25 Best and Worst AtS episodes

[samsmom]

According to Armchair Critic:

http://armchairc.blogspot.com/2008/1...-episodes.html

I definitely agree on a couple of his 'best' episodes, disagree on others.

[SamIAm]

I maintain the belief that any best of list that has a season four episode on it is deeply flawed and must be ignored.

[Livvie]

I can't believe I'm actually admitting this but you know, conversation topic and all.

I think Smiletime is one of the worst episodes of ATS. I think it's completely insulting. It isn't funny, not in the way ATS was funny in all the episodes before it. It loses the whole adult and dark themes of the previous seasons. It's just an excuse to turn Angel into a puppet and everyone make lame jokes about it.

I don't understand how anyone who is a fan of Angel can put it on a list of "best" episodes (especially when you leave off Hero!). And that is more for a plea for someone to explain to me rather than a judgement. I just don't get why that episode is so popular. (Then again, I don't see how you could put ANY S5 episodes on there, yes, even Fred's death)

That being said, I actually do like some of the episodes of Season 4, Jasmine aside. I was glad to see Faith back so yay for the Faith arc. And I thought the start of it, up to and including Spin the Bottle, wasn't bad. Not great tv but not bad. It's everything after that is just wtf-inducing.

[Morrigan]

Originally Posted by Livvie

That being said, I actually do like some of the episodes of Season 4, Jasmine aside. I was glad to see Faith back so yay for the Faith arc. And I thought the start of it, up to and including Spin the Bottle, wasn't bad. Not great tv but not bad. It's everything after that is just wtf-inducing.

The problem I have with the Faith arc was that it was more about getting Faith onto the show than it was about A:TS. I would have preferred if Wes' rouge group or some other people stepped up and we had the ATS characters fightening their own battle. To me that whole season, especially the ending seemed more about getting BTVs and Firefly people onto ATS.

Admittedly by the that point I thought S4 was so far off the track as far as good TV I didn't like anything about it.

ETA - I have to wonder, after all the crappy S4 epsidoes (can't comment on S5 since I didn't watch a single one, not even Your Welcome) is She still the worst A:TS episode ever? Really?

[Livvie]

Originally Posted by Morrigan

The problem I have with the Faith arc was that it was more about getting Faith onto the show than it was about A:TS. I would have preferred if Wes' rouge group or some other people stepped up and we had the ATS characters fightening their own battle. To me that whole season, especially the ending seemed more about getting BTVs and Firefly people onto ATS.

Even though Faith started out on BTVS, I always felt like she was better suited to Angel. In S1 of ATS, that is when we finally see the turn around, see the character development. I would have preferred if she would have just stayed with the AI team after she took care of Angelus. Granted, that would have made the cast bloated but in all honestly, I never liked Fred and would trade her for Faith any day of the week. Then again, didn't think we needed teenage Connor either. It was too much of an insert-a-kid-grow-em-with-SORAS plot device. (SORAS=Soap Opera Rapid Aging Syndrome).

I only saw S5 completely once, after I got the DVDs to complete my set. With the exception of You're Welcome, you ain't missing nothing. I actually think it's WORSE than S4. All the character development for four seasons went completely out the window and it became the Spike comedy hour. Don't get me wrong, I like Spike. I like Spike on BTVS. They should have let him had his hero's death.

[daydreamer]

Hmm...he does have quite a few S4 & S5 episodes. I didn't watch S5 except for Smile Time and You're Welcome. Smile Time was by accident because my sister watched it. She loved it and thought it was hilarious, but that's because she wasn't as into the show as I was and hadn't seen S3 or 4. I just pretended I wasn't watching ATS (which wasn't difficult). I think it made me laugh once, but then I felt dirty the next day. It sucked.

Originally Posted by Livvie

Even though Faith started out on BTVS, I always felt like she was better suited to Angel. In S1 of ATS, that is when we finally see the turn around, see the character development. I would have preferred if she would have just stayed with the AI team after she took care of Angelus. Granted, that would have made the cast bloated but in all honestly, I never liked Fred and would trade her for Faith any day of the week.

Good idea! I would have liked that.

[Dannyblue]

I loved "Smile Time." Maybe that was naughty and wrong of me, but it tickled me to death.

Also, in my opinion, season 5 started off really bad and got better and better as it went along. (Unlike the last season of BtVS, which started out promising and got worse and worse until it became nearly intolerable.) Season 5 definitely wasn't the best AtS could be, but it didn't sink to BtVS levels of badness, in my opinion. And "Not Fade Away" stomped all over "Chosen" as far as finales go.

And, yes, I do think seasons 4 and 5 had some good/great episodes. Then again, I like season four. Hate what they did to Cordy, but enjoyed the season overall.

As for Spike, I thought his possible death in the "Not Fade Away" (because I don't consider the comics canon) was way more heroic than in "Chosen." Then again, I think a lot of the "meaningful" moments in "Chosen" were pretty empty and unearned.

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by Morrigan

ETA - I have to wonder, after all the crappy S4 epsidoes (can't comment on S5 since I didn't watch a single one, not even Your Welcome) is She still the worst A:TS episode ever? Really?

I would say yes, only because She was horrifyingly bad at a point in the series' run when it was good. By the time the craptacular episodes of the fourth and fifth seasons came along, being horrifyingly bad was the norm for the series.

