The "Veronica Mars" SPOILER Thread

[Kika]

Originally Posted by KeyserSoze

Actually ---->Veronica dumps Logan again and starts dating Duncan in the first episode, not midseason <----

--->Oops, I totally already know that. I guess I overlooked the midseason comment by Lara and just dealt with the rumour in general as I pretty much know those casting sides back to front by now. Which is clearly a bad thing, as I'm still trying to wipe the thought of that blindfolded scone scene from my brain. <---

Thanks, Platy. Like you, I'm becoming convinced that something between Logan and Kendall will happen especially when you consider the angle of that promo shot and the "come in" line from the S2 promo. --->If it's true about Veronica being the one to dump Logan, and he takes it as badly as they suggest, then you could well understand him having a fling with Kendall to get over her. <---

[LaLa247]

Thanks for the clarification, guys.

-->I also think Kendall/Logan is happening, just because of the promo. Who else would she be talking to? Her step-kids? Her husband (no, really)? Logan looks like the type to do "Stacey's Mom" to get over the one that dumped him. <--

Logan/Veronica 4EVAH!

[Kika]

http://www.tvguide.com/News/AskAusie...mDate=09212005

Question: You can't deny it! I have video evidence that you interviewed Veronica Mars' Jason Dohring on the red carpet at the Emmys. What did he have to say! Spill! — Jennifer

Ausiello: God, you people are everywhere! Yes, it's true, I cornered Jay (yeah, we're at that place already) just after he stepped out of his limo and asked him the question on everyone's mind that afternoon: Duncan or Logan? "That is really a hard question," he hedged. "It's really hard to think that she could be with Logan unless he undergoes some serious change, because they're not really on the same wavelength. They could be [together] for a passionate, you know, burst, but then he's just kind of a bad guy. But she's the only person who can really make him change, and in that sense they could totally be together. We'll see."

*

Question: Did you hear the news that Joss Whedon has agreed to do a cameo on Veronica Mars? He is going to play a rental-car manager in the sixth episode. — Renee

Ausiello: I know! I can't wait! I actually broke the news to Jason Dohring at the Emmys and he was thrilled... after I reminded him who Joss Whedon was.

*

Question: People keep asking about this season's "mystery" on Veronica Mars, but doesn't the preview clip on UPN give it away? It seems to show Weevil's sidekick, Felix, lying bloody on the ground with Logan as the suspect. Is that it, or have I been drinking the spiked Snapple again? — Dave

Ausiello: (MAJOR SPOILER ALERT) Who says there can't be several mysteries? Huh? Who, damnit!?!?!?! (Sorry, long week.)

[Platypus]

Thanks Kika!

You know, I just realized that we don't need to use spoiler font in a spoiler thread, so sorry for doing that in an earlier post.

As far as what Dohring said... I have to admit, I'm getting a bad feeling here. I'm not a die-hard Logan/Veronica shipper by any stretch, and I'm certainly open to whatever and wherever Rob Thomas wants to go, but...

Ok, here's the thing. This is starting to give off really bad shades of Buffy/Spike, and I'm so not interested in that. The whole "bad boyfriend" thing playing out makes me far more uncomfortable than a Kendall/Logan scenario, because I've already said I don't see Logan as in any way, shape or form equivalent to Connor (who had the maturity of an 8 year old, and to whom Cordy was a pseudo-mother figure). But I don't like the idea of playing off a triangle where one choice (Duncan?) is the first boyfriend, twu wuv obvious choice (Angel?), and the second "damaged" bad boyfriend is the one that the writers dangle in front of the fans but will never allow to happen.

I wasn't even ever a real Buffy/Spike shipper - I was open to it, but I would have similarly been ok with Buffy/Xander, or some other combination (except Buffy/Angel). But what I really disliked was the way they told the story, and wouldn't ever let it die to the point where it became a joke. (Much like C/A, but I digress).

