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Old 06-14-2010, 03:38 PM   #46
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SUMMARY

Kate, (guest star Elisabeth Rohm) hardened by years of police work, enrolls in sensitivity training with her fellow police officers. At first the training appears to be innocuous, but Angel (David Boreanaz) and others begin to notice her excessive emotions.It becomes especially obvious when she pours her heart out at her father's retirement party. Then, the entire police station goes awry. Angel and Doyle (Glenn Quinn) figure out that Kate is in danger because of a recent arrest, and make the connection that the sensitivity teacher is responsible. But after a brief encounter with the teacher, it's Angel who's the new nice guy on the block. At first, Cordelia and Doyle can't deal with the pleasantries,but Angel soon manages to pull himself together and seals the fates ofthe evil hitmen!

-From Buffyworld

Food for thought:

What was your favorite scene?
What was your least favorite scene?
What was your favorite line?
What line made you roll your eyes?
What would you change if you could?
C/A factor?
Anything that just sticks in your craw?
Any fics that take place during this episode you'd like to rec?
__________________
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"I only want to have sex with the C part of C/A. Not interested in the A." -Me to Nikkiwawa
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Old 06-15-2010, 01:44 PM   #47
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Not too much to say about this episode. Not many memorable lines except 'rainbow-painbow'.

Cordy looks great, I notice that they are putting her in a LOT of tight sweaters so far this season--(that's okay by me though).

Angel's shirt on the docks, Why would he be carrying something like THAT around.

Poor Angel, trying to thank Cordy for her work on the autopsy files--"Lame".

I don't mind Kate as much as most people here, I just never thought of her as Buffy 2, and besides, I'm a guy, and she's pretty good looking, but I liked her better as a bad-ass and I liked her best when she was pissed at Angel, even though he didn't deserved it.

I'm glad they got rid of Lee Mercer, He wouldn't have worked out. Just by looking at him, you could tell he's evil. Lilah and Lindsay were more effective, you didn't expect evil to come out of anyone so pretty.

That's it, nothing special, nothing too bad, (for me, anyway). just a normal episode
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Old 06-15-2010, 04:34 PM   #48
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So far, the two human evil episodes have been solid but slow. I mean, there is nothing bad about them but there is nothing remarkable either. They are just there. Now they work better than a lot of filler episodes, it's just that again, it paces slow. I'd rather watch SAS or IFTP instead of some of the other filler-y types.

I love when Cordelia and Doyle are in the sewers, cutting up the monster and she is having her little speech while Doyle is getting flung around. Too funny. And even in her attempts to get Angel to open up, she doesn't want a full touchy feely Angel. Nobody does.

C/A-ness: Well, it's clear that Cordelia's humanizing influence is helping Angel to open up and start to care about people. I can only imagine if she wasn't there. And then there is the whole Cordy is precious thing. Love it. (And for my own subtexty fanish opinion, Angel was stuttering when asked about her shoes cause he wanted to suck her toes! )

Weirdness: Why does Joss hate fathers so damn much? Cordelia gets a call, it's her mom. Kate's father is emotionally stunted. Liam's father, in Liam's eyes, was a dick. Buffy's father is MIA. Xander's father is abusive. William doesn't have a father. Wes' father is a dick. I mean cheese and rice!

Incosistencies: Maybe? Sooooo...Angel just has a box of disguises in the back of his car that includes a too small hat and a loud shirt? And he knows how to use night vision on the camcorder. Where did that camcorder go? I can't believe he wouldn't have taken millions of hours of video of Connor, you know?

Fashion choices: Grey button up at the end of the episode and of course, the Herb Saunders shirt. Someone had to buy that shirt for him.
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"I only want to have sex with the C part of C/A. Not interested in the A." -Me to Nikkiwawa
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Old 06-16-2010, 12:45 PM   #49
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SUMMARY

Just as Doyle is inches away from finally making a connection with Cordy, his estranged wife shows up at Angel Investigations begging for a divorce so she can marry the new love of her life. After the initial shock of it all, Doyle agrees to consent tothe divorce. Meanwhile, Angel discovers that the fiance comes froma long line of pacifist demons, but this doesn't seem to rock anyone's boat. After Doyle consents to the divorce, the fiance invites Doyle to join his bachelor party. Unbeknownst to Doyle, the fiance's family has a ritual to fulfill: the fiance needs toeat Doyle's brain in order to have a successful marriage. As the party proceedings begin, Angel gets suspicious and wanders upstairs. There he discovers these demons may not be as pacifist as they seem. He is ejected from the restaurant by the family. Downstairs, Doyle is about to be eaten with a shrimp-fork, but Angel and Cordy and the fiance arrive on the scene and come to the rescue.

