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Old 06-15-2004, 02:07 PM   #16
LordKain
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Levin

Even though he is a major Dickhead I kinda feel sorry for the guy being demoted and then quitting cause he did David Boreanaz a HUGE favor when he cancelled the show and alloud him to pursue a Movie Career and now Jordan Levin is paying for it.
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Old 06-15-2004, 02:17 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordKain
Even though he is a major Dickhead I kinda feel sorry for the guy being demoted and then quitting cause he did David Boreanaz a HUGE favor when he cancelled the show and alloud him to pursue a Movie Career and now Jordan Levin is paying for it.
You scare me. Really.

ETA: Watch the language dude.
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Old 06-15-2004, 02:38 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordKain
Even though he is a major Dickhead I kinda feel sorry for the guy being demoted and then quitting cause he did David Boreanaz a HUGE favor when he cancelled the show and alloud him to pursue a Movie Career and now Jordan Levin is paying for it.
Wait, Levin did DB a huge favor for cancelling the show and then:

Quote:
He should be the wipping boy cause he has made numerous mistakes and in interviews David Boreanaz has said that everyone depended on him for there job security and I personally think it was wrong and a awful think for David Boreanaz to go through he did a fabolous job as Angel way better than Sarah's performance after he left BTVS.

It is Joss Whedon's responsability for there jobs but ultimatly he sold his soul to the WB for another season which was by far the biggest waste of 22 hours I ever spent of my life I feel I deserve them back.
You villify Joss for securing him one more season of job security. Which was also Levin's decision. You can't have it both ways. In fact, I'm not sure which way you stand any more.

It seems you think everyone is evil and bad. Watch it! they are all out to get you!
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Old 06-15-2004, 03:09 PM   #19
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Levin

Nah I don't think everyone is evil and out to get me: just a disgrundled ex-fan of the show speaking here I would of been happier if they ended it at S4 instead.

By the way could you imagine what a nightmare S6 would be if it actually happened I dread the thought.
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Old 06-15-2004, 03:43 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordKain
Nah I don't think everyone is evil and out to get me: just a disgrundled ex-fan of the show speaking here I would of been happier if they ended it at S4 instead.

By the way could you imagine what a nightmare S6 would be if it actually happened I dread the thought.
Considering I thought the last few eps From Shells on (excluding the fact that there was a massive retcon and we all knew it and TGIQ) were pretty strong, I might have watched it. I wouldn't have liked more Buffy and B/A stuff because I don't think Joss would have rebuilt the relationship properly, actually I know he wouldn't have, but If Gunn were to survive and Illyria and Spike were still there along with Angel, I would be okay.
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Old 06-15-2004, 07:27 PM   #21
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As a whole, the network took several steps backward this season. I think that is the main reason for his departure. The programming decisions really ended up costing them. The move to Wednesday's caused Smallville's ratings to drop over 50%. Angel started well ratings wise, but when the other networks started running new episodes of their regular programs, it dropped. While I enjoyed a season five, I think they did the right thing by ending it. They really have nowhere else to go.
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Old 06-15-2004, 08:19 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Prima
Is it wrong of me to be laughing over all the gifts sent to this man and now he too is gone?
If it's wrong, I don't want to be right.

The good news is that he'll have plenty of afterschool and late night snacks. He should stock up on milk.
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Old 06-16-2004, 10:55 AM   #23
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Awesome news! The rotten jerk deserves every bit of misfortune that comes his way.
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Old 06-16-2004, 11:17 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fielding
Awesome news! The rotten jerk deserves every bit of misfortune that comes his way.
Considering his salary during his tenure would likely have been what you'll ever make in a lifetime, I'm sure he's weeping a river and drowning in his tears for your glee.
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Old 06-16-2004, 11:32 AM   #25
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You know, Joe Schmo could of been the one in charge of programming over at the WB and the show still would of been cancelled IJMHO. Honestly, the decision to cancel ATS wasn't EXCLUSIVELY Levin's. I am sure that it was a group decision. And gee, I guess when an executive actually tries to do their job (i.e. make money for the studio) it makes them a bad person.

