interesting article on angel show and cast

tojoson · 05-12-2006, 06:45 PM

very good read of Angel shiow and cast

link

someone who thinks a lot like some of us

samsmom · 05-12-2006, 07:56 PM

I agree with him for the most part, except that I have a rancid hatred for S5 and don't find anything redeeming about it, except YW, of course.

But I always love to read about someone who loves Cordelia.

Aren't nearly enough Cordy fans out there, far as I'm concerned.

cherelli · 05-12-2006, 09:49 PM

I really enjoyed that article, the pictures, and the memories. Fortunately my love for this show wont, Fade Away. Thank you, thank you.

Cheryl

DamnSkippy · 05-12-2006, 10:11 PM

I don't agree with his assessment of CC's S4 acting. She did the best she could do with the crap she was given. "Give mama some sugar." Blech. "We're special, Connor." Yeah. Special ed.

When the writers aren't sure what they're doing with a character, the director can't be sure and the actor definitely is left floundering. Once she definitely knew she was supposed to be evil, I think she did some fantastic, subtle work. She couldn't play Aus *fun* evil. She had to walk a fine line of playing Cordy playing good while being Evil!Cordy. Not really an easy thing to do. When she was finally exposed as evil to the gang, I think she really started to shine when the crappy dialogue didn't get in the way.

IMO, the suckfest that was Evil!Cordy rests solely on the shoulders of the writers.

Mr.Brightside · 05-13-2006, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samsmom

I agree with him for the most part, except that I have a rancid hatred for S5 and don't find anything redeeming about it, except YW, of course.

"Your Welcome" as well as "Origin".

baba · 05-13-2006, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamnSkippy

I don't agree with his assessment of CC's S4 acting. She did the best she could do with the crap she was given. "Give mama some sugar." Blech. "We're special, Connor." Yeah. Special ed.

When the writers aren't sure what they're doing with a character, the director can't be sure and the actor definitely is left floundering. Once she definitely knew she was supposed to be evil, I think she did some fantastic, subtle work. She couldn't play Aus *fun* evil. She had to walk a fine line of playing Cordy playing good while being Evil!Cordy. Not really an easy thing to do. When she was finally exposed as evil to the gang, I think she really started to shine when the crappy dialogue didn't get in the way.

IMO, the suckfest that was Evil!Cordy rests solely on the shoulders of the writers.

I agree! CC did her best with that crap of a story arc she was given! And it probably wasn´t easy to take part in destroying a character which has been so carefully developed for the previous three seasons! It wasn't a pleasant job and I think she did great! After three seasons of being by far the best developed character on the show, it must have been hard for Charisma to see it all ripped apart! SO I think in that regard he should give CC a break!

brownsbros3 · 05-13-2006, 04:19 PM

It was an interesting article. There were some things that I'll agree on, while others I do not.

"I personally feel that the series was at its very best during the first three seasons, but the show remained one of the sharpest, most entertaining television series during its entire run."

The first three seasons were great. The last two sucked.

"The incredible cast really deserves much praise for their always convincing and increasingly complex portrayals."

To me there was not a weak link in the entire cast. Now the writing team, that's another story.

"The first three seasons also marked the final transformation of Cordelia (Charisma Carpenter) from rich Sunnydale bitch to compassionate heroine, and her character's arc is the most compelling in the series."

"Carpenter is easily one of the beautiful and natural actresses on the small screen, and her charismatic presence is one of the driving forces behind the success of the series first three seasons."

No argument here.

"In fact, the "Loyalty/Sleep Tight/Forgiving" trilogy of episodes is a tour de force for Denisof, who easily should have received an Emmy nomination for his sublime performance."

I hated those three episodes. I felt like they were among the worst in the history of the show.

"Though lovely Amy Acker has great charm and grace, Fred is easily the most one-note lead character in the series, and there are a few times when her presence in the series feels awkward. Fortunately, Fred continues to grow throughout the season, and will finally come into her own during the fourth and fifth seasons."