-From Buffyworld

Food for thought:

What was your favorite scene?
What was your least favorite scene?
What was your favorite line?
What line made you roll your eyes?
What would you change if you could?
C/A factor?
Anything that just sticks in your craw?
Any fics that take place during this episode you'd like to rec?
__________________
"No regrets. That is what I say. That and everybody Wang Chung tonight" -Out Cold
"I only want to have sex with the C part of C/A. Not interested in the A." -Me to Nikkiwawa
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Old 06-16-2010, 04:48 PM   #50
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I like when Doyle and Harry are talking with Cordy in the background, without saying a word, you can just tell that she is thinking, "Oh great, I just start to warm up to a guy, and I find out he's married.

When Doyle says he owns the detective agency, Cordy makes her 'I just can't believe you just said that' face. It's just a flash, It's better in 'Disharmony' when they're talking about Harmony in front of the theater, and she really had it perfected by the time she used it in 'You're Welcome'. when Angel says he can't torture Eve. I love that expression almost as much as the face she makes at 'Pffft".

"Just don't tell Cordelia, She'll want to charge you." Hee

Other than to have an excuse for Angel to attack him, what was Richard's motivation for turning into a demon, just to cut the box strings?

Cordy slamming demon Doyle with a serving tray.

"I think it, I say it. It's my way." The basis of Cordelia.
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Old 06-18-2010, 11:10 AM   #51
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Something to watch out for when you rewatch "IWRY".

Angel becomes human, and comes into the office and attacks the fridge, loving the taste of the food. After he remarks about the Yogurt, (notice the spots on the bridge of his nose, and his lip), Doyle says, "Orsen! We're in a situation here."

ORSEN???

I don't have any idea what this was about, whether it was just a simple goof, or an inside joke, but watch CC's face. Her eye brows go up, her eyes get wide, she looks over at Doyle, and then gets a wry smile on her face. Looks like she was about to bust out laughing.

Cute scene
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Old 06-18-2010, 12:03 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tojoson View Post
Something to watch out for when you rewatch "IWRY".

Angel becomes human, and comes into the office and attacks the fridge, loving the taste of the food. After he remarks about the Yogurt, (notice the spots on the bridge of his nose, and his lip), Doyle says, "Orsen! We're in a situation here."

ORSEN???
TV.com gives 3 possible explanations for this quote.

http://www.tv.com/angel/i-will-remem...81/trivia.html

Doyle: Orson, we're in a situation here.

There are at least three possible explanations for this.

1. Angel was gorging himself on food at the time so, Orson may refer to Orson Welles. Orson Welles was a famous actor/director who in his latter years was known for his girth and huge appetite.

2. Orson may refer to a character on Garfield and Friends. Orson was a pig and the one every one turned to when something went wrong. Doyle may know this because he taught grade three and might know some of the tv shows his students watched.

3. He's referring to Orson from the tv show Mork and Mindy. Orson was Mork's superior and Angel is Doyle's superior.


I personally believe it's #3, the Mork & Mindy one since Mork would contact Orson with problems and that's sounds like something he might say in doing so.
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Old 06-18-2010, 12:52 PM   #53
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I would actually go for the first one since Orson Welles actually started his acting career in Ireland and was quite fond of the Irish. He was always taking the piss out of them. And it might actually be a cultural reference that Angel would get.

Personally though, I thought it was just a slang term. I knew it was cockney slang but I just assumed that it had migrated to Ireland and was more like a buddy term of affection. But I can't seem to find anything to back that up online aside from it being cockney slang for fart. LOL I doubt he was calling Angel that.
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Old 06-18-2010, 12:56 PM   #54
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This is my kind of late discussion for The Bachelor Party. I kind of love this episode because we get so much backstory on Doyle. It is definitely a "all these people are working towards redemption" pin. I also kind of love Harry. I wish we had seen more of her. Or at least some kind of phone call with someone letting her know that Doyle was dead. Then again, how many times did we see characters grieve for others on either show? Not a whole hell of a lot, that is for sure.