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but this is the first thing that's truly made me nervous about the new season - the last thing I want is a replay of a Buffy/Spike/Angel triangle based on Buffy/Veronica choosing between first boyfriend/twu wuv/Duncan/Angel and damaged goods/bad boyfriend but hot chemistry/Logan/Spike.

Blech. Maybe it's just that I'm turned off by the fact that RT is sucking up so much to Joss Whedon. I didn't care when it was Joss Whedon slobbering over the show, but for Rob to return the saliva and reward it with a guest spot makes me a bit ill.

[KeyserSoze]

I actually thought it was encouraging. RT is the guy who created Cupid, after all. He knows love is messy. Logan's in more episodes than Veronica's current boyfriend and best friend are (if TD was in 22 we would have heard about it). The boy has major issues that he has to work through and I really like that V could eventually be the one that can help him. Of course, he ultimately has to help himself. I just like that someone sees that V can be a catalyst for change. You won't catch me comparing Duncan to Angel because...no. Veronica and Logan might not be on the same wavelength but at this point, neither are Veronica and Duncan anymore. They just don't know it yet.

We need more Kendall spoilers, dammit. They're up to ep 6 now. I wonder what else girlfriend has been up to during all that time.

Logan/Veronica 4EVAH Rob KTHNX

[Lovin' Lorne]

Question: Did you hear the news that Joss Whedon has agreed to do a cameo on Veronica Mars? He is going to play a rental-car manager in the sixth episode. — Renee

Ausiello: I know! I can't wait! I actually broke the news to Jason Dohring at the Emmys and he was thrilled... after I reminded him who Joss Whedon was.

LMAO!!! Sorry, I just couldn't let that slide by without some sort of comment.

[LaLa247]

I agree with Platy. This whole Duncan/Logan/Veronica triangle and JD's comment is giving me bad vibes of the B/S S6 mess kind. But since she said it better than I could...

Do we really believe that Logan is a bad guy? We know the guy has layers (unlike Donut), he's extremely troubled- he was an abused kid, daddy killed his girlfriend (after having an affair with her), mommy commited suicide (or DID she?!), and so on. Is he bad or misunderstood?

[silveragent]

Lala -- Logan staged bumfights. Nothing more need be said that he's a bad dude, as Jason said.

Platy -- ITA, and it's why I dropped the show. Back in the day I LOVED Cupid, but looking back I can see the same lame triangle stuff which IMHO just shows a lack of creativity and inability to give viewers stuff that makes them happy.

I agree that the Buffy/Spike/Angel stuff is replaying, and you'd think Joss's late run is an object lesson of what not to do. Just seems idiotic. Give viewers "what they need" instead of what they want and they tend to go elsewhere. Since VM doesn't have a huge cushion to me that spells early cancellation.

Veronica's shipped with waaaay too many folks already, to my mind she's more fun just hanging with Wallace and Meg and other folks. Instead of high-drama soapy stuff as you mentioned. I honestly don't know why Logan and Duncan are still around, IMHO the characters ran out their run.

To me Veronica showed the most promise exploring her social status as a "used to be" popular girl who's now an outcast and finds both exclusion and freedom in that new status. Her romantic stuff seems just ... dumb and as you mentioned repetitive.

A lot of Cupid IMHO just depended on Jeremy Piven's comic genius. RT I think is over-rated.

All that being said, I hope CC gets more opps out of this.

[KeyserSoze]

Originally Posted by LaLa247

Is he bad or misunderstood?

A little bit of both? The writers like Ruggiero seem to like the fact that Logan's a grey character that they can use and twist for dramatic purposes, yet also have him remain sympathetic. While I think that he's viewed as being a bad person by parts of fandom, I don't think the writers view him that way.

I think they view all of the characters, with the exception of possibly Wallace, as being grey. They've all got deep flaws. RT seems almost proud of the fact that V herself is flawed and not always sympathetic. Based on that email RT sent out, he seems to view Logan and Duncan as being on even footing, with both of them now considered 'legitimate suitors.' They don't view Logan as the bad boyfriend, although obviously the guy has a ton of issues to work out. I just think they view it as a way to mine more drama and angst out of the story. Normal is her watchword and at this point V sees Duncan as 'normal.'

