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Old 10-26-2004, 06:53 PM   #31
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This just kind of got me thinking while I was watching "To Shanshu in L.A." this morning on TNT. When Wesley mentions about how Angel doesn't want anything and is cut off from the world. That pissed Cordelia off. When she heard that, to her that was unacceptable. She then decides to make it her mission to make him apart of the world.

Then there's the scene later in the hospital. Angel stated in season three that he could deal with losing Buffy. However, rewind back to season one, you look in his eyes when Cordelia is going into convulsions, and he looks scared to death at the thought of her dying.
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Old 10-28-2004, 12:28 AM   #32
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I loved Charisma's acting in that episode. She was amazing. It was also the episode (I saw it in re-runs) that completely solidified my devotion to C/A.
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Old 10-30-2004, 05:52 AM   #33
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Really, That episode is great! Charisma scares the heck of me each time.. it must have been really hard to act that vision out!
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Old 10-30-2004, 04:46 PM   #34
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To me another thing that really seperated Cordy from Buffy, is that Cordy actually cared about Angel's happiness. IMO, Buffy was too busy wrapped up in herself. I don't if I can recall one instance, where Buffy stopped to take Angel's feelings into consideration. Yet, on ATS, Cordelia was constantly getting him to open up.
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Old 11-02-2004, 05:56 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brownsbros3
To me another thing that really seperated Cordy from Buffy, is that Cordy actually cared about Angel's happiness. IMO, Buffy was too busy wrapped up in herself. I don't if I can recall one instance, where Buffy stopped to take Angel's feelings into consideration. Yet, on ATS, Cordelia was constantly getting him to open up.
I totally agree!
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Old 11-27-2004, 08:17 PM   #36
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Even though I loved CC, I wasn't planning on watching Angel because Angel the character did not appeal to me. He did not have any strong, non-hate-filled relationships with any of the good guys except Buffy, and all he ever seemed to do was be angsty and kill bad guys.

Eventually I did start to watch Angel, and I did start to enjoy his character, little by little. But what really won me over was his interactions with others. In the first couple of episodes, if he wasn't fighting for justice, he just wanted to be alone with his books or his thoughts of Buffy. He seemed to abhor contact with others, and he was always glaring at Cordelia or Doyle, or looked uncomfortable in a very constipated way. But as the series he progressed, he really started to unwind. He appreciated his friends, he wanted to spend time with them.

The C\A relationship, to me, symbolized this whole change in character. It was progression. A lot of people found it wildly OOC, but I saw it more as Angel finally becoming more human, instead of staying the detatched, mopey guy, who would kill himself in an instant if it weren't for Buffy and\or redemption. Doyle said Cordelia was humanizing influence, and I agree wholeheartedly. Being human is more than being able to be in the sun, being able to age, and having a reflection. And while Angel was able to become this more humanized person with more than just Cordelia, I'd always felt that the bond the two of them had with each other was stronger than the bonds either of them had with others.
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Old 11-28-2004, 08:33 AM   #37
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I totally agree. Cordelia was able to bring out things in Angel that he didn't know where there. When referring to them I like to use a quote from the movie "As Good As It Gets." Jack Nicholson tells Helen Hunt, "You make me want to be a better man." I think the same could be said for Angel feels about Cordelia. I think Mutant Enemy had a golden opportunity for something special with Angel/Cordelia, but they blew it.

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Old 11-29-2004, 10:36 AM   #38
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Here's another one. When I was watching Heartthrob on TNT this morning, I got to thinking had the roles been reversed, would Buffy have tried to comfort Angel over Cordelia's death? The answer as we found out in season five is no.
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Old 11-29-2004, 02:00 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brownsbros3
Here's another one. When I was watching Heartthrob on TNT this morning, I got to thinking had the roles been reversed, would Buffy have tried to comfort Angel over Cordelia's death? The answer as we found out in season five is no.
I don't think you can extrapolate what happened in S5 retroactively to S3 considering in S5 (1) we don't know if Buffy knew Cordy was dead; (2) it was made clear Buffy and the rest of the Scoobs no longer trusted Angel since he made his deal with W&H so why would she console someone she didn't trust even if she knew; and (3) not one character on Ats consoled anyone over Cordy's death in S5 so why should a character not even on the show come out of the blue to do so.