Funniest part for me is the whole exchange after Richie gets the Maine Lobster bib put on him right to the end of the Bachelor Party. The part about the shrimp fork KILLS me. Kills! I don't know why but just the delivery of that line cracks me up. And Cordelia hitting Doyle over the head with the platter, totally awesome.

C/Aness: Not much to speak of. This was a Doyle-centric episode.

Weirdness: Again, nothing here.

Inconsistencies: The only thing I could think of really is the timing of Harry and Doyle's relationship. Doyle talks about how young they were but Harry said he had his teaching cert before they even met. Only thing I can think is that he got certified and didn't go to college?

Fashion Choices: Angel has that wine colored button up AGAIN at the end of the episode. He really is fond of that thing.
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"No regrets. That is what I say. That and everybody Wang Chung tonight" -Out Cold
"I only want to have sex with the C part of C/A. Not interested in the A." -Me to Nikkiwawa
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Old 06-18-2010, 01:00 PM   #55
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SUMMARY

When Angel tells Cordy and Doyle that he did not contact Buffy during his visit to Sunnydale, Buffy pays a visit and expresses her displeasure. Sparks fly. As they are about to part their separate ways, a medieval demon charges into Angel's office and a violent brawl ensues. The demon escapes, and Buffy and Angel decideto pursue it separately. When Angel makes contact and kills him,he observes that he has human characteristics. The Powers thatBe confirm that Angel is indeed human again. Angel pursues Buffy and they share a passionate night of romance. But the next day, they are confronted by a stronger version of the medieval demon, and Angel is unable to fight in his human form. After hearingthat Buffy would perish if he were to remain human, he begs the Powers That Be to transform him into a vampire so that he can protect her. They do so, and Angel breaks the news to a heartbroken Buffy. However, their blessed reunion will remainonly in Angel's memory...

-From Buffyworld

Food for thought:

What was your favorite scene?
What was your least favorite scene?
What was your favorite line?
What line made you roll your eyes?
What would you change if you could?
C/A factor?
Anything that just sticks in your craw?
Any fics that take place during this episode you'd like to rec?
__________________
"No regrets. That is what I say. That and everybody Wang Chung tonight" -Out Cold
"I only want to have sex with the C part of C/A. Not interested in the A." -Me to Nikkiwawa
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Old 06-18-2010, 01:15 PM   #56
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I had debated not doing this one in the rewatch tbh because it's so...well, honestly I think the only good part is that we get a glimpse about the Shanshu and we meet The Oracles. I always loved The Oracles. The female cracked me up. But this whole episode is fanservice and not very well-written fanservice at that. So many of the points never get resolved or addressed again but I think that is par for the course with ATS and BTVS at times.

This episode does illustrate my fundamental problem with Buffy and Angel though. If you want to change the basic core of who and what someone is (vampire) than maybe you don't really love them. Love is warts and all, not trying to change someone into what your idea of love is. Which is what I think is what Buffy and Angel really is. It's not about realistic love, it's about an ideal. Of course, Buffy seems even more self-righteous than usual during her little speeches (in the office and in the sewer) which I think is what really irritates me. Because I like Buffy in the later seasons, I just don't like the "the whole world revolves around me cause I'm The Slayer" attitude of the early seasons.

I also have a BIG problem with the way a section of fandom treats this episode. It is made very clear by the female Oracle as well as said by Angel THREE times that the day NEVER happened. Buffy can't wind up pregnant, she isn't going to remember a day that never happened unless The Oracles or The Powers intervene. And let's face it, The Powers had nothing to do with Buffy. She wasn't one of their warriors. What advantage would she have to remember except to be even more pissed at Angel for deciding to swallow the day?

But moving on, another thing that just makes me so mad is that Angel was about to walk away from the mission, from HIS redemption. He seems to flit off and leave the mission (and the people that care about him) every single season. Oh Buffy's here, I'm human, gonna go back to Sunnydale. Oh, Darla's here, you're all fired. Oh, Buffy's dead, lemme go to Tibet for three months and leave you all to fight on your own. Oh, Wolfram and Hart offers me a deal, I'll go to the dark side even though I know that I could be a warrior for evil at some point. Angel's an idiot and honestly, sometimes I don't think he deserves to Shanshu or to earn his redemption if he wants to walk away so easily.

