Grey's Anatomy [Archive] - Stranger Things Forum

Angela

12-06-2005, 10:06 PM

Yeah, Cochrane was written out at his own request, apparently wanting to concentrate on doing movies.

How long ago was all this? I don't recall seeing his name on many marquees lately. Took Caruso a loooong time to live down his leaving NYPD Blue.

So, um, Grey's Anatomy... I'm actually liking Heigl in this role. This Isabel is a lot easier to deal with than her other Isabel. Interesting what Shepard did to her in the last episode.

I loooove Izzie (although the name Izzie drives me up the wall). Then again, I've been a KH fan for years, so I was predisposed to be favorable.

And you saw that as interesting? I saw it as unnecessary and cruel. I think there are other ways to teach an intern not to get too attached, especially when this lesson meant giving the parents false hope and denying them the right to spend extra with a baby who wasn't going to make it.

(Mind you, I actually like Addison a lot. This is the first misstep I feel the character's made, aside from sleeping with her husband's best friend, of course.)

George is also way cool. He's the type of character (not unlike Neela on ER) you just have to want to succeed. Not sure if I want him to succeed in getting Meredith though. He deserves better.

Agreed, and agreed.

But all the characters fade into insignificance next to Bailey. Bailey rules the world.

And agreed a hundredfold! Her pulling the "Nazi made me do it" shtick on that snotty doctor was priceless! And the actress is a Texas gal, which is a plus in my book. :)

SamIAm

12-07-2005, 09:10 AM

How long ago was all this? I don't recall seeing his name on many marquees lately. Took Caruso a loooong time to live down his leaving NYPD Blue.

AFAIR, Cochrane's character was killed off in the season two opener. Or maybe season three; whichever was the year before this current season. (Mostly CSI: Miami goes in one eye and out the other.) I don't know if he had a specific project to rush off too or if he just wanted his freedom to pursue movie roles in general. But at least Cochrane didn't piss all over the series when he left the way Caruso did Blue.

On the personal belief with minimal evidence front, I think Cochrane really just got tired of his role, which could be best summed up as 'sighs, acts put upon, and takes pictures'. Meanwhile, Caruso, who doesn't so much act as recite lines while shifting to a different pose, gets all the attention.

I loooove Izzie (although the name Izzie drives me up the wall).

Isabel is just one of those names for which there is no good nickname.

Then again, I've been a KH fan for years, so I was predisposed to be favorable.

I have no problem with Heigl, but Roswell Isabel was, to me, like fingernails on a chalkboard.

And you saw that as interesting? I saw it as unnecessary and cruel.

Well, interesting doesn't mean it wasn't unnecessary and cruel. I admit I would have preferred to see other attempts made to demonstrate the dangers of overinvolvement to Isabel, but I wouldn't have been surprised to see it have to come to what it came to. The interesting part was apparently Webber did the same thing to Addison, and even though she wasn't a fan of the experience either, she went ahead and did it to Isabel.

That said, nursing runs in my family; lots of aunts and cousins are in the profession, and the one thing they all agree on is how easy it is to get too involved, and how soon it'll kill you if you make it a habit. Maybe shock therapy is the only way to go.

(Mind you, I actually like Addison a lot.

"Me, too." Like George, she deserves better than who she's pursuing.

savvy sinatra

12-07-2005, 04:29 PM

Like George, she deserves better than who she's pursuing.
Derrik and Meredith are made for each other. They should elope and move out of state, and then the show could be called "Bailey's Anatomy" because Bailey is the glue that holds that hospital and its staff together.
I'm just sayin'.
*jumps on the Prestina ship* I really hope these two last. Although, since it is a TV show, I'm sure they'll have one or two horrible breakups, maybe date around, break some other hearts, but hopefully in the end, they'll make it.

Angela

12-07-2005, 07:24 PM

AFAIR, Cochrane's character was killed off in the season two opener. Or maybe season three; whichever was the year before this current season. (Mostly CSI: Miami goes in one eye and out the other.) I don't know if he had a specific project to rush off too or if he just wanted his freedom to pursue movie roles in general. But at least Cochrane didn't piss all over the series when he left the way Caruso did Blue.

I'm glad to hear Cochrane at least had the sense not to go the "I'm better than just tv" route, although I will admit I'm disappointed that I won't see more of him. I wish I'd turned on to this show sooner. It doesn't seem to be in syndication yet, which I'm assuming means it hasn't hit the 100 mark to date.

On the personal belief with minimal evidence front, I think Cochrane really just got tired of his role, which could be best summed up as 'sighs, acts put upon, and takes pictures'.

And that would be the role currently being played by Adam Rodriguez, no?

Meanwhile, Caruso, who doesn't so much act as recite lines while shifting to a different pose, gets all the attention.

He also stares meaningfully into the distance (we're assuming) through the sunglasses. And he does seem to occasionally chew a little scenery. Maybe craft services needs to up the fiber content?

Isabel is just one of those names for which there is no good nickname.

Belle or Bella isn't bad. Heck, just plain "Is" is better than Izzie.

I have no problem with Heigl, but Roswell Isabel was, to me, like fingernails on a chalkboard.

IMO, she didn't get much to work with in the first season, and in the second there was way too much with the angst. In the third season, she came into her own. As did the show (again, IMO). Unlike the Max/Liz teen contingent, I much preferred the show when it wasn't all about the Great-and-Deep-and-All-Consuming-Romeo-and-Juliet-star-crossed LOVE.

Well, interesting doesn't mean it wasn't unnecessary and cruel. I admit I would have preferred to see other attempts made to demonstrate the dangers of overinvolvement to Isabel, but I wouldn't have been surprised to see it have to come to what it came to.

And it might have, but there should have been SOME attempt before that particular "lesson". Opening up with the death of a baby seems a bit extreme, even for tv medicine.

The interesting part was apparently Webber did the same thing to Addison, and even though she wasn't a fan of the experience either, she went ahead and did it to Isabel.

Maybe she identifies strongly with Isabel, sees Isabel as a younger version of herself? That could explain why she did it--it was done to her younger self.

That said, nursing runs in my family; lots of aunts and cousins are in the profession, and the one thing they all agree on is how easy it is to get too involved, and how soon it'll kill you if you make it a habit. Maybe shock therapy is the only way to go.

The same is true to a much lesser extent in education. You can't fix every kid, and the teachers who learn that are the ones who don't burn out in 3-5 years. But I still think that particular level of shock therapy wasn't called until at least the second or third round. Again, if for no other reason than that Addison denied the parents the right to spend that last night with their dying child.

"Me, too." Like George, she deserves better than who she's pursuing.

