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Old 04-07-2008, 05:36 PM   #16
nikkiwawa
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Bumping this up for the newbies! It appeared on a Google Alert, today and I was reminded why I loved this essay the first time around. It's still a good read, I tell ya. So, for any newbies that haven't read it, please go here and read it. Such an awesome essay.
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Old 04-07-2008, 06:44 PM   #17
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I do love that essay, but reading it again I'm a puzzled by something she says. I never got that Cordy was infected with Barney's empathy when she stabbed him with the horn. I get that the horn was supposed to take whatever power the person had, but I didn't think that just holding it would pass that power on. Did anyone else think at that moment that Cordy was suddenly filled with empathy?

I also wish she'd gotten the "Birthday" episode straight. Cordy wasn't given the choice between becoming demon and staying with Angel or becoming a star and she chose the star route because she was just that selfish. The demon option was given after she got the visions back.

But other than those nitpicky things, it is a fabulous essay and thanks for bumping it up again.
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Old 04-07-2008, 06:55 PM   #18
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No problem

You know, thinking about it now, I second your nitpicks lol I didn't think Cordy got Barney's empathy, either. When she stabbed him with it, that was the end of Barney. He deflated.

I don't know where she got the choice between becoming demon or stardom bit. I KNOW she had to watch that episode. Maybe, it slipped? At first all Skip offered was the stardom route or she will die from the visions.

Thanks for pointing those out. I totally overlooked them.
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Old 04-07-2008, 07:55 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DamnSkippy View Post
I also wish she'd gotten the "Birthday" episode straight. Cordy wasn't given the choice between becoming demon and staying with Angel or becoming a star and she chose the star route because she was just that selfish.
I totally disagree, she didn't take the star route b/c she was selfish she didn't go there until after she heard Angel say she was a weak, spoiled little girl trying to play superhero (I know that's not the exact quote).

She reacted out of hurt and anger that had nothing to do with being selfish. If my best friend, the man I had just sacrificed everything for, including living with the knowledge that I was basically going to die for him, just said I meant nothing to him? I'd be all f*uck you and the horse you rode in on, I'm out of here.

Besides, I really don't know how anyone can say that someone choosing to save their own life, at no cost to anyone else, is selfish. It's one thing if she knew that choosing to be a Star would result in Angel going insane, Wes losing his arm and Fred begin stuck in Pylea but she didn't. All she knew was that history would be re-written and that she and Angel never would have met.

How is that selfish?
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Old 04-07-2008, 07:55 PM   #20
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I figured she just got a tiny bit confused about certain events. I know I do. But the essay is fabulous and I'm still so thrilled that such a wonderful writer (a personal favorite author of mine, to boot) champions Cordelia and pretty much got to say what we all wanted to say to ME (except minus the profanity and aspersions on their collective parentages).

They frakked up and got called on it.
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Old 04-08-2008, 08:30 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Morrigan View Post
I totally disagree, she didn't take the star route b/c she was selfish she didn't go there until after she heard Angel say she was a weak, spoiled little girl trying to play superhero (I know that's not the exact quote).

She reacted out of hurt and anger that had nothing to do with being selfish. If my best friend, the man I had just sacrificed everything for, including living with the knowledge that I was basically going to die for him, just said I meant nothing to him? I'd be all f*uck you and the horse you rode in on, I'm out of here.

Besides, I really don't know how anyone can say that someone choosing to save their own life, at no cost to anyone else, is selfish. It's one thing if she knew that choosing to be a Star would result in Angel going insane, Wes losing his arm and Fred begin stuck in Pylea but she didn't. All she knew was that history would be re-written and that she and Angel never would have met.

How is that selfish?
You misunderstood my phrasing. I was saying that's what Jennifer Crusie was saying. The way she put it in her essay was that Cordelia was given the choice between the demon thing and becoming a star and, being the self-centered person she was, she chose the star thing. I was pointing out her mistake. Sorry you ranted at me for no reason because I agree with you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Samsmom
I figured she just got a tiny bit confused about certain events. I know I do. But the essay is fabulous and I'm still so thrilled that such a wonderful writer (a personal favorite author of mine, to boot) champions Cordelia and pretty much got to say what we all wanted to say to ME (except minus the profanity and aspersions on their collective parentages).
I love the essay. I just wondered if I was the only person in the Angelverse who didn't think Cordy received empathy after killing Barney. Is it a common belief that she did?

Last edited by DamnSkippy; 04-08-2008 at 08:38 AM.
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Old 04-08-2008, 08:52 AM   #22
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No, I don't think she 'received' empathy after stabbing Barney. JC got that part wrong, definitely.
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Old 04-08-2008, 09:10 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by DamnSkippy View Post
You misunderstood my phrasing. I was saying that's what Jennifer Crusie was saying. The way she put it in her essay was that Cordelia was given the choice between the demon thing and becoming a star and, being the self-centered person she was, she chose the star thing. I was pointing out her mistake. Sorry you ranted at me for no reason because I agree with you.
Sorry, I didn't mean to rant at you. It just irks me when people say she was selfish in Birthday b/c she chose the option that allowed her to live.
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Old 05-30-2008, 02:14 PM   #24
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Thanks so much for the link to this. It's a great read- also very depressing. I will never, ever get over what they did to Cordy.
At least I know I'm not alone
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Old 10-30-2009, 03:08 PM   #25
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I just re-read this today off her site, and I'm astounded all over again at Cruisie's insight into the character of Cordelia and at how ME royally screwed her over.
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