Frankly, fielding, you never really have answered the question as to if you think that the studios are making these shows or keeping them on the air just simply for the artisitic merit or to provide you with entertaining shows. They don't. Maybe on networks like HBO where commercials and ad revenue aren't a factor, but at the big networks they are in it for the money/profit plain and simple. If you want to watch a network that is as concerned with the bottom line as artistic integrity, a channel like HBO is the one for you. ATS was a money losing venture. Plain and simple. That's why it got cancelled. That's I am surprised that you haven't got that by now.
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Old 06-16-2004, 12:20 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fielding
Awesome news! The rotten jerk deserves every bit of misfortune that comes his way.
I honestly don't get the Levin hate, it's not like he didn't give Joss and Co. fair warning. I'm not even talking about the early release that came in Jan. or Feb. but the annoucment for last season comparing it to DC? That had to be big clue #1 that the show wasn't coming back for a S6. The fact that the WB initially ordered only 13 eps of S5 had to be big clue #2.

I don't get how Joss can say that he didn't know that ATS would end with S5. Seriously, at the start of the season only having an order for 13 eps he had to know that the show might not even make the full season.

If you're hating Levin b/c he took you're favorite toy away then I can understand the bitterness but if you're hating him under the mistaken belief that he sabotaged or scuttled ATS then you're looking in the wrong place.
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Old 06-16-2004, 12:44 PM   #27
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My problems with Levin go well beyond his involvement in the cancellation of Angel.

He was quoted in the press making very negative comments about the loss of BTVS to UPN. He and Kellner in turned made restrictions on the writers through seasons three and four regarding Buffy and Sunnydale. Which ripped out a lot of the history of Angel, Cordy, and Wes. A history that was an important bond with the charatcters and fed into their motivations.

But the thing that I found the largest fault with was the constant changing of time slots. I lost count of how many times the show was moved. Not the greatest network support for a show. Angel was treated like the bastard child long before it was cancelled.

But I think his true downfall in the network position came from his inability to handle the publicity nightmare the cancellation caused. He was in charge when the decision was made but he did nothing to try and stem the bad press the network was getting. Maybe he is the "scapegoat" but he was in charge and he was responsible to deal with the situation.

I think this was most obvious to the WB brass when they all flew in from all over for a meeting and the meeting was disrupted for hours by the 100 plus fans outside the windows rallying for the show. And when asked what he intended to do about it, Levin had no response. A part of being in charge is you have to take responsibilty for all decisions made under your watch. So maybe the cancellations was an economic one but the fallout was a publicity nightmare that he was unable to handle. Meaning he was unable to do his job effectively.

So based on what I "personally" find his failures and what the WB finds to be we agree on one thing..............he was not good at his job and needed to go.

Tara
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Old 06-16-2004, 12:50 PM   #28
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B&A fan when you said that Kellner made restrictions on the writers through seasons three and four regarding Buffy and Sunnydale. Which ripped out a lot of the history of Angel, Cordy, and Wes. A history that was an important bond with the characters and fed into their motivations, did you mean restrictions on ATS season three and four or BTVS season three and four?

Just curious.
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Old 06-16-2004, 12:51 PM   #29
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Publicity nightmare? I think that's going a bit far. The outrage over Farscape had a larger impact and was more of a "publicity nightmare" for Sci-Fi then this has been for the WB.

If anything Levin's departure has more to do with the fact that UPN actually managed to find a hit (in Last Model Standind) while The WB is getting old and it's only successful pilot in recent years has been a sleeper hit OTH.

I think you guys are putting way too much importance on one tiny insignificant little show.
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Old 06-16-2004, 12:57 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morrigan
Publicity nightmare? I think that's going a bit far.
Hurricane Tara (post-BtVS 6) was a publicity nightmare. Canceling a marginal show was not -- no matter how many tens of people gathered under his window to bay about it.

Levin got demoted because 1) his former co-exec, Garth Ancier, got promoted past him, and 2) the Frog is losing the teen demos it promises its advertisers and has been doing so since last season. AtS never had those demos in the first place, so I'm guessing it's close to a nonfactor -- unless, of course, the decision to let it continue is now being viewed as a tactical error.
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