C/Aness: Nada. No surprise there.

Weirdness: Clearly, Buffy and Angel were the ones eating peanut butter in the bed, not Cordelia, which makes me think that they did air these out of order and that Rm w/a Vu was supposed to come after IWRY. One time I might watch in that order and see. We don't see Cordy's new apartment in any of the episodes between RM and IWRY. It's also is stupid because again, it is said over and over that the day NEVER HAPPENED. The writers can't even keep their own canon straight but does that surprise us?

And if Cordelia went to Santa Monica to get Buffy while Angel and Doyle went to The Oracles, how did Angel beat Cordelia there to kiss Buffy? Wouldn't Buffy be on her way back or on her way to her dad's? Maybe we are supposed to think she was milling around, pondering the universe?

Inconsistencies: First off, Buffy died anyway. Even if that wasn't the coming darkness. Coming darkness could be relative. It could be one year or it could be ten or twenty. The thing is, would Buffy really survive another decade? Another twenty? She wouldn't be in any shape to fight when she was pressing 50. And at the end of the series, let's face it, they weren't on speaking terms. She wasn't exactly happy he was heading up Evil Inc over here. I doubt she'd be ready to fight alongside him when this darkness came when she thinks he switched teams. And with an army of Slayers, is having a vampire with a soul on your side really that big of a deal? That would result in a shift of the balance? Doubtful.

Fashion choices: Mostly all black, except for the brief interlude with the grey sweater.
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"I only want to have sex with the C part of C/A. Not interested in the A." -Me to Nikkiwawa
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Old 06-19-2010, 12:13 AM   #57
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If the day never happened, then this episode never happened and we can't review an episode that never was, right?

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Old 06-19-2010, 03:04 PM   #58
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If the day never happened, then this episode never happened and we can't review an episode that never was, right?

God, if only. If only.
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Old 06-19-2010, 03:10 PM   #59
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SUMMARY

Kate, (guest star Elisabeth Rohm) hardened by years of police work, enrolls in sensitivity training with her fellow police officers. At first the training appears to be innocuous, but Angel (David Boreanaz) and others begin to notice her excessive emotions.It becomes especially obvious when she pours her heart out at her father's retirement party. Then, the entire police station goes awry. Angel and Doyle (Glenn Quinn) figure out that Kate is in danger because of a recent arrest, and make the connection that the sensitivity teacher is responsible. But after a brief encounter with the teacher, it's Angel who's the new nice guy on the block. At first, Cordelia and Doyle can't deal with the pleasantries,but Angel soon manages to pull himself together and seals the fates ofthe evil hitmen!

-From Buffyworld




SUMMARY

Just as Doyle is inches away from finally making a connection with Cordy, his estranged wife shows up at Angel Investigations begging for a divorce so she can marry the new love of her life. After the initial shock of it all, Doyle agrees to consent tothe divorce. Meanwhile, Angel discovers that the fiance comes froma long line of pacifist demons, but this doesn't seem to rock anyone's boat. After Doyle consents to the divorce, the fiance invites Doyle to join his bachelor party. Unbeknownst to Doyle, the fiance's family has a ritual to fulfill: the fiance needs toeat Doyle's brain in order to have a successful marriage. As the party proceedings begin, Angel gets suspicious and wanders upstairs. There he discovers these demons may not be as pacifist as they seem. He is ejected from the restaurant by the family. Downstairs, Doyle is about to be eaten with a shrimp-fork, but Angel and Cordy and the fiance arrive on the scene and come to the rescue.

-From Buffyworld





SUMMARY

When Angel tells Cordy and Doyle that he did not contact Buffy during his visit to Sunnydale, Buffy pays a visit and expresses her displeasure. Sparks fly. As they are about to part their separate ways, a medieval demon charges into Angel's office and a violent brawl ensues. The demon escapes, and Buffy and Angel decideto pursue it separately. When Angel makes contact and kills him,he observes that he has human characteristics. The Powers thatBe confirm that Angel is indeed human again. Angel pursues Buffy and they share a passionate night of romance. But the next day, they are confronted by a stronger version of the medieval demon, and Angel is unable to fight in his human form. After hearingthat Buffy would perish if he were to remain human, he begs the Powers That Be to transform him into a vampire so that he can protect her. They do so, and Angel breaks the news to a heartbroken Buffy. However, their blessed reunion will remainonly in Angel's memory...