While I liked Fred, she got more screen time than she really should have. Amy just does not have that lead female presence that Charisma did.

"Some viewers grumbled with the third season addition of Vincent Kartheiser as the teenaged Connor, but his plight is genuinely moving and Kartheiser plays the somewhat unlikable character as well as possible."

I thought Vinny K did a good job with Connor, but I didn't find anything moving about his plight.

"Flaming Andy Hallet's lounge-singing demon Lorne made an instant impact on viewers and he quickly became a fan favorite."

Andy was a riot, and greatly underutilized in season five.

"Justine, his sidekick/protégé (a very difficult role, extremely well-played by Laurel Holloman), is intriguing for the same reason, and her character's arc is both poignant and disturbing."

Justine bored the crap out of me.

"The season then ends on an absolutely wrenching note, with the return of Connor, Angel and Cordelia's missed opportunity, and Lilah's bizarre seduction of Wesley. Also, Holtz and Justine's final scheme is brilliantly staged and played out, leading to a memorable conclusion."

Memorable yes, but not in a good way.

"By comparison, the fourth season was somewhat of a disappointment, although it is the favorite season of many series fans. There was certainly much to enjoy in the season, particularly the tight continuity, wild plot twists, and a concluding moral quandary that was quite articulate and thought-provoking."

Season four sucked ass, and was a huge disappointment. I found very little to enjoy. Continuity, WTF??? This guy obviously wasn't watching the same show I was. The wild plots twists also made no sense.

"Unfortunately, the series creators made the grave miscalculation of attempting to turn Cordelia into the fourth season's big bad by having her body hijacked by an evil entity (who is controlling the aforementioned beast), a plot device that simply did not ring true. This was further complicated by usually-terrific Carpenter's rather flat performance (you could tell her heart just wasnt in to playing evil)."

I blame that more on the writing staff for coming up with such garbage. It also turned out to be their biggest downfall.

"Still, despite my misgivings, "Angel's" fourth season remained gripping entertainment, and concluded with a surprisingly moving finale that finally gave the sniveling Conner a purpose."

Home was one of the worst episodes ever. There was nothing moving about it. It was actually pretty lame. The bulk of the episode was them touring Wolfram and Hart. What's so moving about that?

"Richards' Gunn also received more dramatic mileage than the past two seasons,"

Really? I must have missed that.

"the addition of Mercedes McNab's ultimate ditz Harmony (who had been a recurring character in the "Buffy"-verse form the very beginning) was an inspired idea that paid off enormously."

She was a waste of airtime.

"The best thing about the fifth season, by far, was the addition of everyones favorite bad boy vampire, "Buffy's" very own Spike, brilliantly played by James Marsters."

There was too much Spike. It was like they forgot the name of the show is Angel.

1. "The Trial/Reunion/Redefinition" (2.9, 2.10, & 2.11) - Good episodes, but not Top 10 worthy.

2. "Birthday" (3.11) - It was an awesome episode.

3. "Calvary/Salvage" (4.12 & 4.13) - Actually I thought Orpheus was the best episode of that arc.

4. "Youre Welcome" (5.12) - It's my all time favorite episode.

5. "Billy" (3.6) - It was a great episode.

6. "Over the Rainbow/Through the Lookinglass/Theres No Place Like Pltrz Glrb" (2.20, 2.21, 2.22) - I'll agree on TNPLPG, Over the Rainbow was good, but Through the Looking Glass was a mediocre episode at best.

7. "Loyalty/Sleep Tight/Forgiving" (3.15, 3.16, &3.17) - I hated all three episodes.

8. "Are You Now or Have You Ever Been" (2.2) - It was pretty good.

9. "Reprise/Epiphany" (2.15 & 2.16) - Both episodes were good, especially Epiphany.

10. Hero (1.9) - Had they not killed Doyle off in the last few minutes, I don't think this episode would have had the impact that it did.

JoJo · 05-13-2006, 11:28 PM

I'm with Brown on this article. How anyone could love S4 is beyond me.

Quote:

Most fans never warmed up to Kartheiser's whiney brat Conner.

