08-15-2005, 03:05 PM | #436 | |
Queen Charisma...
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~Charisma is my Wife, did ya know~ "I grow up in Quor Toth....A Hell Dimension" "Full of all sorts of things that you can't even imagine" |
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08-15-2005, 03:07 PM | #437 | ||
Dutchess of LaLaLand
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But I did like 'Home' and no-one can convince me that it wasn't the apex of 'Angel'. Quote:
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Lindsay merely huffed at her statement. "I see you're taking some for the team these days," he said, eyeing the cane she was still using. "Well, it's hard to top taking a dagger to the jugular, but I do what I can," Lilah shrugged. 'Shipping: CordyღAngel ~ LilahღWesley ~ ReginaღHook |
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08-15-2005, 03:12 PM | #438 | |
Queen Charisma...
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That's true, but jasmine still had a effect to Connor in someways I can't explain. Like how Angel and Connor were in the sewers talking. They both know, she wanted them.
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~Charisma is my Wife, did ya know~ "I grow up in Quor Toth....A Hell Dimension" "Full of all sorts of things that you can't even imagine" |
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08-15-2005, 03:15 PM | #439 | |
Dutchess of LaLaLand
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The Jasmine-arc had many flaws, and I'm not even going to try to write them all down, but I guesse if you wanted to believe in Jasmine, you could hear her.
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Lindsay merely huffed at her statement. "I see you're taking some for the team these days," he said, eyeing the cane she was still using. "Well, it's hard to top taking a dagger to the jugular, but I do what I can," Lilah shrugged. 'Shipping: CordyღAngel ~ LilahღWesley ~ ReginaღHook |
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08-15-2005, 03:24 PM | #440 | |
Queen Charisma...
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That's possibilty, but Joss never really explain the whole Jasmine-arc. Which I really hate, because there was alot of things I didn't understand.
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~Charisma is my Wife, did ya know~ "I grow up in Quor Toth....A Hell Dimension" "Full of all sorts of things that you can't even imagine" |
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08-15-2005, 03:29 PM | #441 | |
Dutchess of LaLaLand
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But not because he put Connor in a happy family but because a) He erased Connors memory out of his friends memory. You don't mess with the minds of your friends! b) He only thought about the luxery benefits of W&H and I felt like he lost the mission in the end (again). c) He never said a word about Cordelia. While he should have demanded her immediate reviving by his new employees.
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Lindsay merely huffed at her statement. "I see you're taking some for the team these days," he said, eyeing the cane she was still using. "Well, it's hard to top taking a dagger to the jugular, but I do what I can," Lilah shrugged. 'Shipping: CordyღAngel ~ LilahღWesley ~ ReginaღHook |
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08-15-2005, 03:30 PM | #442 |
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Mind wiping supposed friends/family without their knowledge/permission wasn't entirely altruistic though was it? Personally, the moment Darla walked in pregnant my complusvie need not to miss a single episode started to wane.
The mention earlier of Lindsey staking Darla would have been a brilliant idea, and who knows where that would have taken AtS. *sigh* I actually like VK, but introducing a baby into the show in the first place was a mistake, never mind bringing him back as a screwed up teen, imo. Following Cordelia's demonization (so much for the 'humanising effect' Doyle spoke of ) then the return of the slug (who I will believe to this day wore an aphrodisiacal aftershave throughout the arc) ...missing episodes just didn't seem such an awful thing me any more. As I didn't really watch Season four and none of S5, I'll instead read on here what other members made of it. Thank God for C/A fanfic, lol. Last edited by califi; 08-15-2005 at 03:33 PM. |
08-15-2005, 03:44 PM | #443 | ||
*My* Angel eats nuns.
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And in the process he mind rapes his friends and imo acts just as evilly as Jasmine did to Cordy by taking away their free will. We see how well those happier memories turned out. Cordy, Fred, and Wes dead, and Gunn bleeding to death in a stinky alleyway, Lorne made into a murderer (Lorne for gods sake!) Lindsey back and then dead. I choose to believe that the utterly boneheaded reason Lindsey came back was a side effect of the spell. Yay for Angel, he saves his son, but at the expense of everyone else. So selfless, that Angel, so noble.