I think if Buffy were a part of S5 or S3 Ats and had been around during Cordy's death, she would have said something to console him. However, whether we saw it on TV or whether it was done offscreen would still be questionable.
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Old 11-29-2004, 03:41 PM   #40
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Let's stick to just season three then, had Cordelia died, I don't think Buffy would have consoled Angel, had she known or not. With Cordelia, Buffy's death mattered to her because she cared about how it would effect Angel. Let's remember she and Buffy were never really friends. Had Cordelia died, I think Buffy would feel some grief, but wouldn't have thought or cared about how Cordelia's death would effect Angel. With her personality at the time, it was all me, me, me.
As far as season five goes, I would think the characters did console each other over Cordelia's death. The problem is Joss Whedon and Mutant Enemy decided to be petty, and not show it to us. However, Angel does twice mention to Spike, "I lost Cordelia." I wished they would have explored those statements more, because it came across to me like Angel was implying that he blamed himself for Cordelia's death.
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Old 11-29-2004, 06:31 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by brownsbros3
Had Cordelia died, I think Buffy would feel some grief, but wouldn't have thought or cared about how Cordelia's death would effect Angel. With her personality at the time, it was all me, me, me.
I'm not the biggest fan of what they did to Buffy's character, but she was never so one-dimensional as you depict, IMO. The person you claim her to be cares apparently for no one but herself and I don't see that at all. Yes, she had a fixation about how things affected her, but she was also capable of empathizing with those she cared about and offering comfort. She would no doubt not have felt great grief over Cordy's death but she could and would have known that Angel would be grieving over her and even Xander would be affected. I'm not saying she would have made the trip to LA to comfort him, but I do think she would have at least made a call to see how he was doing or written him a condolence note. And if she didn't I think it would have been because they were not really friends at that point and had been apart from each other for some time, so she may have felt awkward approaching him during such a personal time. She may have felt his family of Gunn and Wesley were there for him and her presence might be an intrusion on that dynamic, but I don't think she wouldn't have thought about him and felt for him.
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Old 11-29-2004, 10:41 PM   #42
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Let me see if I can phrase my point a little better. Had Cordy died instead of Buffy, I don't think Buffy would make the extra effort to comfort Angel the way Cordelia did when Buffy died. That was one of the reasons why Angel and Buffy didn't work for me. They never opened up to each other the way Angel and Cordelia did. Angel never liked expressing his feelings, but Cordelia always somehow found a way to get him to open up.

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Old 12-01-2004, 06:49 PM   #43
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Can I sum up all of my Cordy/Angel love in this? No. Will I try? No. Will I put a few things on here that remind me why C/A is such a wonderful couple? Duh.

Honestly, I didn't watch it in the beginning (BtVS). I was a little kid then...I didn't even know what they were talking about. (Don't worry, after years and years I've seen just about every episode, spoiler-thingy, and review possible; pretend like I was there all along!) Anyway...onto C/A goodness...

B/A was just too lusty for me. They couldn't hang out or have fun...or anything. And Buffy treated Angel like crap. (Notice: she treats Spike the same way...that girl has issues beyond my theraputic repair.)

Buffy, re: Angel's kisses
"It makes me want to die."

Also

Buffy and Angel:
Angel: You think I'm an animal? (More of a statement, actually. From his POV.)
Buffy: No. Animals I like.


Buffy tends to become an obsession for vamps, most likely a slayer thing.

While I won't doubt Angel and Buffy's love for each other in the beginning, it's over now. Cordelia is his light, she has a way with words and she makes his blood without the ittiest bittiest grimace. She cares about him. Way I see it, (In S1 Ats) Cordelia wanted to accept Doyle and Angel to some degree, so that they would accept her. That acceptance just got bigger and bigger, it grew throughout the seasons. They fell in love.

Plus, B/A was like that teenage time in your life when you think you'll be with that person forever. No, Angel was NOT a teen, but it was still Teen Love.

After two-hundred plus years, the guy grew up.
Cordelia did to.
They grew up together.
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Old 12-01-2004, 09:34 PM   #44
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Did you ever also notice then when Angel would tell stories about his past, Buffy would get creeped out by him, but Cordelia would listen enthusiastically?

When Buffy was faced with the reality of all the rotten things Angel did when he was Angelus, she could never get past it. However, with Cordelia those things didn't matter. She could see that Angel is not that person anymore.
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Old 12-02-2004, 11:00 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brownsbros3
Did you ever also notice then when Angel would tell stories about his past, Buffy would get creeped out by him, but Cordelia would listen enthusiastically?

When Buffy was faced with the reality of all the rotten things Angel did when he was Angelus, she could never get past it. However, with Cordelia those things didn't matter. She could see that Angel is not that person anymore.
I like the fact that even through the comments from time to time it was clear for all to see Cordelia appreciated the fact that Angel opened up to her. Gave her a sense of belonging.. an issue she faced many times.
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