I don't have the same kind of antipathy for McDreamy that I do for Meredith, but I do hate to see Addison continuing so doggedly in the face of continued disinterest/dislike. She certainly deserves better than what she's getting from who she's pursuing.

And just for the record, it's not that I don't like Meredith at all. I was a WHOLE lot more sympathetic to her in season one, though. Her behavior since finding out McDreamy was married has left much to be desired.

Derrik and Meredith are made for each other. They should elope and move out of state, and then the show could be called "Bailey's Anatomy" because Bailey is the glue that holds that hospital and its staff together.
I'm just sayin'.

That is not an entirely undesirable scenario, actually. Get Derek and Meredith offscreen for a bit and let the rest of the characters have some daylight. I like it!

*jumps on the Prestina ship* I really hope these two last. Although, since it is a TV show, I'm sure they'll have one or two horrible breakups, maybe date around, break some other hearts, but hopefully in the end, they'll make it.

I like Burke a lot, but I wish Christina wasn't such a priss. She's bound to break his heart one of these days.

SamIAm

12-08-2005, 10:46 AM

It doesn't seem to be in syndication yet, which I'm assuming means it hasn't hit the 100 mark to date.

Hmm... I thought one of the cable channels had picked it up. I know Spike grabbed the original CSI. That doesn't help you though.

And that would be the role currently being played by Adam Rodriguez, no?

Jonathan Togo took Cochrane's place. Rodriguez has been on the series from day one. They don't really have a put-upon sighing photographer any more.

And it might have, but there should have been SOME attempt before that particular "lesson". Opening up with the death of a baby seems a bit extreme, even for tv medicine.

Well, the baby was going to die regardless, I suppose. It just seemed like they were pulling out a shotgun to kill a fly at that point.

Again, if for no other reason than that Addison denied the parents the right to spend that last night with their dying child.

Ah. Well, see, I thought they were very careful to cover this, between the flu-ridden triplets, the 74 year-old mother, and Dorie's previous experience watching Meredith's quint coupled with her rapid descent into post-partum depression. I didn't really have a problem with the idea that they'd said no to an all-night vigil when Addison told them the child's true condition.

Maybe she identifies strongly with Isabel, sees Isabel as a younger version of herself?

Well, Addison did say that Isabel was the best doctor she'd seen in a long time. I'm not sure what she was basing that on though; they'd only worked one other case together, and Addison had to give Isabel the 'you can hate me on Meredith's behalf or you can learn from me; your choice" speech during that one.

Eh, the whole thing is so unrealistic. Surgeons don't even know who the interns are; that's what residents are for, and residents don't have time to hold an intern's hand. In reality, Isabel would have been left to either figure it out on her own or die trying. I'm not sure that's a better approach though.

The same is true to a much lesser extent in education. You can't fix every kid, and the teachers who learn that are the ones who don't burn out in 3-5 years.

Oh, sure. It's a truism in any area where helping people is the objective. Some people just flat out don't want any help, or only want it long enough to gain some advantage before they rush back out to do whatever ignorant thing it is that brought them to the ER in the first place.

I don't have the same kind of antipathy for McDreamy that I do for Meredith, but I do hate to see Addison continuing so doggedly in the face of continued disinterest/dislike.

No, I don't really dislike McDrippy as such. But he's stringing Addison and Meredith along while he tries to decide what he wants, and it's not terribly fair to either one of them.

{Meredith's} behavior since finding out McDreamy was married has left much to be desired.

"Pick me! Choose me! Love me!" :rolleyes:

Truth be told though, Mere/Derek is reaching Buffy/Angel levels of "I don't give a crap anymore". I'd prefer they either resolve it or end it, but I have little hope of that happening anytime soon. Or ever, most likely.

Get Derek and Meredith offscreen for a bit and let the rest of the characters have some daylight. I like it!

One of the TWoP'ers has suggested Bailey's Anatomy. I'd vote for that.

I like Burke a lot, but I wish Christina wasn't such a priss. She's bound to break his heart one of these days.

Burke has way more patience than I do. But I like the way Christina takes little fits and starts towards the whole relationship thing. And Burke's pretty level-headed, except for the the dating an intern bit, so I'm guessing he can look after himself in the broken heart department. What was his thing last week? "You don't want to move, but I can't always be the one that takes the step. Any more steps, and I'm walking away."

(Thanks to the TWoP recapper.)

Angela

12-08-2005, 11:25 AM

Jonathan Togo took Cochrane's place. Rodriguez has been on the series from day one. They don't really have a put-upon sighing photographer any more.

In the few eps I've seen, Rodruigez did plenty of looking stoic and saying nothing. Or maybe it was just the ep where he was caught buying pot. Not a stellar example of realism, that one.

Ah. Well, see, I thought they were very careful to cover this, between the flu-ridden triplets, the 74 year-old mother, and Dorie's previous experience watching Meredith's quint coupled with her rapid descent into post-partum depression. I didn't really have a problem with the idea that they'd said no to an all-night vigil when Addison told them the child's true condition.

When did Addison tell them the child's true condition? If she did, I totally missed it. I was under the impression that the parents were just as much in the dark as Izzie. If the parents were aware and said no, that goes some way towards diluting my distaste for the whole thing.

Well, Addison did say that Isabel was the best doctor she'd seen in a long time. I'm not sure what she was basing that on though; they'd only worked one other case together, and Addison had to give Isabel the 'you can hate me on Meredith's behalf or you can learn from me; your choice" speech during that one.

I don't know the medical profession well enough to say that perhaps there was some indefiniable "x" factor involved, but I hope that's the explanation.

Eh, the whole thing is so unrealistic. Surgeons don't even know who the interns are; that's what residents are for, and residents don't have time to hold an intern's hand. In reality, Isabel would have been left to either figure it out on her own or die trying. I'm not sure that's a better approach though.

Now come on, Terry. This is tv medicine. There should be a montage at the end complete with emo-laden background song, followed by Isabel Seeing the Light and Realizing the Error of Her Ways. And if it was Meredith and not Isabel, I feel sure that's exactly what would happen.

Oh, sure. It's a truism in any area where helping people is the objective. Some people just flat out don't want any help, or only want it long enough to gain some advantage before they rush back out to do whatever ignorant thing it is that brought them to the ER in the first place.

In my case, it's usually home circumstances beyond either my or the children's control, but the same kind of principal applies, I suppose. And speaking of doing the same thing that brought you to the ER again, is there any chance we *won't* see Rosanna Arquette swallowing razors and chewing scenery in another "for your consideration" ep?

No, I don't really dislike McDrippy as such. But he's stringing Addison and Meredith along while he tries to decide what he wants, and it's not terribly fair to either one of them.