Regardless of how I feel about Kendall/Logan, that's a pretty complicated storyline for a high school character to carry. I think the writers gave it to him because they think Logan as a character can handle it for this first part of the season. Eventually, he's got to come back to the fold. There's no point in having the character there if they weren't serious about him being viable.

[Andromeda7_4]

Originally Posted by silveragent

Lala -- Logan staged bumfights. Nothing more need be said that he's a bad dude, as Jason said.

BUT- the men were willing, right? He didn't coerce anyone; they did it for the money. That may not make it right; but is it really that much different from any other boxing match?

Back in the day I LOVED Cupid, but looking back I can see the same lame triangle stuff which IMHO just shows a lack of creativity and inability to give viewers stuff that makes them happy.

If you give viewers what makes them happy, the viewers tend to get bored.
(They always say they won't- and then they do anyway).

I agree that the Buffy/Spike/Angel stuff is replaying, and you'd think Joss's late run is an object lesson of what not to do. Just seems idiotic. Give viewers "what they need" instead of what they want and they tend to go elsewhere. Since VM doesn't have a huge cushion to me that spells early cancellation.

I'm surprised the show even got a renewal this season, so I don't really expect it to go forever. I just want to enjoy the run while it lasts.

Veronica's shipped with waaaay too many folks already, to my mind she's more fun just hanging with Wallace and Meg and other folks...
To me Veronica showed the most promise exploring her social status as a "used to be" popular girl who's now an outcast and finds both exclusion and freedom in that new status. Her romantic stuff seems just ... dumb and as you mentioned repetitive.

You may feel that way; but many viewers want romance, and that includes me! I would get bored with any show in which the lead has no love interest. RT has to try to appeal to as wide an audience as possible, esp. up against the current competition.

All that being said, I hope CC gets more opps out of this.

I think that is a given; her appearance is on a quality show that is getting noticed. How could that be a negative?

[Cantinera]

Originally Posted by Kika

Since some people may wish to avoid this spoiler, I thought it'd be best to put it behind a tag.

The person at the door is --->Logan.<---

Those without willpower can download an extended clip of that scene here. --->Poor Logan. I don't know what it is about him crying, but it always gets to me. <---

Ooh, thank you! I watched the clip and now my curiosity has been piqued more! I'm counting on you to help me see the show once it starts, Pirate!

[Kika]

Is Logan a bit of an ass? Absolutely. A bad guy? I wouldn't say so, personally. There's no doubt that the guy is screwed up, and the way he treated Veronica at times was shameful, but he's hardly the devil incarnate. The bumfights thing is moronic, but then so are many teenage boys. He's certainly not alone there. His actions toward Veronica, however wrong they may be, did come out of blaming her for his and Lilly's break up and ultimately her death. Screwed up logic perhaps, but it wasn't random targeting. And honestly, kids suck in high school. Once you're the outcast, you're an easy target for pretty much anyone. That's not to say I excuse him for what he did though, as I do in fact think that Veronica was pretty quick in forgiving him for what happened at the party.

And honestly, I have to say that Duncan isn't exactly a prize catch either. Aside from the fact he makes Groo look like an interesting character, his whole reaction to Veronica after finding out she could be his sister was downright low, especially after he slept with her. You can perhaps excuse his actions that night due to being drugged, but what came after it? I don't know. He left her to wake up alone in some strange house after knowing she was out of it the night before. With that amount of alcohol, she was likely to be a little hazy on the events, one would think. At least initially, anyway. But that didn't matter. Even afterwards, Duncan decided for the two of them not to bring it up again, because he basically felt bad that he slept with someone he believed could be his sister. If that's how you treat someone you supposedly love, I'd hate to see how he treats other people.

And well, let's not forget how he reverts to weird aggressive guy when he dislikes something. Let's hope Veronica doesn't really piss him off sometime.

Originally Posted by Cantinera

Ooh, thank you! I watched the clip and now my curiosity has been piqued more! I'm counting on you to help me see the show once it starts, Pirate!