[DamnSkippy]

Originally Posted by Dannyblue

I loved "Smile Time." Maybe that was naughty and wrong of me, but it tickled me to death.

What made Smile Time one of the worst episodes for me was not the puppet capers, although the expression "how low can they go?" springs to mind. What makes it the worst for me is the tossing aside of the curse issue (which had been the source of Angel's angst for 7 years) in a matter of seconds in order to get Angel naked and make out with a woman with large breasts for rating purposes. And I guess that answers my question about how low they can go.

Also, in my opinion, season 5 started off really bad and got better and better as it went along. (Unlike the last season of BtVS, which started out promising and got worse and worse until it became nearly intolerable.) Season 5 definitely wasn't the best AtS could be, but it didn't sink to BtVS levels of badness, in my opinion. And "Not Fade Away" stomped all over "Chosen" as far as finales go.

IMO, S5 had only a smattering of decent episodes. "Numero Cinco" (because it at least tried to be a real Angel episode), "Damages," "You're Welcome" and "Origin." I don't include NFA just because they killed off Wesley and Gunn (for sure) and left us wondering about the rest. I like my series ending episodes not to leave me hanging. But, I agree, it was a much better finale than Chosen.

And, yes, I do think seasons 4 and 5 had some good/great episodes. Then again, I like season four. Hate what they did to Cordy, but enjoyed the season overall.

I don't totally despise S4. There were good things in there. And I have to admit that even though I hate aspects of it and what went on behind the scenes (which is really what makes me despise it), it did keep me glued to the set every week and wonder WTF was going to happen next. I had that same WTF reaction to S5, but not in a good way.

[Platypus]

Originally Posted by SamIAm

I maintain the belief that any best of list that has a season four episode on it is deeply flawed and must be ignored.

What SamIAm said. (Since I didn't watch any episode after the one that shall STILL not be named, I'm basing this on the episodes that I did see.)

And while "She" truly was schlocky, I still hold my (deeply unpopular at the time) opinion that "Tomorrow" was made of epic suckiness. If it weren't for that one episode that featured the thrusting, "Tomorrow" still holds for me as the worst AtS episode that I ever personally viewed. Followed, I guess, by "She". And then followed by the one where Buffy visited and ate ice cream off of Angel's chest, or something like that. (And then followed in random order by every episode that featured Connor - although some good has come out of it, because I get extra special pleasure out of hating Pete Campbell for reasons beyond those on screen when watching "Mad Men".)

Besides, any 'best of' list that doesn't include Rm w/a Vu is clearly not all that well thought out.

[jerry]

Originally Posted by Morrigan

ETA - I have to wonder, after all the crappy S4 epsidoes (can't comment on S5 since I didn't watch a single one, not even Your Welcome) is She still the worst A:TS episode ever? Really?

"She", at least, didn't do any lasting damage. But on it's own merits, I think it's still pretty close to, if not at, the bottom.

[tojoson]

To me, no worst 5 list is complete without "I Fall to Pieces".

And I like "Birthday" better than a lot of their top 25.

[samsmom]

I'll admit it, I don't see why She is considered so horrible.

It didn't have the best plot, but imo, the greater part of s4 is much, much worse. At least She didn't tear apart the team dynamic and character rape my OTC.

And it did have Angel's dork dance.

I watched one episode of s5, You're Welcome, and then only twice because it's too painful.

I don't agree with a lot of the picks, except Waiting in the Wings, because it includes too much s4 and s5, and didn't include Hero. How could that guy dismiss Doyle's sacrifice just because the episode included Nazi ripoffs? Pfft.

[Livvie]

Originally Posted by samsmom

I don't agree with a lot of the picks, except Waiting in the Wings, because it includes too much s4 and s5, and didn't include Hero. How could that guy dismiss Doyle's sacrifice just because the episode included Nazi ripoffs? Pfft.

I was thinking that too. I can't believe some of the stuff that he included and then he leaves off Hero. Okay, yes, Nazis, but still, the character development that Doyle went through in that episode alone is enough that it should be on that list.

[Dannyblue]

Originally Posted by samsmom

I'll admit it, I don't see why She is considered so horrible.

It didn't have the best plot, but imo, the greater part of s4 is much, much worse. At least She didn't tear apart the team dynamic and character rape my OTC.

I guess I have this strange ability to compartmentalize. I can intensely dislike one element of something while still liking other parts a lot. It's like books. I can hate the way a book ends, but still like other parts of it to re-read the book until the end, while I have friends who could be loving a book but, if they hate what happens in the last chapter, it ruins the whole book for them and they can never enjoy any of it again. I'm kinda glad I'm the former, but it does give me a unique perspective, I guess.

Same goes for season 5. Yes, I hated that Cordy wasn't there. Yes, I hated their attempts to make it "all about Buffy," even though most AtS fans didn't give two squats about her. And so on. But there were still parts of the season I liked.

As for "She," it remains atrocious in my opinion. Just blech. It deserves to be on any worst episode list.

I don't agree with a lot of the picks, except Waiting in the Wings, because it includes too much s4 and s5, and didn't include Hero. How could that guy dismiss Doyle's sacrifice just because the episode included Nazi ripoffs? Pfft.

Up until the final moments of "Hero," it really wasn't a great episode. Yes, the end was very touching. But, as a whole, I don't consider it one of the best eps of the series. Although that ending certainly shouldn't be dismissed.