I'm not overly concerned with what's fair to Meredith at this point, since I think she stepped off the high road weeks ago. When you play with fire, you get burned, and she's had her fingers singed way too often this year for me to feel bad about what happened to her. Addison, otoh, made a much worse mistake, but she at least is trying to make amends. And I could respect McDreamy for picking his wife if he hasn't spent so much time since playing with her feelings and totally NOT leaving Meredith alone.

"Pick me! Choose me! Love me!" :rolleyes:

And I present Exhibit A in my assertion that Meredith doesn't have any high ground left.

Truth be told though, Mere/Derek is reaching Buffy/Angel levels of "I don't give a crap anymore". I'd prefer they either resolve it or end it, but I have little hope of that happening anytime soon. Or ever, most likely.

Actually I've heard rumors that Meredith may get a new romance soon. I would LOVE that. Might give me a little respect for the character back.

One of the TWoP'ers has suggested Bailey's Anatomy. I'd vote for that.

As would I.

Burke has way more patience than I do. But I like the way Christina takes little fits and starts towards the whole relationship thing.

I guess I just get frustrated with her to the point of grinding my teeth. She has the perfect boyfriend, and she's so stupid about it sometimes.

And Burke's pretty level-headed, except for the the dating an intern bit, so I'm guessing he can look after himself in the broken heart department. What was his thing last week? "You don't want to move, but I can't always be the one that takes the step. Any more steps, and I'm walking away."

And that was probably the one thing he's done that actually hacked me off. That sounded a whole lot like an ultimatum wrapped up in some reasonable-sounding rhetoric. Moving in together is more than just a step, it's a huge commitment. I don't think it's fair for him make it sound like it's a logical next step in a relationship so far has consisted of a lot of covert sex, a single date, and a couple of overnight stays. She deserves way more time on that one.

SamIAm

12-09-2005, 10:01 AM

In the few eps I've seen, Rodruigez did plenty of looking stoic and saying nothing. Or maybe it was just the ep where he was caught buying pot. Not a stellar example of realism, that one.

Well, standing around looking stoic (or thoughtful; I can never tell. Too much 'smell the fart' acting on this show.) is a CSI:Miami staple. Rodriguez was just going with the flow. And no, not terribly realistic, especially since most police departments will fire an officer for buying marijuana no matter the reason.

(Caveat: Yes, I have sympathy with the chemo patients who use it, and the cataract patients, and the AIDS patients, and yes, I wish it were legal for medicinal use, and no, I wouldn't even mind if it were legal and controlled as alcohol is.)

When did Addison tell them the child's true condition?

There was a scene with Isabel in the NICU. In the background, outside the room, you could see Addison talking to Dorie and her husband (Tom?). Judging by their reactions, I assumed Emily's impending death was the subject. Addison quickly jumping in to tell Isabel she'd already talked to the parents confirmed it for me.

...is there any chance we *won't* see Rosanna Arquette swallowing razors and chewing scenery in another "for your consideration" ep?

Chewing light bulbs, you mean. :)

I guess I just like Rosanna Arquette, so I hope we do. Then again, I'ma sucker for some actors. Maybe she could ratchet it down a notch next time.

I'm not overly concerned with what's fair to Meredith at this point, since I think she stepped off the high road weeks ago.

Well, it's probably the lesser of McDrippy's sins, but you know...

Addison, otoh, made a much worse mistake, but she at least is trying to make amends.

Yeah, and I think McDrippy's extracted his pound of flesh for it by now. All I'm saying is, if you can't forgive and forget, move on, and have the decency to tell the other party you aren't going to forgive and forget, so they should move on also.

And I could respect McDreamy for picking his wife if he hasn't spent so much time since playing with her feelings and totally NOT leaving Meredith alone.

It's almost as though he's setting up a situation in which he can respond in kind to his wife's infidelity.

And I present Exhibit A in my assertion that Meredith doesn't have any high ground left.

Oh, now, come on. Sooner or later, we had to have someone spew out a line more pathetic than "When you kiss me, I want to die".

Actually I've heard rumors that Meredith may get a new romance soon. I would LOVE that. Might give me a little respect for the character back.

As long as it isn't Patrick Dempsey in a dual role. ;)

I guess I just get frustrated with her to the point of grinding my teeth. She has the perfect boyfriend, and she's so stupid about it sometimes.

Well, yeah, there's that.

And that was probably the one thing he's done that actually hacked me off. That sounded a whole lot like an ultimatum wrapped up in some reasonable-sounding rhetoric. Moving in together is more than just a step, it's a huge commitment. I don't think it's fair for him make it sound like it's a logical next step in a relationship so far has consisted of a lot of covert sex, a single date, and a couple of overnight stays. She deserves way more time on that one.

Oh, wow. I had a completely different read on that. I don't think he mean "move" as "move in with me now or take off", I just think he was saying they're supposed to be a couple and do couple-y things, but he can't be the one always doing them alone or else they'll end up in two different places. So, you know, if he's the only one moving forward in the relationship, he'll be walking away from Christina.

Angela

12-09-2005, 04:57 PM

Well, standing around looking stoic (or thoughtful; I can never tell. Too much 'smell the fart' acting on this show.) is a CSI:Miami staple. Rodriguez was just going with the flow. And no, not terribly realistic, especially since most police departments will fire an officer for buying marijuana no matter the reason.

As I really thought this one would have. At the very least, having something other than "can you prove the THC wasn't passive?" and then seeing the IAB guy slink off with his tail between his legs would have been more convincing than what we got. I mean, c'mon--a police officer testing positive for THC and it being okay because no one could prove it wasn't passive?? Is there even such a thing as proving it is or isn't passive? I'm assuming it's like pregnancy; it's either there or it's not.

(Caveat: Yes, I have sympathy with the chemo patients who use it, and the cataract patients, and the AIDS patients, and yes, I wish it were legal for medicinal use, and no, I wouldn't even mind if it were legal and controlled as alcohol is.)

I'll go with you on the medicinal uses, but I'm not so certain about the rest. I'm not necessarily against, but I'm not for either. But that's a topic for another thread.

There was a scene with Isabel in the NICU. In the background, outside the room, you could see Addison talking to Dorie and her husband (Tom?). Judging by their reactions, I assumed Emily's impending death was the subject. Addison quickly jumping in to tell Isabel she'd already talked to the parents confirmed it for me.

And see, I thought that convo was just them finding out the results of the surgery, not that the condition was fatal. If Addison did indeed tell the parents about the baby's impending death, that would go some way toward mitigating my feelings about the "lesson".

Chewing light bulbs, you mean. :)

I guess I just like Rosanna Arquette, so I hope we do. Then again, I'ma sucker for some actors. Maybe she could ratchet it down a notch next time.