Ain't that the truth. I thought Dawn was bad, but at least she never killed anyone.

Quote:

Angel's" third season began on a perfect note, with several fantastic stand-alone episodes, and then proceeded to hit a high point with the introduction of Darla's pregnancy.

High point? IMHO, that's when Angel jumped the shark for good. The show started heading downhill from Connor on.

MissWera · 05-14-2006, 02:49 AM

Thanks for the link! A nice article....Oh...I miss Angel!

05-12-2006, 06:45 PM	#1
tojoson Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: st. clair shores, michigan usa Posts: 4,450	interesting article on angel show and cast very good read of Angel shiow and cast link someone who thinks a lot like some of us __________________ don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened

05-12-2006, 10:11 PM	#4
DamnSkippy Join Date: May 2003 Location: Akron, OH Posts: 4,895	I don't agree with his assessment of CC's S4 acting. She did the best she could do with the crap she was given. "Give mama some sugar." Blech. "We're special, Connor." Yeah. Special ed. When the writers aren't sure what they're doing with a character, the director can't be sure and the actor definitely is left floundering. Once she definitely knew she was supposed to be evil, I think she did some fantastic, subtle work. She couldn't play Aus fun evil. She had to walk a fine line of playing Cordy playing good while being Evil!Cordy. Not really an easy thing to do. When she was finally exposed as evil to the gang, I think she really started to shine when the crappy dialogue didn't get in the way. IMO, the suckfest that was Evil!Cordy rests solely on the shoulders of the writers. __________________ Deb ~ Bark/Angel Chipper/Shipper C/A Stillness - Non-Animated Icon Challenge Community devoted to Cordy and Angel David Stillness - Non-animated Icon Challenge Community for David Boreanaz Bones Hush - Textless Icon Challenge Community for the show Bones Nonna Rosina Productions

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
interesting E-Mail	nodakskip	Charisma Carpenter	0	06-16-2007 10:01 PM
Interesting poll	Childe of Blade	The Cordyverse	3	12-26-2006 01:08 AM
Interesting review of S4	JoJo	The Cordyverse	12	03-02-2006 12:16 PM
Angel Season 3 Cast - Exclusive Behind The Scene Scan	CordeliaCC	Charisma Carpenter	0	05-31-2004 08:58 PM

05-12-2006, 07:56 PM	#2
samsmom Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: California Posts: 713	I agree with him for the most part, except that I have a rancid hatred for S5 and don't find anything redeeming about it, except YW, of course. But I always love to read about someone who loves Cordelia. Aren't nearly enough Cordy fans out there, far as I'm concerned.

05-12-2006, 09:49 PM	#3
cherelli Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 156	I really enjoyed that article, the pictures, and the memories. Fortunately my love for this show wont, Fade Away. Thank you, thank you. Cheryl