-From Buffyworld
__________________
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Old 06-20-2010, 02:21 PM   #60
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I'm so far behind I'm not going to try to catch up in detail. I will make a few comments on the eps.

In The Dark - Nothing insightful here, but I enjoyed the C/A-ness of Cordy's real concern for Angel. And although I loved Spike's monologue at the beginning, I still wish they had foregone all crossovers. In hindsight, I think it would have been far better for AtS to have been a separate entity like most spin-offs get to be. All the crossovers weakened it, IMO.

I Fall to Pieces - In general this ep gives me the creeps. Hated the bad guy and the creepy person parts. I will say I liked the DiD. She wasn't blonde and she had some backbone. AND, she didn't swoon over Angel which is a big plus. Cordy had memorable lines like "Well, as vampires go, you’re pretty cuddly" (which ended the series in the thank you montage so go Cordy!) and "You are a lot smarter than you look. Of course you look like a retard." And pretty impressed that Angel listened to her fashion advice.

Rm w/a Vu - LOVE this one. Cordy's "antler" moment is hysterical. Angel dripping wet and in his boxers later - what's not to love? I watched this one with Jane Espensen's commentary and loved what she said about how strong Cordy is and her directness. She also said that if anyone would say something to her about how she is so self-absorbed and cares for herself first and foremost, she would respond by saying, "Well, yeah, who else is going to do it?" She's all about taking care of herself and making no apologies for it.

And, of course, we get introduced to Phantom Dennis who is one of my all-time favorite non-existing characters. It sucks that he is basically forgotten later and we never know what happened to him.

Also, Espensen confirmed that Kate was originally intended as a love interest for Angel but that they found them being on opposite sides more interesting. I figured she was supposed to be (considering some of the storylines), but I didn't remember anyone from the show confirming that.

Sense and Sensitivity - I like this episode but it's not a big favorite. Gotta love the scene in the sewer with Cordy going on and on about Angel's insensitivity while Doyle is getting eaten in the background. And the next scene in the office with Cordy being pissy and Angel giving it right back. The mind meld line is one of my favorites. Plus, we find out Cordy's mom calls so we know she still keeps in touch with her. Still don't know if she's calling from jail or not, but I assume not.

Angel in the Hawaiian shirt and hat is another priceless moment. And I thought Kate did a great job with the intoxicated, sensitive moments. I liked her commenting on Doyle's interest in Cordy and Cordy's reaction.

The group hug at the police station is so adorable. Cordy's little "eww" and hand motion trying not to touch Angel just shows how far she will evolve later.

There are a lot of things I like about this episode, but the B plot with Mafia types was pretty lackluster and boring.

Bachelor Party - This one I like probably because we actually get backstory on Doyle which turns out to be pretty shocking. He was married, a teacher and volunteered in a soup kitchen? Okay - obviously there was a big fall from grace there. Cordy finds out not all demons are evil and the party at the future in-laws was fun (pornographic Pictionary - yay!). Angel wasn't all broody in this ep - showing his lighter side trying to help Doyle out and being there for Doyle in dealing with his history with Harry.

Plus, we get the classic Angel door-kicking moment! Love it!

Doyle being rolled around in the mini-steam bath and then getting beaten up by Cordy. LMAO!

But most importantly, they introduced Harriet who I liked a lot and wish they had brought back. I do like fic that includes Harry as part of the team. It's rare, but nice.

The end scene with Cordy and Angel discussing Doyle and how they can help him is intimate and warm but ultimately funny. And Cordy's attempt to help Doyle is sincere and lovely. "I think it, I say it. It's my way." Angel's look at Cordy after she helps Doyle is like a light bulb going off. He sees her differently, I think, and he likes what he sees.

Of course, it ends badly with the oh-so-predictable Buffy vision and the set up for the next unfortunate cross-over episode. *yawn*

Skipping IWRY because vastly overrated melodrama is boring. And, once again, the BtVS character takes over the show and Cordy gets booted off to make room.
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