I like her too, but she overdid the crazy a bit IMO. I felt like "For your consideration" was stencilled all over her performance. I would love to see her a little more nuanced and a little less manic.

Yeah, and I think McDrippy's extracted his pound of flesh for it by now. All I'm saying is, if you can't forgive and forget, move on, and have the decency to tell the other party you aren't going to forgive and forget, so they should move on also.

In his defense, I think he still thinks things will work out between them. Or at the very least that he's still trying to hold on to a marriage that's dead. I don't think he's *deliberately* extracting that pound of flesh--but he's definitely still punishing her, even if it's only by holding her at arm's length when she's trying so desperately to reconcile.

It's almost as though he's setting up a situation in which he can respond in kind to his wife's infidelity.

And that would be the end of even the half-hearted defending I'm doing now.

Oh, now, come on. Sooner or later, we had to have someone spew out a line more pathetic than "When you kiss me, I want to die".

Someone already did. Several eps later when we got "I'm watching my lover die!!!!!1111!!!"

(Sorry. The emo melodrama lends itself naturally to the extra punctuation.)

And the scary thing is that's a line we could actually see repeated. This is a medical drama, you know.

As long as it isn't Patrick Dempsey in a dual role. ;)

Oh, I don't think it will be. If nothing else, the writers of this show have made it quite clear they're not afraid to spread the Meredith-lovin' around. I have a feeling they're saving a return to Mere/Der**...er, Meredith/Derek for another season, or at the very least the end of this one.

Oh, wow. I had a completely different read on that. I don't think he mean "move" as "move in with me now or take off", I just think he was saying they're supposed to be a couple and do couple-y things, but he can't be the one always doing them alone or else they'll end up in two different places. So, you know, if he's the only one moving forward in the relationship, he'll be walking away from Christina.

And I thought the conversation was a lot more literal. He was wanting her to take the key, she was reluctant, and he went into his speech about how she had to be the one to take the next step. Wasn't the implication that the next step was her moving in? I may need to rewatch this ep again. I was bustling around cleaning during, and I may have missed some key stuffs.

**I actually hate the use of "Mere/Der", but my presence at a couple of GA boards has caused me to think of them that way. I guess I should just be grateful it's not some weird amalgamation of both names like "Merek" or "Deredith".

SamIAm

12-12-2005, 12:54 PM

Is there even such a thing as proving it is or isn't passive? I'm assuming it's like pregnancy; it's either there or it's not.

Maybe the little THC molecules are just hanging around in their Barcaloungers if it's passive? ;) It did make me wonder why none of the people I knew who were discharged from the military never considered the passive THC defense.

(I haven't seen last night's GA episode yet, so if there was some huge change to the status quo, I am unaware.)

And see, I thought that convo was just them finding out the results of the surgery, not that the condition was fatal.

Well, it kind went hand-in-hand though. Without the surgery, the baby would die, and since they couldn't do the surgery...

In his defense, I think he still thinks things will work out between them. Or at the very least that he's still trying to hold on to a marriage that's dead.

Best I can do is say he at least isn't ready to commit to the idea hos marriage is dead. But I think it's pretty clear, even before the Thanksgiving episode, that he doesn't know exactly what he wants, so he's trying to keep his options open.

Someone already did. Several eps later when we got "I'm watching my lover die!!!!!1111!!!"

(Sorry. The emo melodrama lends itself naturally to the extra punctuation.)

Oh. I forgot that one. Gee, thanks for reminding me. ;)

I have a feeling they're saving a return to Mere/Der**...er, Meredith/Derek for another season, or at the very least the end of this one.

Yeah. Despite what it looks like, I truly don't think they'll have McDrippy cheating on Addison, so it'll take at least that long to make sure the marriage fails.

Wasn't the implication that the next step was her moving in? I may need to rewatch this ep again. I was bustling around cleaning during, and I may have missed some key stuffs.

Well, he'd asked her to consider moving in, but at the time he had the moving away conversation with Cristina, she was still freaking out about having been given a key to Burke's place. I dunno; when I watch the episode, it sounds fine, but reading the TWoP recap, it does come across as pushy.

TeSjah

12-14-2005, 09:28 AM

*Braces herself for first episode to air tomorrow*

Angela

12-14-2005, 11:34 PM

(I haven't seen last night's GA episode yet, so if there was some huge change to the status quo, I am unaware.)

I thought there were some pretty substantial changes to the status quo. McDreamy was pretty much a huge jerk to Addison. Oh, wait...that's not a change.

Okay, so I get that he was being honest. But being honest right then? When he's the one who insisted that they stay married when she had divorce papers in hand? The one who insists yet that he's not leaving Addison? When Addison's been bubbling around for two days talking about how much she loves Christmas and how this was "their" holiday? That's way past "bad timing" and right into "plain old mean".

Best I can do is say he at least isn't ready to commit to the idea hos marriage is dead. But I think it's pretty clear, even before the Thanksgiving episode, that he doesn't know exactly what he wants, so he's trying to keep his options open.

I think it's perfectly clear what he wants. A plate full of cake and a big old fork, all at the same time.

Oh. I forgot that one. Gee, thanks for reminding me. ;)

I live to serve. Heh.

Yeah. Despite what it looks like, I truly don't think they'll have McDrippy cheating on Addison, so it'll take at least that long to make sure the marriage fails.

Far as I'm concerned, he's already left her. Emotional desertion (and emotional adultery, for that matter) take a huge toll too.

Well, he'd asked her to consider moving in, but at the time he had the moving away conversation with Cristina, she was still freaking out about having been given a key to Burke's place. I dunno; when I watch the episode, it sounds fine, but reading the TWoP recap, it does come across as pushy.

You know, right now I still find Burke/Christina pretty sweet, but there's going to come a time when their inability to connect without much wrangling and hassle begins to grate.

SamIAm

12-15-2005, 12:45 PM

Okay, so I get that he was being honest. But being honest right then? ... That's way past "bad timing" and right into "plain old mean".

And yet, the person who wrote the episode, Krista Vernoff, thinks what McDrippy did was a good thing (http://www.greyswriters.com/). Anyway, the ball is definitely back in Addison's court.

I think it's perfectly clear what he wants. A plate full of cake and a big old fork, all at the same time.

Well, I can see where he's coming from, but the tact he's taking is way off. He needs to barricade himself in his trailer, leaving both Addison and Meredith alone, until he made up his mind. But I guess that makes for fairly dull TV.

You know, right now I still find Burke/Christina pretty sweet, but there's going to come a time when their inability to connect without much wrangling and hassle begins to grate.

