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Old 08-19-2005, 11:13 PM   #166
raregem
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaLa247
I guess the writers succeeded at convincing the audience that, despite evidence to the contrary, Spike was the one who initiated all sexual acts with Buffy, forced her into that dark, unhealthy, and violent relationship, and was oh-so-EVOL while Buffy was the sweet, confused innocent trapped by Spike's cunning ability to be charming, thoughtful, caring, tender, and yes, human with her in the time before their encounters.


I should speak for myself and I know you're being sarcastic, but I don't think most people saw that. But they succeeded in splitting the audience where half saw Buffy drawn to Spike by love or attraction while the others saw her drawn to him to punish herself.

Last edited by raregem; 08-19-2005 at 11:15 PM.
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Old 08-19-2005, 11:24 PM   #167
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All I have to say about Spuffy, and to be honest it has little or nothing to do with what went on on the show, is that there are probably many compelling ways to discuss rape on TV, but I personally feel exploring the idea of a woman as rapist is not the one I would have picked because it has little (as far as I know) to do with the overwhelming reality. Notice: I am not not taking sides on who was wrong in this whole situation, just that it's not a way that I found particularly useful to talk about rape.

Maybe this has to do with my strong personal feelings - and I'm not pretending otherwise - but I think it was one of the more distasteful ideas that the writers of Buffy had. I didn't find it interesting, I didn't find it provocative, I just personally found it distasteful. Which is pretty much why I stopped watching the show.

ETA: I realise that this is not entirely clear. I guess it would be more exact to say abuse rather than rape above, and talk about the portrayal of an abusive relationship, but I think they were shading into other rape-related territory even before Spike actually attacks Buffy in Seeing Red. Eh, I thought before hand that a Spuffy relationship would be interesting (especially from what we got in season five) but I didn't really think what we got on screen really worked at all.

As for Angel and Buffy: I liked it at the time. It was madly melodramatic and ended where it should have with Buffy graduating and Angel moving to LA - and I thought it would have worked better in retrospect if both of them had matured relationshipwise and moved on to other things in their lives, rather than revisting it endlessly, which meant IMO that they hamstrung both characters a bit in both the shows. What can I say? I liked Buffy, Angel, Cordelia - all of them pretty much, though I thought that they all had flaws that only got tiring when the shows kept revisiting them.
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Last edited by September; 08-20-2005 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 08-20-2005, 01:38 AM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenC4707
I always had a problem with the Angel split-personality thing (and no, I never did buy that Angelus was a totally diff. person) because it made it too easy and black-and-white. I like my characters a bit gray, even if BtVS didn't always do the best job with that.
If anything AtS showed us that the whole Angel/Angelus split personality was far from being that clear cut and black and white as BtVS wanted to make us believe. It made clear that Angelus was a part of Angel, constantly pulling at him, something he had to fight every day. It wasn't only the soul that kept his darkness in check, it's an effort of will on Angels part too. That's at least how I interpret the events in S2, when he allows himself to get overwhelmed by his demons nature.
Also in Orpheus Angelus made clear that he is always lurking below, trying to influence Angels actions. So Angel became very *grey* in AtS.
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Old 08-20-2005, 02:33 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galathea
If anything AtS showed us that the whole Angel/Angelus split personality was far from being that clear cut and black and white as BtVS wanted to make us believe. It made clear that Angelus was a part of Angel, constantly pulling at him, something he had to fight every day. It wasn't only the soul that kept his darkness in check, it's an effort of will on Angels part too. That's at least how I interpret the events in S2, when he allows himself to get overwhelmed by his demons nature.
Also in Orpheus Angelus made clear that he is always lurking below, trying to influence Angels actions. So Angel became very *grey* in AtS.
Oh, I totally get what you are saying. That's why I enjoyed the character so much more on AtS than BtVS... we got to see so much more of the character where on BtVS he seemed pretty much defined in terms of his relationship with Buffy. Before, I was talking about how Angel was portrayed on BtVS. Sorry, should've clarified that.
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