What Do You Think They Should Have Done

[jimmydean]

a lot of ppl have said this b4 in regards to buffy, but today when i saw buffy on fx in doppelgangblah when xander and buffy kinda come up together to whiny lame willow, i was thinking how nice it woulda been to make those 2 the duo and willow the outsider more often -esp. continuing that dynamic in the later yrs. when the problem was that anya and xander became the duo. so it could never JUST be xander and buffy. buffy coulda still had her riley and spike things, but buffy/xand woulda become best friends in the later yrs and always had the subtext. i think willow and giles were her best friends in the early yrs, and she definitely grew apart from willow and some of the total linkage between buffy/giles faded. the show never explored the full chemistry of those 2-and not sexually necessarily. thinking of the freshman, where buffy and xander connect so well as ppl there for each other that like each other - that could been the follow-through on the other relationship developments. i also think of them doing the disguise together in the iniative. if they had done that sorta thing all the time- it woulda been awesome - a lot like cordy/angel i think. but no, sex poodle anya [who i like, but wish hadn't made xander boring] never could let this duo develop cuz she was such a dependent horndog for xander. down girl!

[QueenC4707]

I like that idea. I was thinking a similar idea only at the end of season five. They're heading into the last battle in the alley, and all of sudden Angel hears a baby cry. He wakes up in his room at the Hyperion, and sees that Connor is still a baby in his crib. Cordelia walks in, sees Angel is still in bed, and says, "God, do I have to everything around here?" She then picks up Connor and starts give him a bottle. Angel thens realizes that all the stuff from the middle of season three to the end of season five was a bad dream.

Can I wake up and find out that everything from S3 to S5 was a bad dream?

This is a really great discussion, guys. It’s nice seeing people on a board being able to disagree with each other without World War III breaking out.

The 2 big things they did on Ats that IMHO started the show off on its slippery slope. Made all the regulars start dating and/or fancying every other regular, and then introduced a baby onto the show

I had a whole long rant written out on this and you summed it up in two sentences. That’s no fun. :/

Oh well, I’ll post the rant anyway.

I’ve had quite a few thoughts on this topic after watching the first seasons of Angel and catching up, and I have to say that 1-2 are my favorite seasons of the show. I tried to figure out where it derailed after that, and I have to say that the worst possible decision that the show ever made can be summed up in one word: Connor. I know this statement might be controversial and blind Connor hate is making me biased, but I really do feel that the downhill slide began as soon as baby Connor was introduced. After that, it seemed the show strayed farther and farther from its original premise “helping the hopeless” and became a convoluted mess of Oedipal and apocalyptic storylines and Magic Love Child #2, none of which I really cared for. While I adored the Darla arc of S2, and she should never have been knocked up and should’ve just been left as she was, with the possibility of bringing her back later for more fun and mayhem.

The inter-group romances turned the show into a "turgid supernatural soap-opera" and this was not a good thing. The show was best, IMO, when it was outwardly focused (i.e. helping the helpless), not focused on the personal lives of the AI crew.

I totally agree. Some romance would’ve been good to add human interest and heart (C/A, anyone?) but the in-group romances should never have taken over the show as they did.

Pylea - just no. The tone was too jarring after the darkness of S2, and it seemed more like a parody of Xena or Hercules than part of the Jossverse. Also, it started the trend of bloating the cast, first introducing Fred and Groo and building up Lorne as a regular. It would have worked better as a single ep - all five get sucked into Pylea, meet the parents, get captured, free the slaves, go home.

WORD. Pylea is a sore spot for me b/c it’s the place where I personally believe the Cordy character jumped the shark, but that’s a separate rant altogether. I would’ve done just the same thing, but can I make Groo never exist?

And my last issue is a rather odd one, and blame Doyle love for making me biased, but I really think it was a mistake to off Doyle so soon, particularly considering he was one of the original cast members. They should’ve kept him on for a season at least, then found a way to write (or kill) him off. It was just a strange and jarring move IMO, particularly given that the show was still its infancy.

When Doyle is killed, the visions go to the grave with him. If the members of AI claim to be detectives, then they can at least try to act more like them.

I am inclined to agree, simply b/c I didn’t like the way the Cordy character became all about her visions after that. Hey, if it would’ve saved me from the “higher being” and “possessed by Jasmine” arc, I’m definitely on board with that.

[evil_toady]

-BtVS s5:

Dawn is a potential Slayer. Xander is Glory, and Glory wants to open the Hellmouth. Buffy kills Xander. Spike is killed while trying to protect Dawn. The show ends with Buffy dying and taking Sunnydale down with her.

-AtS s3:

NO "love" triangles. Wes, Gunn, and Cordy date people outside of AI. C/A is left to subtext. Angel/Fred kinda-sorta romance (I'm no Frangel 'shipper, but I think it would've been best plot-wise). Lorne remains the somewhat shady figure he was in s2. No Groo. No Birthday. The visions get worse and worse as the season progresses, until Cordy's inevitably knocked comatose in the finale.


