07-13-2005, 10:19 PM | #211 | |
The Pointy End
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The Cordyverse
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Quote:
But I still think the general point I made is valid - even though the Enemies mucked it up with Not!Cordy!
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07-14-2005, 07:43 AM | #212 | |
It's all about Cordy.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: From the end of the world to your town
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07-19-2005, 10:58 AM | #213 |
holding onto hope
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,817
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Darla/Angel-JB/DB had the best chemistry on both shows. Their scenes together simply sizzled, whether she was pregnant or trying to drive him insane.
Drusilla/Angel- I found the relationship to be incredibly creepy and disgusting, on the level of a man/vampire taking advantage of a woman, but there was chemistry between them, atleast until that scene in Season 5... Lindsey/Darla- lotsa sparks. I always hoped those two would get together and try to wrangle in Angelus, preferably with Darla pulling the strings. Faith/Connor- I admit, I thought I saw something there. It doesn't help that I also love VK as an actor. Cordy/Angel- yes, but I didn't think so in scenes from WitW and some of those dream sequences from the season premiere of Season 4. It came off as awkward and forced to me, the kisses were also a bit off, but I love their banter and their scenes together in YW and Birthday. Those definitely sparked. Buffy/Angel- yea, they had chemistry, but it fell out for me in season 3 when the ship was beaten over the head with a stick. Willow/Tara- not so much, but I definitely felt it in the Musical Special and the early episodes together, when Willow first started to realize her feelings. The scene where she blew out the candle between them was the best. Drusilla/Spike- of course! Might as well ask me if I have to breathe in order to live.
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"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the road less traveled by and they CANCELLED MY FRIKKIN' SHOW. I totally shoulda took the road that had all those people on it. Damn." --Joss Whedon He left us a legacy. To give others less fortunate than we are a chance to turn our lives around. Now I want him to have that chance.-Legacy, gone but not forgotten Connor Fan #129 Darla Fan #025 Van/Hitomi/Allen Fan DS9 Fan Frillie Fan Kagome/Inuyasha Fan Sesshoumaru/Kagura Fan |
07-24-2005, 04:54 AM | #214 |
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 10
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faith/buffy- my personal fave. faith was much more of a legit lezzie than willow to me. these two were electric from the first time they met
angel/buffy-not the chemistry of 2 ppl who are really close-but they did have a certain visual look that had a visceral vibe cordy/angel- no electric sexual tension here, except that particular sexual tension that can be created by a really close friendship. probably the most intriguing and confusing sorta chemistry there is, which is why i thought they were interesting willow/anyone- she was so unsexual to me. i honestly never felt a strong vibe with her or anyone. although, i think she had the hots for buffy and faith but it was totally unconcsious and repressed. and interestingly, they never really addressed this later when she 'realized' she was gay, except subtextually with kennedy. for me, that was willow finally playing out her repressed attraction to faith darla/angel: no one else simultaneously brought out the badass and the pussy in angel like darla could spike/drusilla v. spike/buffy: they both work, i just think it's weird how drusilla makes spike feel like this giant gothic creature, whereas buffy makes him come off as some 20th century metro. anywayyy lindsay/angel, doyle/angel: i get more homoerotic vibes from these two pairs than spike/angel. i think part of it is the close friendship db had with these 2 actors. it brings out a certain playfulnes in db that comes off sorta sexually. the spike/angel chemistry is less playful and more rooted in simple power dynamics.
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08-12-2005, 11:24 PM | #215 | |
Rich girl, superhero
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: In your head
Posts: 12,290
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Screw chemistry -- look for the couple with physics:
Quote:
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08-13-2005, 04:33 PM | #216 |
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,132
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Platy -- I agree with some of your things regarding the Enemies unwillingness to take stands and some of the dynamic in the writer's room.