Of course! It might be a bit chaotic for the first episode (if what happened with Lost is any indication) but I imagine it'll be available fairly quickly

[rolandro]

I guess for me, I don't look at this show as some kind of Buffy redo. Sure it's high school, and sure the girl is blonde, and was some kind of outsider, but that's as far as it goes. So all the love triangles just don't factor for me, because here, they're used to convey the shifting social ground Veronica finds herself on as much as anything emotional. Here they're set in motion to lead to betrayal, which usually has some kind of 09er smackdown attached to it and because, hey, it television and you got to go where the drama is. Like I said over on the LOST thread - I'm watching this show over LOST because there actually will be a mystery to solve this season versus the pretense of mystery you typically get from LOST and so many other shows.

As for CC, I think this is the big thing before the BIG THING. She's a critcal player (for at least 7 episodes) on a mature, critically acclaimed show in its SECOND SEASON and her participation is being maxed as positive by just about everything I read. She'll be eyecandy, and a bitch. That's got to be a good thing.

[Platypus]

Originally Posted by Kika

Is Logan a bit of an ass? Absolutely. A bad guy? I wouldn't say so, personally.

Nor would I - but that's precisely where I'm feeling shades of "been there, done that" with BTVS. Because there were plenty of people - who weren't named Silveragent! - who didn't think Spike was a bad guy by the end of Season 5, either. It wasn't supported by the scripts or the acting. He stood up to Glory rather than forking over Dawn, etc. But the writer's room led by Marti Noxon had it in their head that Spike was evil and irredeemable, and when the audience didn't get it they reinforced that interpretation through the events of Season 6.

So here we have Logan, who is definitely no saint, but was by all accounts one of the break-out characters of the season. For whatever it's worth, the Logan/Veronica ship seems to be much more popular than the Veronica/Duncan ship. But once again the interviews seem to be going out of their way to reinforce that it's WRONG to like Logan, or to like Logan/Veronica, etc. So that's where I'm seeing uncomfortable parallels - this reeks of giving the audience what it 'needs'. (But, as I said before, it's entirely possible that I'm just very turned off by the fact that Rob Thomas seems to be feeding the ego that just won't die.)

Aside from the fact he makes Groo look like an interesting character

[Kika]

Originally Posted by Platypus

So here we have Logan, who is definitely no saint, but was by all accounts one of the break-out characters of the season. For whatever it's worth, the Logan/Veronica ship seems to be much more popular than the Veronica/Duncan ship. But once again the interviews seem to be going out of their way to reinforce that it's WRONG to like Logan, or to like Logan/Veronica, etc. So that's where I'm seeing uncomfortable parallels - this reeks of giving the audience what it 'needs'. (But, as I said before, it's entirely possible that I'm just very turned off by the fact that Rob Thomas seems to be feeding the ego that just won't die.)

I absolutely understand your concerns. Some people thought my misgivings over Joss voicing his love for VM was an overreaction. Far from it, by the looks of it. I can only hope that unlike Joss, RT decides to go the other route, the one where they eventually realise that whilst it's normal for people to yearn for that first love, the one they lost, fantasy often doesn't live up to reality. Certainly, I think the Duncan in Veronica's head is not matched by the Duncan we now have.

That, and I do think UPN knows what they have in Jason Dohring and Logan. It's been interesting to see how Logan has moved up from simply a recurring character to appearing in what seems to be all 22 episodes this season. Wasn't he once considered not "handsome" enough to be the lead? How things have changed. I may be remembering this all wrong, but I think RT once mentioned in an interview that whilst the network wanted to make sure Veronica didn't become too unlikeable, he wanted to make sure she wasn't too likeable by having some of the choices she makes morally ambiguous. I guess I do still have faith in RT at this point, which may turn out to be totally misguided on my part, but should he force the point home that it's wrong to like Logan (and heck, if that's wrong then I don't want to be right) I wonder if the network would try to temper that decision. What happened on Buffy was hardly a ringing endorsement of such a policy.