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Old 07-22-2007, 10:56 PM   #16
Lovin' Lorne
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I'm still sticking with my earlier decision that the 'epilogue' was cheesy but it does give everyone the big "awwww" so I forbear.
It was cheesy, but I loved it too.

I figured that Harry was going to end up with Ginny and Ron with Hermione, because, hello, sledge hammer, but that was more than okay because it was never a problem for me. I figured that we'd have a James and a Lilly in there as far as kids went and I thought it was fitting that Harry had a son named Albus. What got me though was that it was Albus Severus. Harry grew up a lot - more than his own dad ever did, didn't he?
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Old 07-23-2007, 04:30 AM   #17
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I know there is a love of the epilogue here but I could have done without it. Honestly? The last chapter was enough of a bow for me. I wanna draw my own conclusions about the later years, dammit!

Also, this line: "...Granddad Weasley would never forgive you if you married a pureblood." It left a bitter taste in my mouth. Didn't you fight a war that had a basis in discrimination not 20 years ago? Vicious cycle, people, vicious cycle.

Still, I loved the book. It was great reading and really enjoyable. The Harry/Draco/Elder Wand thing is a bit perplexing but I'll read through it again in a couple days and spot what I missed.

Happy Reading to those who still have their books cracked open!
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Old 07-23-2007, 05:25 AM   #18
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I know there is a love of the epilogue here but I could have done without it. Honestly? The last chapter was enough of a bow for me. I wanna draw my own conclusions about the later years, dammit!
I know exactly what you mean. I was quite happy for it to end where it had, since what occured in the Epilogue was rather obvious anyway. Plus, we found out nothing of the trio except they got married and had kids.

If there had to be one, I'd have much preferred it to be set a year or so later, and be allowed to see how all the characters (not just the trio) were coping with the aftermarth, and how the wizarding world also was coping with re-building. I want to know what they were planning to do with their lives, as it'd give us an indication, but allow us to make up our own minds as to what they would choose to do.

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Also, this line: "...Granddad Weasley would never forgive you if you married a pureblood." It left a bitter taste in my mouth. Didn't you fight a war that had a basis in discrimination not 20 years ago? Vicious cycle, people, vicious cycle.
I thought that too. In fact Ron left a slightly bad taste in my mouth after that chapter. He'd grown during the book, and then we hear him casting spells on Muggles to pass his driving test and creating the start of animosity between the younger generations. Granted we have no idea of what Draco's son is like but it seemed like he was referring to all purebloods, and not just that family. Of course that's still as bad, since while we don't know what side the Malfoy family now lie, it helps stop the chance of that child becoming good (if his family is still on the 'dark side'). It instills unfair impressions upon a young child who's fate is still open.

Loved the rest of the book though, and it's trio centered focus. The subtle Harry/Hermione moments helped of course.

Also, Neville totally rocked. I can't wait to see his story transferred to screen, though it'll probably make me cry like a small child.
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Old 07-23-2007, 07:56 AM   #19
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I was surprised at how affected I was by Dobby's death as well - and even more surprised by how much I liked the Kreacher story in this book.
Agree, on both cases. I cried for Dobby and was surprised at how much Kreecher's story bothered me.

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I feel the exact same way. There's a big part of me that selfishly wants more stories about Harry/Ron/Hermione, but I am content with the way things ended up. And in a few years, if Rowling decides to write about Albus, Rose, Hugo, James and Lily (and even Scorpius), I think I'd be first in line to pick up the book.
I'm fine with the ending as well, if I need to read more about these characters there's always fanfiction.

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The thing about Fred dying is that it makes me feel mostly sad for George. Earlier in the book, when Fred is freaking out about George's injury, it was a reminder about how connected and close those two are. So, as Dumbledore advised, I don't pity the dead - I pity George, because he will never be the same.
And that's true to, as sad I was that Fred died (and I did give a yell for the East) it was Percy's and Ron's reactions to the death that broke me.

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And I think part of the reason I'm still on the fence about Tonks and Remus dying is that it leaves their baby an orphan in much the same way Harry (and Neville) were left orphaned. But one of my favorite parts of the Epilogue was the reference to Teddy Lupin eating dinner at the Potters' house 4 nights a week - I think it was a nice way to demonstrate that even though Teddy was orphaned, he still grew up around people who loved him, so in that way he didn't have to suffer the way Harry did.
That is what bothered me about Remus and Tonks as well and I think that's why they had to die. It was so sad to me that Remus was finally happy and a father. To see the two of them die, leaving the small baby behind, just reminded me so much of James and Lily that it really through me for a loop. Again, I felt bad for little Teddy and for Harry, but not so much for Remus and Tonks which I think is because they were together. Don't know if that makes much sense but it's the best I can do in my pre-morning coffee state.