I would say however the big problem was the loss of Greenwalt, and Joss feeling he could never make mistakes or be wrong in his creative directions. THAT seemed to be the big driver of so much bad writing. He didn't listen. Not to Fury, Jane when she was right (about the rape), the cast, or the ratings. Spike/Buffy? It was going to be no matter how skillfully executed damaging to the show (and Buffy) because it's both a repeat of the Buffy/Angel relationship with variations, and because Spike could not be put into Jekyll-Hyde type characters. ME went ahead anyway because Joss, aided by Marti and Jane (who'd fallen in love with the character and Marsters as an actor) decided Spike was the hero and the character he'd push. Over Buffy herself and Sarah. This was designed as much as anything else I think by Joss to "Sarah-proof" Buffy by pushing his fave. Of course this made Buffy as a character look bad, Spike's character being who he was, and the audience bailed, massive tension on the set as folks saw their characters being destroyed to push James/Spike, and rotating show-runners. In S7 only MT gave every scene her all, followed by Nick who did that for most of his. Aly, Sarah, Tony, all pretty much sleepwalked. ASH's exit at the beginning of S6 was a bad omen, just as Marc's was on the beginning of S5. Buffy became far less fun, with characters operating on their own, almost no friendship and instead non-stop romantic angst as what ME considered chemistry. I agree with Marc being pretty decent; not every actor has to "emote" (*ahem*) and he did his supporting job well. I don't think Marti and Jane can shoulder the responsibility there, everything I've seen from Joss has focused on Spike as the character he was most entranced with, and liked the best. Which IMHO is stupid, show is not called "Spike" and if the character was that great and compelling he deserved his own show ... oh wait Angel S5. I don't think Spike is that popular, outside a hard core fan base, the Internet just acts as a megaphone. If Spike had been that popular when he was pushed the last three years of the Enemies ratings would have shot up. Though I'll contradict myself here and say you also may be right about the remaining fans being Spike-fanatics. But that's ... subtraction by subtraction. Obviously nothing pencilled out there for even Angel to go on. I think you are right that Fury briefly tried to turn things around by making Buffy more likeable; but Marti and Jane wanted to make Passions and basically did, with Joss's approval from on high. Or if you like the Sports analogy, Joss was Jerry Buss and decided to make Spike his own Kobe Bryant. This is a pity since the best chemistry IMHO was the friendships on the shows, early Buffy-Willow, Buffy-Xander, Willow-Xander; Buffy with Giles; Cordy with Angel on his show; Doyle-Angel; early Angel-Wes; Wes-Cordy-Gunn; Xander and Dawn late in the run; Xander and Riley. |
08-13-2005, 08:25 PM | #217 | |
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 71
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Quote:
Platypus, I just wanted to mention that your previous post was great. It explains so much (I'm not as in the know about what went on behind the scenes as many of you are, so I'm just going by what I've read here and elsewhere). The lack of commitment to any given storyline certainly explains the portrayal of C/A and B/S and continued attempts to keep B/A on artificial life support. As a writer, one of the first things I learned is never to start *any* story without knowing where you're going, or how it's going to end. It was painfully obvious in the later seasons of Buffy and Angel that the writers didn't bother with that rule. Whether it was b/c they were attempting to cater to all the factions of their audience or simply b/c they were too lazy/busy/complacent/whatever to cook up a decent storyline, the whole show went to hell in a handbasket. I know that there was probably pressure from the network, different writers' different takes on the ships/characters, etc. to work with, but S6-7 needed someone to toe the line and commit to one storyline. I kept watching despite all the problems b/c I had already invested in the show and it was *still* better than everything else on TV (and believe me, that's not saying much). But the fact that nothing came to a real resolution continues to bother me till this day, and the fact that the later seasons had a fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants feel to it. I once said that S7 felt like, well, let's say when I have been writing a novel for ages, then get sick of it and just wanna finish the damn thing already. As a result, I usually end up doing a half-assed job to get it out of the way so I can work on cooler, funner new ideas. But Joss, unlike me, did not have the luxury of being completely in charge and having a set plan that he just had to write out. I can only imagine how hellacious it would be to finish a novel without already knowing where I was going with it. And that's a waaaaayyyy smaller scale than I imagine a TV show must be. So I guess what I'm trying to say is, I think the show as a whole would've been better off just committing to a single 'ship and/or storyline, knowing where it was going to go, and following through, even at the risk of upsetting certain factions of fans. I know i'm not as bitter as some other fans b/c I'm a Spuffy shipper and more or less got what i wanted, even if it wasn't the way I wanted it, but I can honestly say that even if I didn't get my ship, and they decided to go with something else, as long as it was a solid and well-written storyline, I would've gotten over it. Eventually I probably would've acknowledged that it did make the most sense for the story, even if it wasn't what I wanted. So by trying to keep everything ambiguous to leave the door open for whatever idea streaks into their minds, or to attempt to please all the different shippers, they'd have probably ironically kept more viewers by just picking a storyline and going with it. |
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