AtS on TNT Discussion Thread

[Dannyblue]

This really was the Golden Age, my friends. It's like honey. You just want to lap it up.

Isn't "Billy" the one that had us wondering which parts were written by TM, and which by JB. Cordy was so good in this and, while we loved TM as a writer overall (I always loved his writing), we noticed that Cordy often got lost in his episodes in favor of "darker" characters. So a lot of us speculated that JB wrote most of the Cordy parts.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if TM wrote a lot of the Cordy stuff, because she's actually quite dark in this one. Well, for Cordy.

My favorite line was Cordy saying she was getting used to being creeped out and comforted at the same time. I also loved that Angel felt comfortable enough with her to describe how killing as Angelus was about "pleasure". I can't imagine him saying that to anyone else without looking all ashamed, maybe afraid of how they'd react. But, with Cordy, he was completely comfortable making the admission.

[felmitch]

Originally posted by Dannyblue
My favorite line was Cordy saying she was getting used to being creeped out and comforted at the same time. I also loved that Angel felt comfortable enough with her to describe how killing as Angelus was about "pleasure". I can't imagine him saying that to anyone else without looking all ashamed, maybe afraid of how they'd react. But, with Cordy, he was completely comfortable making the admission.

Dannyblue this was without a doubt one of the best Angel/Cordy scenes in the entire ep. It was so special because he wouldn't have done that with anyone else.

Watching these old eps just re-emphasizes how many good story possibilities ME dropped. So sad.

[LaLa247]

Actually, I think Cordy got quite a bit dark...for anyone. She was ready, willing, and able to kill this Billy dude with no questions asked and that was why Angel stopped her. Doing so would leave blood on her hands, and her blood innocence would be gone (It's X:WP all over again, I tell you!).

Originally posted by Dannyblue
My favorite line was Cordy saying she was getting used to being creeped out and comforted at the same time.

I liked the big smile he gave her as he made her admission over his admission a slight joke. It's nice.

[LaLa247]

Posting after myself- AGAIN. Ah, well...

TNT ran Souless last night, and I was somewhat surprised at how much I enjoyed it, nearly a year later. So, naturally, I have random thoughts-

- This was as close to Angelus as AtS had gotten (considering the Angelus that was presented in the next four episodes was a sad excuse for a villian). Loved the sinister angle he gave to the "Teddy Bears Picnic", the way he leered at everyone who came down to talk to him, and the way his eyes were so...they were completely dead- I totally give Boreanaz kudos here, he handled the ep exceptionally well.

- Like I've said before, I'm not into the whole "Angelus and Angel are separate people" shit, but for this episode it was suitable, considering it could've gotten messy.

- Angelus taunting Gunn and Fred- it still creeps me out. The music that played as he slowly dug into Fred was really appropriate, it was like Fred was seeing her "nice man" and her hero slip away to the monster that stood before her, and I think the look on her face showed that. He really stabbed her where it hurt- her trust- and it was one of the many good scenes in that episode.

- The look and change of tone/demeanor when Wes mentioned Cordelia- wow. It definitely looked like Angelus was just as pissed off as Angel was- beside the jab that he made (knowing the others were watching) he really didn't find ConCord amusing, did he?

- LOVED the first Not!Cordy/Angelus confrontation. The dialogue shot off rapidly and with enough sharpness to it. Loved it.

- Not!Cordy and Angelus confrontation was the right opportunity to reveal that Cordy wasn't Cordy and have Evil!Cordy and Angelus raising hell, but whatever. I mean, come on, when she told him to look into her eyes, he SO should've been able to have known that she wasn't Cordy.

- The whole Fred/Gunn/Wes triangle was absolutely ridiculous and really not appropriate in "Souless". It was really out of place. BUT, since it was there, I have to say I found it really hard to feel sympathy for either Fred or Wes. Gunn really was the one who got screwed over here.

- Perhaps (to me) one of the finest scenes was the one with Boreanaz and Vinnie. Those two really worked well off each other and it showed. The way Angelus got more sinister as soon as Connor was around and the way Connor's voice got almost child-like when the subject of Holtz came up- fine acting, indeed.