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Oh, and I forgot to mention - the other great part of the Epilogue? Neville as Herbology Professor at Hogwarts. I hope he's also the head of Gryffindor house.
I love Neville! Who would have thought that in Book 1 he'd have turned out to be so awesome? I'm not sure if I read it right but did he pull Godrick Gryfindore's sword out of the hat at the end in order to kill Nagini? It really made my Neville love go sky high when out of all of them he was the one upon seeing Harry dead that acted to fulfill Harry's last request, kill Nagini.
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Old 07-23-2007, 08:17 AM   #20
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I love Neville! Who would have thought that in Book 1 he'd have turned out to be so awesome? I'm not sure if I read it right but did he pull Godrick Gryfindore's sword out of the hat at the end in order to kill Nagini? It really made my Neville love go sky high when out of all of them he was the one upon seeing Harry dead that acted to fulfill Harry's last request, kill Nagini.

*hangs head in shame* I used to laugh when people told me they thought Neville was destined for greatness. Of course that way of thinking on my part pretty much dissapeared after the fourth book, but I still feel guilty about it.

And yes, he did pull Gryffindor's sword from the Sorting Hat to kill Nagini. It was one of those "I need a tissue parts" of the book for me, but I saw it quite clearly.
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Old 07-23-2007, 09:45 AM   #21
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And yes, he did pull Gryffindor's sword from the Sorting Hat to kill Nagini. It was one of those "I need a tissue parts" of the book for me, but I saw it quite clearly.
Oh please, I started crying over Neville when the Trio showed up and he tells them that his Gram was proud of the little rebellion he was leading at Hogwarts

However, yes that whole scene with Neville standing up to Voldemort was read with a tissue in hand.
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Old 07-23-2007, 09:50 AM   #22
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I have to wait on my re-read. The son has the book now and he's the slowest reader on the planet I swear!! lol
I gave it to him when he came home from work last night at 9:30 (yes LL our baby boy now has a job) And this morning he's on..........CHAPTER 2!!!! Come ON Child read already......lol
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Old 07-23-2007, 09:55 AM   #23
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Shut up! Driving AND a job!? I feel as old as Neville's Gran.

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Oh please, I started crying over Neville when the Trio showed up and he tells them that his Gram was proud of the little rebellion he was leading at Hogwarts
Tell me about it! I even started crying when Gran came through the portrait to join the battle!
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Old 07-23-2007, 09:56 AM   #24
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I love Neville! Who would have thought that in Book 1 he'd have turned out to be so awesome? I'm not sure if I read it right but did he pull Godrick Gryfindore's sword out of the hat at the end in order to kill Nagini? It really made my Neville love go sky high when out of all of them he was the one upon seeing Harry dead that acted to fulfill Harry's last request, kill Nagini.

Neville PWNS!!! (Or, as I gather the cool kids like to say now, Neville is made of WIN!!!) Yes, he pulled Gryffindor's sword out of the hat, the same way that Harry was able to do so in CoS. I've really liked Neville ever since OotP - actually, scratch that - I think I've had a soft spot for him ever since he stood up to Harry/Hermione/Ron in the first book. And I loved that he finally won his grandmother's approval, too.

I kind of get what people don't like about the epilogue, but my own theory is that JK wasn't so much interested in telling us what happened to everyone - on the contrary, what she really wanted to do in the Epilogue is show us that Harry finally had what he'd wanted all his life - a large and loving family. Ever since he looked into the Mirror of Esired, and Dumbledore told him that it showed your deepest desire, I've known that what Harry really wants is what was stolen from him. And so she set the Epilogue far enough in the future so that the readers would know that Harry had a wife who he loved, and three kids, and that Hermione/Ron and their kids were still part of his extended family. I think the mention of Hagrid and Neville was included not to tell us about Hagrid and Neville, but to tell the reader that Harry still had those two people in his life as well, and that they were still close.

I know the books were very much about Harry first, and the Trio second, but Neville to me has always been the fourth in the group to mirror James/Sirius/Lupin and Pettigrew. Neville was more of an outcast like Pettigrew, but as early on as CoS he was usually the one to join the Trio whenever a fourth was called for - he would sit with them on the Hogwarts Express, etc. And unlike Pettigrew, he did not betray them - he stayed loyal through everything. So in a way, including the line about "Send Neville our love" was meant to round out Harry's foursome of friends to show that he had what James wasn't able to hold onto. I think.