But they're the ones doing it right. Relationships take work and stuff. My biggest objection is they've concentrated pretty heavily on Cristina making most of the compromises. It's time for Burke to have to see Cristina's POV, I think.

savvy sinatra

12-15-2005, 03:45 PM

My biggest objection is they've concentrated pretty heavily on Cristina making most of the compromises. It's time for Burke to have to see Cristina's POV, I think.
Well, there was some of that at the end of the episode, with the menorah and the book he was reading in bed. I appreciate how they don't end it after just one fight; so many TV relationships do that for "drama" but it always rings so horribly wrong to me. You fight, you disagree, but even if you don't come to a verbal compromise, sometimes all that matters is that you're together, which sounds sappy, but it's true. I appreciate the way they're portraying this relationship, it seems very real to me.
As does the Addison/Derrik train wreck. Even though I agree he just needs to cut himself off from both women, there's no way he's going to be able to where he works. I appreciate the portrayal of this relationship as well, just because they're actually dealing with the hard stuff.
And Bailey still rocks. As does George. That little speech to that obnoxious family was great.

Andromeda7_4

12-21-2005, 03:58 PM

Isabel is just one of those names for which there is no good nickname.

True, but of all the ones I've heard, Izzie is the worst possible choice!
Why not Belle, Bella, Isa?

Better still, why not just call her Isabel?

tojoson

02-12-2006, 10:36 PM

boy, Christina Ricci sure looks different

i hardly would have recognized her

damn, i saw THAT coming
'> he used to get the paper a day early, couldn't he have seen that.<

Morrigan

02-12-2006, 11:04 PM

he used to get the paper a day early.
Thanks! I couldn't place where I'd seen him before.

***OK, I know I don't work for the bomb squad but, isn't there a box or something? Don't they usually put the bombs in a container. Why'd he start walking down the hall with it? That struck me as utterly unrealistic which totally ruined the ending for me.***

tojoson

02-12-2006, 11:32 PM

i think > that's what he was going down the hall for. there was another guy from the bomb squad there with a container between them.
they just wanted to get it out of the OR in case it blew up<

Angela

02-12-2006, 11:56 PM

That was my take too, tojo.

Do we really need spoiler space for an ep that's already aired? Just in case, spoilers for tonight's ep:

I could see the big metal barrel-looking thing they put bombs in down the hallways a bit. And that ending may have been telegraphed, but it still got me. Sure, as soon as Meredith started following him down the hallway I knew what was gonna happen, but it still got to me emotionally. Poor Kyle Chandler. I wouldn't have minded him and Meredith as a couple.

I really liked the girls-in-the-shower thing. It was a nice closer after last week's opener, both with George as the observer.

I like Addison more than ever. She's human, yeah, but she really loves her husband. I wish I thought he deserved it. And I almost wish they hadn't made Addison so likeable. Because it makes it harder and harder for me to watch anything with Meredith/Derek and not want to poke my own eye out. Or theirs.

Morrigan

02-13-2006, 08:50 AM

i think > that's what he was going down the hall for. there was another guy from the bomb squad there with a container between them.
they just wanted to get it out of the OR in case it blew up<
Ah, OK, thanks. I didn't see the other guy. I just saw him walking down the hall. That does make sense.

savvy sinatra

02-13-2006, 07:18 PM

Because it makes it harder and harder for me to watch anything with Meredith/Derek and not want to poke my own eye out. Or theirs.
Blech. I was hoping Meredith would explode.

Morrigan

02-13-2006, 08:09 PM

I like Addison more than ever. She's human, yeah, but she really loves her husband. I wish I thought he deserved it. And I almost wish they hadn't made Addison so likeable. Because it makes it harder and harder for me to watch anything with Meredith/Derek and not want to poke my own eye out. Or theirs.
You know, I was weondering if it was because I didn't watch the show last season but I felt the same way. I know what Addison did was wrong and Derek had every right to be pissed. However, the fact that he chose to get back with her and yet still has feelings for Meredith kind of bothers me. I really felt bad for Addison last night.

Angela

02-13-2006, 09:53 PM

You know, I was weondering if it was because I didn't watch the show last season but I felt the same way. I know what Addison did was wrong and Derek had every right to be pissed. However, the fact that he chose to get back with her and yet still has feelings for Meredith kind of bothers me. I really felt bad for Addison last night.

I've watched this show from the first ep on, and I feel exactly the same way. Derek wants to have his cake and eat it too, and it annoys me to no end. Sure, he's got some megawatt hottage going on, but nothing makes up for him being such a jerk to Meredith and Addison. I confess, I have less sympathy for Meredith than I do for Addison; given that Addison is the original transgressor, that seems strange. But if Mark shows up next week to romance MEREDITH, I really am going to throw up. I realize Meredith is the title character, but many nights I think she's the least interesting character on the show.

Morrigan

02-13-2006, 10:08 PM

I realize Meredith is the title character, but many nights I think she's the least interesting character on the show.
I have to admit, (other than the great ensamble) Christina and Bailey are what keep me watching.

Angela

02-13-2006, 10:17 PM

I have to admit, (other than the great ensamble) Christina and Bailey are what keep me watching.

I like George and occasionally Alex, but Izzie, Bailey, and Burke are my people.

ejlivesforever

02-13-2006, 11:43 PM

I'm kinda mixed about the ending. I mean, doesn't anyone feel sorry for the guy who got blowed up? If Meredith got blowed up, I'd be inconsolable right now.

If I didn't know any better... George and Hannah have some chemistry.

Andromeda7_4

02-14-2006, 07:26 AM

I'm kinda mixed about the ending. I mean, doesn't anyone feel sorry for the guy who got blowed up? If Meredith got blowed up, I'd be inconsolable right now.

The guy who got blowed up was Disposable Guest Star.
I mean, TPTB HAD to blow somebody up; and they wouldn't want to sacrifice a regular.

I didn't care for this episode, it was just so predictible.
I could see George's inspirational speech to Bailey coming from a mile away; and knew he'd end up coaching her through labor.

And Derek doing that last life-saving blow to Tucker's chest (the one that revives him) made me want to kick out my television screen.
Wonder if they lifted that from LOST?

SamIAm

02-14-2006, 12:48 PM

I really liked the girls-in-the-shower thing.

:naughty:

Most of the time, Meredith is the least interesting character. And not to rain on any parades, but most of those times, she's in scenes with McDrippy. Which is not to say that Pompeo and Dempsey don't do a great job; they do. But been here, seen this, already replaced the poster on the wall, T-shirt is worn out, ready to move on now.

I'm kinda mixed about the ending. I mean, doesn't anyone feel sorry for the guy who got blowed up?

I do. I kind of want to know what's going to happen to the guys who made the shell in the first place. I mean, why exactly did they need an exploding shell to "recreate" WWII?

If I didn't know any better... George and Hannah have some chemistry.

Hey, I thought that too.