05-13-2006, 04:19 PM	#7
brownsbros3 Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,145	It was an interesting article. There were some things that I'll agree on, while others I do not. "I personally feel that the series was at its very best during the first three seasons, but the show remained one of the sharpest, most entertaining television series during its entire run." The first three seasons were great. The last two sucked. "The incredible cast really deserves much praise for their always convincing and increasingly complex portrayals." To me there was not a weak link in the entire cast. Now the writing team, that's another story. "The first three seasons also marked the final transformation of Cordelia (Charisma Carpenter) from rich Sunnydale bitch to compassionate heroine, and her character's arc is the most compelling in the series." "Carpenter is easily one of the beautiful and natural actresses on the small screen, and her charismatic presence is one of the driving forces behind the success of the series first three seasons." No argument here. "In fact, the "Loyalty/Sleep Tight/Forgiving" trilogy of episodes is a tour de force for Denisof, who easily should have received an Emmy nomination for his sublime performance." I hated those three episodes. I felt like they were among the worst in the history of the show. "Though lovely Amy Acker has great charm and grace, Fred is easily the most one-note lead character in the series, and there are a few times when her presence in the series feels awkward. Fortunately, Fred continues to grow throughout the season, and will finally come into her own during the fourth and fifth seasons." While I liked Fred, she got more screen time than she really should have. Amy just does not have that lead female presence that Charisma did. "Some viewers grumbled with the third season addition of Vincent Kartheiser as the teenaged Connor, but his plight is genuinely moving and Kartheiser plays the somewhat unlikable character as well as possible." I thought Vinny K did a good job with Connor, but I didn't find anything moving about his plight. "Flaming Andy Hallet's lounge-singing demon Lorne made an instant impact on viewers and he quickly became a fan favorite." Andy was a riot, and greatly underutilized in season five. "Justine, his sidekick/protégé (a very difficult role, extremely well-played by Laurel Holloman), is intriguing for the same reason, and her character's arc is both poignant and disturbing." Justine bored the crap out of me. "The season then ends on an absolutely wrenching note, with the return of Connor, Angel and Cordelia's missed opportunity, and Lilah's bizarre seduction of Wesley. Also, Holtz and Justine's final scheme is brilliantly staged and played out, leading to a memorable conclusion." Memorable yes, but not in a good way. "By comparison, the fourth season was somewhat of a disappointment, although it is the favorite season of many series fans. There was certainly much to enjoy in the season, particularly the tight continuity, wild plot twists, and a concluding moral quandary that was quite articulate and thought-provoking." Season four sucked ass, and was a huge disappointment. I found very little to enjoy. Continuity, WTF??? This guy obviously wasn't watching the same show I was. The wild plots twists also made no sense. "Unfortunately, the series creators made the grave miscalculation of attempting to turn Cordelia into the fourth season's big bad by having her body hijacked by an evil entity (who is controlling the aforementioned beast), a plot device that simply did not ring true. This was further complicated by usually-terrific Carpenter's rather flat performance (you could tell her heart just wasnt in to playing evil)." I blame that more on the writing staff for coming up with such garbage. It also turned out to be their biggest downfall. "Still, despite my misgivings, "Angel's" fourth season remained gripping entertainment, and concluded with a surprisingly moving finale that finally gave the sniveling Conner a purpose." Home was one of the worst episodes ever. There was nothing moving about it. It was actually pretty lame. The bulk of the episode was them touring Wolfram and Hart. What's so moving about that? "Richards' Gunn also received more dramatic mileage than the past two seasons," Really? I must have missed that. "the addition of Mercedes McNab's ultimate ditz Harmony (who had been a recurring character in the "Buffy"-verse form the very beginning) was an inspired idea that paid off enormously." She was a waste of airtime. "The best thing about the fifth season, by far, was the addition of everyones favorite bad boy vampire, "Buffy's" very own Spike, brilliantly played by James Marsters." There was too much Spike. It was like they forgot the name of the show is Angel. 1. "The Trial/Reunion/Redefinition" (2.9, 2.10, & 2.11) - Good episodes, but not Top 10 worthy. 2. "Birthday" (3.11) - It was an awesome episode. 3. "Calvary/Salvage" (4.12 & 4.13) - Actually I thought Orpheus was the best episode of that arc. 4. "Youre Welcome" (5.12) - It's my all time favorite episode. 5. "Billy" (3.6) - It was a great episode. 6. "Over the Rainbow/Through the Lookinglass/Theres No Place Like Pltrz Glrb" (2.20, 2.21, 2.22) - I'll agree on TNPLPG, Over the Rainbow was good, but Through the Looking Glass was a mediocre episode at best. 7. "Loyalty/Sleep Tight/Forgiving" (3.15, 3.16, &3.17) - I hated all three episodes. 8. "Are You Now or Have You Ever Been" (2.2) - It was pretty good. 9. "Reprise/Epiphany" (2.15 & 2.16) - Both episodes were good, especially Epiphany. 10. Hero (1.9) - Had they not killed Doyle off in the last few minutes, I don't think this episode would have had the impact that it did.

05-14-2006, 02:49 AM	#9
MissWera Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 144	Thanks for the link! A nice article....Oh...I miss Angel!