I think the other reason the Epilogue was set so far in the future was to show Harry coming full circle, and sending his kid off into Hogwarts.
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Old 07-23-2007, 10:16 AM   #25
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Epilogue is show us that Harry finally had what he'd wanted all his life - a large and loving family. Ever since he looked into the Mirror of Esired, and Dumbledore told him that it showed your deepest desire, I've known that what Harry really wants is what was stolen from him. And so she set the Epilogue far enough in the future so that the readers would know that Harry had a wife who he loved, and three kids, and that Hermione/Ron and their kids were still part of his extended family. I think the mention of Hagrid and Neville was included not to tell us about Hagrid and Neville, but to tell the reader that Harry still had those two people in his life as well, and that they were still close.
Agreed, or "What Platy Said"

I think the point was to show that after all of the suffering he endured he got what he always wanted, a family.

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I know the books were very much about Harry first, and the Trio second, but Neville to me has always been the fourth in the group to mirror James/Sirius/Lupin and Pettigrew.
i don't know, maybe it's because I've always liked Ginny but I really saw her as the 4th and ever since OoTP, I saw Neville and Luna as 5 and 6. I actually loved that in a sense Ginny/Neville/Luna formed their own little Trio at school while Harry/Hermione/Ron were off on their own.

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I think the other reason the Epilogue was set so far in the future was to show Harry coming full circle, and sending his kid off into Hogwarts.
Yep, so much of book 7 was like a full circle, it almost seemed fitting that the book ended on Platform 9 3/4.
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Old 07-23-2007, 10:18 AM   #26
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I kind of get what people don't like about the epilogue, but my own theory is that JK wasn't so much interested in telling us what happened to everyone - on the contrary, what she really wanted to do in the Epilogue is show us that Harry finally had what he'd wanted all his life - a large and loving family.
Agreed. I was saying over on LJ that I honestly couldn't care less what everyone was doing in the future, as far as jobs and such. I was just glad to see that the gang had reached their mid to late 30's by this point. And as I was reading it, I was beside myself that Harry finally, FINALLY had everything that had been taken away from him as a child and was obviously making sure that Teddy Lupin didn't have to go through the same pain that he did. I think that's why I'm okay with it as it stands.

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I know the books were very much about Harry first, and the Trio second, but Neville to me has always been the fourth in the group to mirror James/Sirius/Lupin and Pettigrew.
I never looked at it that way, but you're right. Thinking back, Pettigrew was the fourth man, but always, IMHO, sort of on the fringes. Like maybe he was more of a hanger on that the others tolerated more than an actual friend. Neville sort of gave off the same vibe there for a while, but as he gained more confidence in himself, he really blossomed in a way Pettigrew never did. When push came to shove, Pettigrew showed his true colors by jumping to what appeared to be the "winning" side, and betraying the very people whom he aspired to be like. When push came to shove for Neville, he didn't abandon those he aspired to be like; he took over Harry's role at the school, he became the role model. He fought, he schemed, he resisted and when push came to shove, it didn't matter to Neville if he was on the winning side or not, he was sticking with his friends and his beliefs. Yes, the story was all about Harry, but Neville's transformation was nothing short of brilliant too.
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Old 07-23-2007, 11:09 AM   #27
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Harry grew up a lot - more than his own dad ever did, didn't he?
Well, to be fair, his dad never had the chance that Harry had or faced the trials that Harry faced. Sure, there were times when James was an "abominable toerag", but I'd like to think that he was well on the way to settling down into Harry-like person when he died to save his wife and son.

As to the comment that Ron made about marrying purebloods, I think he was teasing the kids. Being pureblood himself, it's highly unlikely he's been harboring anti-pureblood feelings deep down all his life. Nor do I think any real animosity was started. I think the point of the ending ending, the part where Harry mentions that his scar hasn't burned in all those years, is that the last of the darkness is really and truly gone. I don't know that everyone in the wizarding world is living in love and flowers and fuzzy little kittens, but I do think the wizarding world is certainly at real peace. Moreso than at any time since Voldemort originally begin his ascent to power.

I liked and disliked most of what the rest of you have already mentioned, so I won't go over it all again. I cried buckets too throughout the book, over Hedwig and Dobby, over George's ear and Mad-Eye and then over Ron's disappearance, and finally over Fred and Lupin and Tonks. (I thought at first that maybe Lupin and Tonks were not really dead. They 'looked like' they were sleeping, and I couldn't believe JKR would leave Teddy an orphan.) But I cried most as Harry was seeing his parents and Sirius and Lupin as he walked to meet his fate. There was something truly poignant about that little period--about Lily telling him he was brave, and Sirius trying to bolster his confidence about how easy it was to die. And Harry *knowing* he was going to die, and yet moving forward anyway.