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"Great, now I'm gonna be stuck with serious thoughts all day." (Cordy) "They say that inside every fat woman there is a skinny woman just waiting to get out...well, I ate that bitch." Last edited by psychofilly; 08-15-2005 at 04:09 PM. |
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08-15-2005, 04:05 PM | #444 |
a.k.a. Danielle
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I never had a problem with the mindwipe, and I never thought it was an easy way out for Angel. I remember watching "Home", and seriously trying to think of a way out for Connor, but I couldn't. It just seemed like no amount of talking or understanding was gonna help at that point, because I think he'd had a psychotic break by "Home". Either Angel was gonna have to kill him to keep him from hurting other people, or he was gonna be locked up in a rubber room somewhere. And maybe a decade or two of therapy could eventually have helped him. But if those were two of your choices, and someone gave you a third choice where the person you loved would be alive and happy, which one would you take?
I'd take choice number three, even though it involved altering the memories of my friends...which I guess is kind of selfish on some levels, but I still probably would do it.
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08-15-2005, 04:14 PM | #445 | |
*My* Angel eats nuns.
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"Great, now I'm gonna be stuck with serious thoughts all day." (Cordy) "They say that inside every fat woman there is a skinny woman just waiting to get out...well, I ate that bitch." |
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08-15-2005, 04:39 PM | #446 |
Wooo!
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I think the mindswipe was always a catch-22. I can understand why Angel did it, and I don't even blame him for it, but I also wouldn't have blamed Wes and Co. for popping a cap in his ass for it. Really, that was his son. Your child always wins over your friends.
And I was one of the handful that loved Connor. I hated the way he was mid-S4, they turned him into such a whiny dumbass, but I just thought the kid definitely had a reason to be so angry and fucked up- he grew up in a hell dimension with a man who attempted to leave him alone on several occasions (Habeus Corpses), then went into this new world with the dad he didn't remember and so on and so forth. I don't blame him. BUT, I do think Vinnie was trying to turn Connor into what the *writers* should've- a feral, confused, angry "man-child"...not the whiny, Dawn-lite teenager that they did. They had a chance to turn Connor into a deep, emotional, fascinating character, and produce a great storyline for it, but they ruined it. It was frustrating, for both the audience and probably Vinnie, in my opinion. Vinnie deserved a medal for putting up with ignorance the writers put forth, and even if you hated Connor, you have to admit that Vinnie put his all into it. It was just a shame they wasted probably the most talented actor they had on either show. ETA: Watching "Home" just now, Vinnie really gave everything he had into that role. And he and Boreanaz had chemistry, dammit. Grr. ETA2: Amy Acker for Claire in The Time Traveler's Wife movie! Adrien Brody and AA all the way.
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Charisma's Bitch #1 "Treat everyone the same until you find out they're an idiot." -- Lucy Lawless President Bush DID have a sure fire plan to end the war in Iraq, However Chuck Norris was busy that day. Last edited by LaLa247; 08-15-2005 at 05:08 PM. |
08-15-2005, 05:06 PM | #447 | ||
Join Date: Apr 2005
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I did enjoy S5, but it also the first Angel season I watched in its entirety (I mostly only started watching AtS b/c I was a huge BtVS fan) so I probably would've had different opinions if I'd watched from the start. Now that I caught up, I see S5 a little differently, and I think it's much easier to enjoy if you are a BtVS fan who never really watched Angel before. I can certainly see why you guys have the opinion of it that you do. Quote:
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08-15-2005, 10:10 PM | #448 |
Join Date: May 2004
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Connor was a character that had potential, but they made him too wishy-washy. They could never go one way or the other with him. One week he was completely hating Angel. The next week it would seem like he's starting to figure out that Angel is not the bad guy. They drug the storyline on way too long, and Connor suffered from it. Season 3 they built up this big storyline between Connor-Holtz-Angel-Sahjhan, but then there was no payoff to it. The Connor-Cordelia was by far the worst thing they ever did storyline wise. I loved the Connor that appeared in Origin and Not Fade Away. Had they gone with that version of the character sooner, I think the character would have gone over better with the audience.
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08-16-2005, 03:42 PM | #449 | |
Queen Charisma...
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08-16-2005, 03:48 PM | #450 | |
*My* Angel eats nuns.
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