One thing did surprise me, I guess. A while back, Shonda Rhimes said something to the effect that they hadn't envisioned Bailey as married, but when Chandra Wilson became pregnant, they gave Bailey a husband. I thought they'd take the opportunity to kill him off last night, but no, the Lost-ian heart revival method worked again.

Morrigan

02-20-2006, 05:40 PM

OK so I realize I'm very new to the show and I assume this affects the way I view the story and characters. That being said, I really like McSteamy, hell I even like McSteamy/Addison and I'm rather interested in Derek/Addison. It seems like there is so much room for good story telling. Why are they trying so hard to stay together? If he wasn't willing to leave her then why does he not seem to care about her? Is his indifference a case of still feeling betrayed and the fact that he hasn't forgiven her or does he no longer love her? I find this all rather interesting and yet I don't think I'll ever get the story I'm looking for.

On the other hand, I still don't find Mere all that interesting, I did feel sorry for her after going to see her father but, it's hard for me to identify with a character that's so self involved. All of the scene's with George just ticked me off. I can't believe this guy is supposed to be her friend and she ignores him like that. The final scene just about killed me, I was so angry at the character.

I'm very close to joining the TWOP gang and begging for a show without Mere and maybe even w/o McDreamy. The other characters are so much more interesting.

baba

02-20-2006, 06:05 PM

OK so I realize I'm very new to the show and I assume this affects the way I view the story and characters. That being said, I really like McSteamy, hell I even like McSteamy/Addison and I'm rather interested in Derek/Addison. It seems like there is so much room for good story telling. Why are they trying so hard to stay together? If he wasn't willing to leave her then why does he not seem to care about her? Is his indifference a case of still feeling betrayed and the fact that he hasn't forgiven her or does he no longer love her? I find this all rather interesting and yet I don't think I'll ever get the story I'm looking for.

On the other hand, I still don't find Mere all that interesting, I did feel sorry for her after going to see her father but, it's hard for me to identify with a character that's so self involved. All of the scene's with George just ticked me off. I can't believe this guy is supposed to be her friend and she ignores him like that. The final scene just about killed me, I was so angry at the character.

I'm very close to joining the TWOP gang and begging for a show without Mere and many even w/o McDreamy. The other characters are so much more interesting.

I agree! Meredith is the worst character on that show! Christina annoys me because she is arrogant and ful of hubris, Meredith annoys me because she is a selfinvolved, selfish little girl who runs afters somebody´s husband, George annoys be because he is so weak and McDreamy and Alex annoy me because they think they are God´s gift to women! Yeah right! The only characters I like are Izzie, Burke, Bailey, and Addison! Those are the characters TPTB should bet their money on! The others pale in comparison!

SamIAm

02-20-2006, 10:01 PM

I didn't even need the promos to know that was going to end badly.

Why are they trying so hard to stay together?

Derek has this flawed noblilty streak that says he has to try to make it work with Addison 'cause she's his family. I think he does care about her in that way you care about someone you have an obligation to care about, but yeah, she isn't the she Derek wants to be with.

What I'm wondering after last night's episode is why Addison is willing to put up with Derek's obvious extreme interest in Meredith instead of just leaving Derek. What happened with her and Mark back in New York? I can't buy that Derek is such a wonder that, in Meredith's words, he's not the kind of guy you leave.

I can't believe this guy is supposed to be her friend and she ignores him like that. The final scene just about killed me, I was so angry at the character.

A few episodes ago, she had to stop and think about it when George told her she either had to get rid of her ill-behaved dog or he'd move out. There was a great scene at the end where George finally told Meredith off, but it didn't seem to stick.

...George annoys be because he is so weak...

George is weak? He's not as assertive as the others, but he's far from weak. Ask Addison or Bailey or her son, William George Bailey Jones, or Shepard or Burke or George's father or his brothers... Heck, if I needed a surgeon, he's my guy.

I like the cast as a whole, though I don't care a lot about MerDer, (and since that's what Shonda Rimes calls'em, it's almost canon), and the news that one of the interns is leaving the program soon isn't making me jump for joy at the thought of one of them leaving. Alex leaving I could live with, and there was some foreshadowing of it Sunday, but now I'm worried it might be George. That would just suck beyond the telling of it.

Morrigan

02-20-2006, 10:14 PM

Derek has this flawed noblilty streak that says he has to try to make it work with Addison 'cause she's his family. I think he does care about her in that way you care about someone you have an obligation to care about, but yeah, she isn't the she Derek wants to be with.
OK, that makes sense, it's a lame ass reason to stay married but it makes sense as far as the character goes.

What I'm wondering after last night's episode is why Addison is willing to put up with Derek's obvious extreme interest in Meredith instead of just leaving Derek. What happened with her and Mark back in New York? I can't buy that Derek is such a wonder that, in Meredith's words, he's not the kind of guy you leave.
I'm hoping it's something more along the lines of guilt or maybe a desire to make it up to him. IIRC one of the reasons Derek gave for giving his marriage another try was that he wasn't willing to end 10 years of his life and cut out a part of the family. Maybe it's the same thing for her. I'd hate to think that she's really still in love with him. I can understand still loving him and caring about him but I'd really feel for her if she is still in love with him and he treats her with such casual disregard. Although, I'm sure plenty of people would disagree with me :D

A few episodes ago, she had to stop and think about it when George told her she either had to get rid of her ill-behaved dog or he'd move out. There was a great scene at the end where George finally told Meredith off, but it didn't seem to stick.
That was before I started watching, now I really don't like her.

Alex leaving I could live with, and there was some foreshadowing of it Sunday, but now I'm worried it might be George. That would just suck beyond the telling of it.
I could deal with Alex leaving, I'm not all that attached to the character.

SamIAm

02-20-2006, 10:41 PM

OK, that makes sense, it's a lame ass reason to stay married but it makes sense as far as the character goes.

Yeah, it does, 'cept as trying goes, he's not exactly killing himself. It also explains Meredith POV about her father too, since apparently he didn't try at all. Or not to Meredith's satisfaction anyway.

Although, I'm sure plenty of people would disagree with me :D

Yeah, well, good-looking he may be, but Addison would have to have a pretty low opinion of herself to stick around under those circumstances.

That was before I started watching, now I really don't like her.

It was freakin' awesome.

I could deal with Alex leaving, I'm not all that attached to the character.

As long as it isn't George. Or Izzie, or Yang. I think I could live without Meredith too, but Grey's Anatomy, so not likely.