I got a little muddled in the explanation. I got the tethered part, and the double bond, but I'm still not certain about why Harry was the real owner of the wand, or when the wand chose Draco. I need to reread the final couple of chapters again; I think I was hurrying a bit by the time I got there.

Yes, the epilogue was a little cheesy, and yes, it wasn't anything that hasn't been telegraphed since the beginning of the series. But I still liked it. Maybe I'm cheesy, too. (Maybe?? Hee!) I love that the ending really was OBHWF--insomuch as it could be, anyway, with poor Fred gone. I do wish the epilogue had included more about what exactly happened during the immediate aftermath of the book, but I'm mostly content with what we got. And I wouldn't be surprised if Jo didn't jump so far ahead just to make it clear and without doubt exactly how everyone ended up well into the future (and past the point where many fanficcers are interested in writing about. Middle-aged parents aren't nearly as exciting as teenagers in lurve. )

Speaking of Weasleys, I was awfully glad to see Percy returned to the collective family fold. You know, I didn't even think of what he was thinking as Death Eaters took over the Ministry. I think I've thought as little as possible of him during his lengthy estrangement from the family.

Oh, and Ron's disappearance. I didn't think of it as particularly OOC while I was reading it. And now, thinking a little more deeply about it, I'm still not sure it's not something he wouldn't have done. While his more attractive characteristic to me is his utter loyalty and heart, I think his strongest weakness is self-doubt and lack of belief in himself. His walking away from Harry and Hermione precipitated his reapparance and rescue of Harry and also his being able to pull out Gryffindor's sword. And, not necessarily least of all, his and Harry's heart-to-heart about the feelings between Harry and Hermione and Harry getting a chance to see just the kinds of things that niggled in Ron's brain. So while it wasn't Ron's best moment, certainly, it was something that drove the story in a forward direction and allowed other, more positive things to take place. At least, that's what I'm telling myself.

All in all, I would say that was a pretty deeply satisfying book, and an ending that was predictable in the very best way--it ended up just the way it should have ended.
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Old 07-23-2007, 11:24 AM   #28
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Well, to be fair, his dad never had the chance that Harry had or faced the trials that Harry faced. Sure, there were times when James was an "abominable toerag", but I'd like to think that he was well on the way to settling down into Harry-like person when he died to save his wife and son.
Yea, I know it's a bit harsh, and yea, he did seem to have grown up quite a bit before his life was over, but I guess what I was trying to get at was that it didn't take Harry 30 something years to get there. He'd gotten there by age 17, which is huge for a teenager to do. Granted, he was thrown into a situation where he had to grow up fast and James wasn't, but from what I've read, IMO, I don't think James would have been able to do half of what Harry did had the positions been reversed.
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Old 07-23-2007, 12:06 PM   #29
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Yea, I know it's a bit harsh, and yea, he did seem to have grown up quite a bit before his life was over, but I guess what I was trying to get at was that it didn't take Harry 30 something years to get there. He'd gotten there by age 17, which is huge for a teenager to do. Granted, he was thrown into a situation where he had to grow up fast and James wasn't, but from what I've read, IMO, I don't think James would have been able to do half of what Harry did had the positions been reversed.
I don't think anyone else in the world could have done half of what Harry did. Harry was thoroughly unique because of his birth, the circumstances of his parents' death, the nature of his upbringing--all those things worked together to make Harry what he was, and that's why he and he alone was the Chosen One. Of any of the rest of them, I think Neville might have come closest, because Neville's life was not completely dissimilar from Harry's. But I don't believe Neville could have done it either. It's what made Harry Harry.

And this is trivial, I know, but I don't think it would have taken James 30-something years either. I'd put James and Lily in their early 20s when they died, and I think early-20-something James was not at all the same person as the James we saw in Snape's pensieve memory. I think it's unfortunate that the only time we really saw young James was in Snape's pensieve, because that was such a one-sided event. The more I think about it, the more I hope somewhere somehow Jo goes back to write the story of the Marauders, and of Snape and Lily. I just feel like there's so much there we don't know, and it'd be a real shame if we never find out.
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Old 07-23-2007, 12:10 PM   #30
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Here's something you all might like.

Jo reading the first chapter of the book

Thanks Mugglenet.com!

ETA - Just a funny coincidence, but one of my most disliked bosses at work was named Yaxley! lol!
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