and the way she runs her words together makes it so hard to understand her. There are parts where honestly, the words, are just jumbled garbage because she doesn't enuciate at all.

But reading the transcript, it would have been a great episode if someone else was cast, I think. No offense to her but there are a lot of fantastic Asian actresses out there who can get a line out and actually show emotion. I feel like maybe that was a casting stunt because she was an It girl at the time.
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Old 02-10-2009, 11:56 PM   #20
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she was an It girl at the time. -Livvie
She was?


I remember getting my S1 Angel DVD’s and found myself liking certain parts of that episode 'She'.

Livvie I think you bring up the biggest issue with that episode. Did not like that character and I can’t understand the dialogue as much as I wanted to.
It was stunt casting that didn’t go well. (Didn’t they bring that character back in an Angel book? I seem to remember someone on the board ranting about that oh so long ago.)

I remember when that ep was coming out and ET did a little segment that Bai Ling was on that ep. My first thought was…who?
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Old 02-11-2009, 07:56 AM   #21
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She was?
At the time, Bai Ling was considered a lead contender for an Oscar nomination for whatever forgettable movie she was in.

My biggest problem with "She" is they set up a situation decrying the terrible 'mutilation' of one gender forced on them by the other gender, and then demonstrated that without this 'mutilation', their entire society would have collapsed, so the 'mutilation' ended up being a requirement for the species' survival. Basically, she (whatever the character's name was), was promoting genocide by working against what she saw as injustice, and Angel helped.

Other than that, the party, the "dancing", and the coffee bean thing were all of the good. But the bad was the core of the episode. The rest you can see on YouTube.
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Old 02-11-2009, 12:53 PM   #22
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Bai Ling certainly didn't help "She," but I didn't care for it for other reasons. The main one being the message and the trappings surrounding it.

So the show has decided to tackle weighty issues like slavery and freedom and free will. And here are these women, escaping from lives where they are seen as property, good for bedding and baring children, but probably not a whole lot more more.

Then here are the victims of these atrocities, running around like beach bunnies (on a nude beach), getting any man who gets close to them all "hot" and bothered and flustered, and isn't that hilarious? And kinda naughty.

It was like the writers were trying to combine the seriousness of a deep social message with the fun of a wet t-shirt contest.
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Old 02-11-2009, 02:38 PM   #23
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It was like the writers were trying to combine the seriousness of a deep social message with the fun of a wet t-shirt contest.
When you start to really examine the so-called feminism of both shows, isn't that what it basically boils down to?
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Old 02-11-2009, 10:58 PM   #24
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At the time, Bai Ling was considered a lead contender for an Oscar nomination for whatever forgettable movie she was in.-SamIAm
LOL. Really. I never knew that. But to be honest…I really don’t care. I think Angel was the only thing I have seen her in. (Thank goodness)
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Old 02-11-2009, 11:06 PM   #25
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When you start to really examine the so-called feminism of both shows, isn't that what it basically boils down to?
I think we can agree that Joss Whedon is not a feminist, right?
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Old 02-14-2009, 06:29 PM   #26
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in my personal opinion the armchair critic is way off on most of the best of and even worst of lists there were very few episodes on on the best of list that i even agreed was the best and even then they were ranked lower that waht they should have been. can someone please tell me how iwry even made the best of list much less rank as high as it did
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