Angela

02-21-2006, 12:16 AM

It's my understanding that the intern is leaving the program at Seattle Grace but not the show. If I was just guessing, I'd say that the leaving will be of a temporary nature. I think they've got a winning mix with this cast of characters, and surely they're not going to fix something that ain't broke. They're not going to get rid of Meredith (and she's the only one I'd be okay with losing) or Cristina, obviously. Izzie has a new romance coming up, since Denny (heart patient guy) is coming back for an 8-9 ep arc. I would guess they'll use that arc to (eventually) ramp up the Alex/Izzie stuff. Which leaves George, and since he is probably the single most universally loved character, I truly don't think they're going to mess around too much with him. Maybe one of the interns will get a chance to apprentice temporarily in another department?

tojoson

02-21-2006, 12:22 AM

rergarding the intern leaving the program,

as i understand it, the person is leaving the intern program, NOT THE SHOW

so, i can't remember, did Alex pass his boards, if he didn't, that would kick him out of the program

Angela

02-21-2006, 12:30 AM

so, i can't remember, did Alex pass his boards, if he didn't, that would kick him out of the program

Yes, he did pass. He got the letter and was too nervous to open it, so Izzie opened it for him and told him outright he passed.

SamIAm

02-21-2006, 08:51 AM

It's my understanding that the intern is leaving the program at Seattle Grace but not the show.

I wondered about that. That's better, but even so, I'd have to think whoever it is is going to end up with a seriously reduced role in the series, like Olivia's occasional walk-bys.

XAngelsCharismaX

02-21-2006, 12:58 PM

Ungh. I want McSteamy as a regular. STAT.

Angela

02-21-2006, 10:31 PM

I wondered about that. That's better, but even so, I'd have to think whoever it is is going to end up with a seriously reduced role in the series, like Olivia's occasional walk-bys.

I still think it may be temporary and plot-directed. Like, remove Alex from the scene, hook Izzie up with the heart guy, then Alex comes back for some Presto!Drama. Or have George and Meredith fight, George leaves the program, and then a couple of months from now he swoops back in to save the day like he usually does. I don't think it will be Meredith or Cristina, and Izzie has the new romance coming up, so it almost has to be Alex or George.

BUT....it's also my understanding that the producers, in an effort to thwart spoiler seekers, often misidentify doctors and interns in scripts and sides, and I also think the cast has been directed to do so as well. It was Ausiello, I think, who once said he thought Heigl had deliberately thrown him off track. Interns are referred to as residents and vice-versa. So maybe it's actually one of the residents who's taking a leave of absence. Or maybe even someone like Webber. (Come on--is it really possible that Pompeo let something that major just accidentally slip out?)

Ungh. I want McSteamy as a regular. STAT.

I second that motion!

SamIAm

02-22-2006, 08:53 AM

Ungh. I want McSteamy as a regular. STAT.

Only if he swears off Addison. No need for romantic rectangles. Or pentagons, if we throw in George.

Like, remove Alex from the scene, hook Izzie up with the heart guy, then Alex comes back for some Presto!Drama.

Well, I'd kind of like a break on the romance-drama front. That may just be me.

(Come on--is it really possible that Pompeo let something that major just accidentally slip out?)

I thought I'd seen it elsewhere as well, but I'm on board with it being a producer-sponsored foiler.

Angela

02-22-2006, 11:59 PM

Only if he swears off Addison. No need for romantic rectangles. Or pentagons, if we throw in George.

You know, I kind of like McSteamy and I really like Addison. I'd be all over some Addison/McSteamy action if it didn't mean leaving the way clear for MerDer, and that I just can't condone in any way, shape, or fashion.

Well, I'd kind of like a break on the romance-drama front. That may just be me.

I'm good with a break in any romance involving Meredith and...well, anyone, and I'd like for Burke and Cristina to just get along for a while. But I wouldn't mind seeing more Izzie!love.

I thought I'd seen it elsewhere as well, but I'm on board with it being a producer-sponsored foiler.

I FINALLY opened my TV guide for this week and saw the quote for myself. Pompeo actually blurted it out. Brought it up after she'd been asked some completely unrelated question. And I quote:

Interviewer: If you had a very special Valentine's episode, what surprises would it have?

Pompeo: A lesbian scene! (laugh) Speaking of surprises, did you know that one of the interns is leaving the intern program?

As a segue, "speaking of surprises, did you know...?" ain't exactly subtle. I'm now convinced it's a plant.

XAngelsCharismaX

02-23-2006, 01:02 AM

You know, I kind of like McSteamy and I really like Addison. I'd be all over some Addison/McSteamy action if it didn't mean leaving the way clear for MerDer, and that I just can't condone in any way, shape, or fashion. Agreed. McSteamy seemed genuine, and Addison deserves better than Derek if he's simply gonna string her along the way he is right now.

tojoson

02-26-2006, 10:27 PM

aaahhhhh, 'lactating Buffy"

Morrigan

02-26-2006, 11:05 PM

Agreed. McSteamy seemed genuine, and Addison deserves better than Derek if he's simply gonna string her along the way he is right now.
You know, for one brief moment I actually had hope that Addison/Derek would have a decent storyline development. Perhaps get to a good place and instead we get a Derek/Mere ending. Man, they're going to drag that thing out forever. Ironically, and it's probably because I like the character more, but I see actual chemistry between Addison/Derek and most angst than chemistry between Mere/Derek. Then again, and I admit I never saw Derek/Mere when they were "happy together".

I felt so bad for George tonight but I'm hoping this is the kick in the pants he needs to move on and even grow up. I also like Dr. Tores, she was pretty cool.

Not sure how I feel about Alex/Izzy/Denny, it's too soon to tell but Alex isn't high on my list so, it's not having a big impact on me.

Bailey rocks! Burke's pretty cool too :)

Shadow4Corangela

02-27-2006, 12:20 AM

I felt so bad for George tonight but I'm hoping this is the kick in the pants he needs to move on and even grow up. I also like Dr. Tores, she was pretty cool.
Aww. I know. Poor George. If I didn't hate Meredith before, I do now. :evileye:

Dr. Tores/George4EVA!!123111

ETA: By the way. Is Denny the guy from Supernatural, you know Dean and Sam's father. Or am I just way off?

SamIAm

02-27-2006, 10:41 PM

Is Denny the guy from Supernatural, you know Dean and Sam's father. Or am I just way off?

Nope, that's the same guy.

So... Tears during sex... Yeowch. And Buffy thought she had it tough just 'cause Angel turned into a murderous psychopath.

I thought I'd be riding the "We Hate Meredith" train too, but I kinda feel sorry for her. I mean, yeah, but it's not like her life, even not including her self-inflicted McDrippy angst, has been all that. It's still her mess to clean up though.

Of course, having an Amy in the episode did spare Meredith some wrath by virtue of comparison. At least George wasn't at death's door.

I am really, really, really so totally tired of MerDer.