- Why didn't anyone say anything when Not!Cordy shut off the camera and the audio? Why didn't they come running down?

- The last scene between Not!Cordy and Angelus was downright tense and emotional. Liked it a lot.

- Sean Astin did an awesome job with the directing. Loved the camera pans and angles that he did. Very cool.

- When did Not!Cordy have the time to steal Angel's soul?

[Dannyblue]

I think the episodes after "Soulless" are the result of someone saying, "We can't let Angelus be too bad or the viewers will hold it against Angel." I think that's also why, all of a sudden, they started acting like Angel and Angelus were too totally seperate people. So that even if Angelus did things certain fans found totally disgusting, they wouldn't blame Angel for it.

Well, someone should have told them that we pretty much expect the worst from Angelus. Heck, we like to expect the worst of him. Look at the fic about him. And, even without thinking of Angelus as a totally seperate being, we don't let the things he does when he's evil effect how we see Angel...other than to understand the guilt he feels, and why he's trying to atone.

I have a hard time believing ME decided to do that arc the way it was done. I mean, look at the things they've had Spike do, then expected us to still sympathise with him. Heck, in season 7, he went on a killing spree, and was shown killing his victims and burying the bodies. But it wouldn't surprise me if the WB (which always gave ME less freedom than UPN) said, "Look, we can't leave the fans with an image of the lead, the hero, of one of our shows murdering people all over LA. So you can turn him evil. You can hint that he's doing bad things, even have him bragging about it. But you can't show it."

[jujube1013]

"Birthday" was on today, full of C/a goodness. here's a couple of thoughts.
when angel went to "see" the conduits they said Cordy was destined to die, my thoughts to them she was but skip and jasmine cooked up a plot for jasmine to come to earth, jasmine being a fallen higher being or not even a higher being(do we know she was a higher being for sure) skip took cordy w/o the ptbs knowing and when he "demonized " her her put jasmine in her to "incubate"
when skip told them that everything was pre-destined why would they believe him hello! bad guy

[LaLa247]

I wanna know who was whispering to Cordy, then proceeded to shove her out of Angel's body.

[tojoson]

WITW:

best line,
cordy: open the damn door
angel: kinda hard
cordy: kinda noticed

best action:
cordy: it's good it fades away quickly
angel :glances down, takes off jacket, covers groin

best combination:
cordy: and as long as nothing's taken off, (the look in her eyes when she says) 'or inserted', it's all good

[Jake]

Taped it over vacation and just watched again. What a great episode. I remember seeing it the first time, and thinking after that great ending, with the floating semi-demon Cordy, about the terrific storylines that would be forthcoming. That they never happened is incredibly disappointing.

ETA: other than WITW.

[tojoson]

today was 'the price' where the slugs invade the hotel, i'm stumped by something.

apparantly the slugs were trying to get away from conner (the destroyer) in the quartoth dimension. holtz usually refered to angel as angelus, and conner always listened to holtz and thought of angel as angelus, but when angel was questioning the slug in fred, she told him 'the destroyer was coming for you ANGEL'. that was the slug talking,
how did it know about angel, not angelus

[jujube1013]

TNT is starting all over again with "City Of..." on Fri. jan.09

[LaLa247]

Tonight was "Benediction".

I was thoroughly impressed with how Vinnie and Boreanaz portrayed their characters, especially with the mimicking of movements (same facial expressions, crossing their arms at the same time).

[jujube1013]

i was looking at CC's hair and i accidentally got her haircut in those last s4 eps

[Jake]

Watching "Tomorrow." Charisma is so great, and the rest of the crew is solid too. In hindsight, it is just sad. At the time, it held such potential. What a waste.

[QueenC]

Didn't actually see it today, but now that you mention it... I loved it when Fred was poking Angel with the stake as if to say "Don't you dare even think about getting too happy, buddy!"

I miss the way it was...


Lori