Does anyone here have an idea for a reworking of s4? I mean, aside from "no ConCord" and/or "no Cordevil," and not too C/A-centric (I like my 'shipfic, but find it tiresome when the show relies too much on romance). Right now, I have an idea for an overly complicated plot involving Cordy being pregnant with Illyria, and Wesley performing some sort of spell that leads to Illyria taking over Fred's body. Yeah, it's a bit ridiculous, but not that much more ridiculous than the show could be sometimes...

[nodakskip]

Well to go along with you story line....

The Powers think that Xander and Cordelia got raw deals so Cordelia is woken up in full health with no visions. Then she is pregnant but with Xander. She does the normal nine months and gives birth to him. Then he gets kidnapped to some other world (just not hell) and comes back like Connor all the right age. No pissed off kid.

Xander is only seen off and on during the season. Both remember they grew up together and dated. But now they have a wierd Mother/Son deal that is strange. As in Xander gets a date so Cordy has a little chat with the girl first about taking out her son.

Sounds wierd I know, but its 10000 times better then what we got on the show.

[psychofilly]

Originally Posted by evil_toady

-BtVS s5:

Does anyone here have an idea for a reworking of s4? I mean, aside from "no ConCord" and/or "no Cordevil," and not too C/A-centric (I like my 'shipfic, but find it tiresome when the show relies too much on romance)...

I'm not so sure about season four, but several of us took on season five, with Cordy, with consequences and not everyone wrote C/A 'shippy fic. Starlet2367, Lara, Myself, who else? I know there were several.

[jimmydean]

it's fucking five in the morning, so i'm just shooting the shit, but anyway, instead of messing with all this connor/ptb whatever . . . i think maybe wolfram and hart coulda somehow found cordy and got her down into this realm in their custody. and linsday could have been the one to find angel, what with his several season offscreen stalking of angel which definitely occurred anyway, than connor dies, because i decided. gunn and fred finally show us some sexual chemistry as they celebrate. wesley watches . . . while lilah watches him . . . ANYWAY.
ok, then lindsay and angel are forming this halting friendship as angel gets over the connor thing and is thankful to linsdey for finding him.
but then it gets complicated when wolfram and hart tries to blackmail angel [somehow] with the cordy thing. linsday feels torn between angel and w&h. maybe he's even playing behind the scenes to each side.
ummm, either faith or kate could come back and get involved in getting cordy out of w&h's clutches.
and right, the wesley/lilah thing gets tense with the cordy thing.
and yea, they go from there. halfbaked? oh well

[You're Welcome]

Originally Posted by LordKain

anyway here are some more candid thoughs from me I truelly belive arround mid season 3 Joss gave up on Angel and Buffy from the start of season 5 onwards and had a very poor attitude and philosophy and that was that he and the rest of the writters would take a great deal of money from the networks and get as much out of the actors as much as they could and when it ends it ends plain and simple and that is what I think lead to there downfall ie: Angel's cancellation and SMG quitting the role of Buffy that and pushing Spike down our throats every week and personally I think that the character of Spike was and is a giant cancer that manifested and swallowed both shows whole just like the worn out idea of Wolfman & Hart which should of dead and buried at the end of S3.

Giant cancer???

Go kill yourself?

[psychofilly]

Originally Posted by You're Welcome

Giant cancer???

Go kill yourself?

What, so if you have an opinion on Spike that you don't like, they have to kill themselves?

Groovy.

[You're Welcome]

Originally Posted by psychofilly

What, so if you have an opinion on Spike that you don't like, they have to kill themselves?

Groovy.

Yeah, I'm glad you understand. MY word IS law.

I have often been told I am a belligerent *%$£*$%. However, you'll notice I didn't tell them to kill themselves, I asked.

[Emmangel]

Originally Posted by You're Welcome

Yeah, I'm glad you understand. MY word IS law.

*checks* Um... no. Mine is pretty damn close though, so lay off the happy-go-lucky advice telling people to kill themselves, it's not funny.

*has no big stick of her own*

[Adrian_Tepes]

I just would have liked them to follow all the way thru on ANY storyline. Don't tease the audience that Dawn is important and then do nothing with her.

[psychofilly]

Originally Posted by You're Welcome

Yeah, I'm glad you understand. MY word IS law.

I have often been told I am a belligerent *%$£*$%. However, you'll notice I didn't tell them to kill themselves, I asked.

Wow, belligerent *and* def to sarcasm. Damn, shoulda used the font.

[LordKain]

Originally Posted by You're Welcome

Giant cancer???

Go kill yourself?

how about do do the same only make it slow and painful.

[KarKar]

[whinging] Can't we all just get along??? [/whinging]

Geez guys, if you're going to be offensive and criminally bent, you're supposed to use a smiley face that's actually smiling.

[skippcomet]

*sings offkey to the tune of Particle Man by They Might Be Giants*

Tentacle pr0n, tentacle pr0n,
Doing the things a tentacle can,
Tentacle pr0n