Denny and Izzie hits me as being preferable to Alex and Izzie, but she is rushing head-long up to and, one suspects, well over a line.

In other news of the obvious: Bailey? Rawques.

Angela

02-27-2006, 11:19 PM

I thought I'd be riding the "We Hate Meredith" train too, but I kinda feel sorry for her. I mean, yeah, but it's not like her life, even not including her self-inflicted McDrippy angst, has been all that. It's still her mess to clean up though.

Of course, having an Amy in the episode did spare Meredith some wrath by virtue of comparison. At least George wasn't at death's door.

Didn't cause me to spare much wrath. I might have felt more sorry for Meredith if she hadn't handled it so horribly. There are ways to say, "Hey, this might be a mistake" without deflating the poor guy quite that thoroughly. So to speak. And I don't even mean in just last night's ep. It's been obvious to everyone else from day one that George was in love with her, and for her to have kept herself so determinedly oblivious was bad enough, but then to use him and his feelings in order to assuage her own pain...? And then, even worse, to avoid him the next day until she decides to unload to Alex, of all people. I know, I know...Meredith is a mess, and we're supposed to all be in awe of how the writers are willing to go out on a limb and present us with a truly flawed character. Blah blah blah. They've flawed her beyond the liking IMO.

I am really, really, really so totally tired of MerDer.

No more so than I, especially after the tease of healthy McDreamy/Addison laughter we got last night. I mean, seriously...where do Meredith and Derek think they're going? And for her to be so laughy/happy after breaking poor George's heart and causing him to leave...

(Not, I should add, that I think George's behavior is beyond reproach. I just think that, in George's case, his feelings for Meredith overcame his better sense. Not to mention I think he was the seduced and not the seducer. Which makes her own behaviour later even...oh, bah. You know how I feel.)

Denny and Izzie hits me as being preferable to Alex and Izzie, but she is rushing head-long up to and, one suspects, well over a line.

I think you are correct, and I suspect that's what Alex was trying to point out to her in the preview for next week. If nothing else, this should mean a healthy amount of screentime for Izzie, and that can only be a good thing.

I hope.

In other news of the obvious: Bailey? Rawques.

Speaking of more screen time, when does her maternity leave end? I'm ready to have her back fulltime.

SamIAm

02-28-2006, 01:45 PM

There are ways to say, "Hey, this might be a mistake" without deflating the poor guy quite that thoroughly. So to speak.

Well, it was an emotional reaction. Controlling one's emotions, especially in that particular circumstance, not so easy.

It's been obvious to everyone else from day one that George was in love with her, and for her to have kept herself so determinedly oblivious was bad enough, but then to use him and his feelings in order to assuage her own pain...?

Ah. Well, she had no requirement to launch a preemptive strike, so until George declared his intentions, Meredith was under no obligation to deal with George's feelings.

The real problem is George picked the worst time ever to make his move, and Meredith picked just exactly the wrong response.

And then, even worse, to avoid him the next day...

To be fair, the avoidance was mutual.

...until she decides to unload to Alex, of all people.

But Alex guessed the problem. Ninety-nine percent of the hard work was done by him guessing the problem. And they have shared a moment before; was it not Meredith to whom Alex confessed failing his boards?

They've flawed her beyond the liking IMO.

She's still not my favorite either, but I don't think this was as reprehensible as it might have turned out. I even see at TWoP there are many who are making the case for this all being George's fault and he got what he deserved. Interesting. Wrong, but interesting.

No more so than I, especially after the tease of healthy McDreamy/Addison laughter we got last night.

I actually dared to hope that, between the laughing and the oh-so-familiar 'we aren't friends' speech, we'd get a MerDer break. Alas, more the fool am I.

And pretty darn soon (like three episodes ago) they're going to have to show me why Addison is putting up with his crap. I cannot believe McDrippy is worth this level of abuse.

I think you are correct, and I suspect that's what Alex was trying to point out to her in the preview for next week.

Yeah, I saw the preview too, but it was kind of obvious where Izzie was going when she started talking over Burke. Like we don't know he doesn't tolerate that well. ;)

That said, I also think Denny's got a red shirt on underneath his gown, so it's not going to stop the Alex/Izzie train for too long.

Speaking of more screen time, when does her maternity leave end? I'm ready to have her back fulltime.

I don't know, but they've done pretty good keeping Bailey involved even though she's on maternity leave. Other producers, no names, of course, should take note.

Angela

02-28-2006, 11:13 PM

Well, it was an emotional reaction. Controlling one's emotions, especially in that particular circumstance, not so easy.

Perhaps not. I'm willing to concede that it was an especially vulnerable time for Meredith. But it still seemed like a pretty crappy thing to do. Maybe it's because her crying didn't seem all that authentic to me, much like the crying in the linen closet. Big sobbing wails with no evidence of tears have never done much for me emotionally.

Ah. Well, she had no requirement to launch a preemptive strike, so until George declared his intentions, Meredith was under no obligation to deal with George's feelings.

No obligation except the bonds of friendship and the boundaries of decency and kindness. And even the dipping of pens into company ink. Oh, I forgot, that means nothing at Seattle Grace.

(I say that with tongue firmly in cheek. If it weren't for the hook-ups, it wouldn't be GA.)

The real problem is George picked the worst time ever to make his move, and Meredith picked just exactly the wrong response.

This is true, and I have to hand it to the writers--I didn't even stop to think how totally soapy it was to have George show up to make his declaration immediately after Meredith is seemingly abandoned by everyone she loves and who should love her.

But Alex guessed the problem. Ninety-nine percent of the hard work was done by him guessing the problem. And they have shared a moment before; was it not Meredith to whom Alex confessed failing his boards?

See, there you go with all the logical and the sense-making. ;)

I think I, like Izzie, am just firmly on George's side. And I know how, to him, that was (if you'll pardon me) the unkindest cut of all.

I even see at TWoP there are many who are making the case for this all being George's fault and he got what he deserved. Interesting. Wrong, but interesting.

You should have read some of the comments at the writer's blog last week. George is a creepy stalker and Izzie is a pimp. Meredith, of course, can do no wrong.

And pretty darn soon (like three episodes ago) they're going to have to show me why Addison is putting up with his crap. I cannot believe McDrippy is worth this level of abuse.

I think it's pretty obvious that Addison still has a more-than-healthy dose of guilt and self-blame about the affair with Mark. Not only is she putting up with McD, she takes Meredith's dog, walks said dog even with her dislike of the outdoors, lives in a trailer (which, I can assure you, is NOT fun), and seems to deep down accept a nasty case of poison oak as some kind of karmic retaliation. My problem is not with Addison so much as it is with her creep of a husband. It's one thing for her to still be trying to punish herself, another thing altogether when he does it.

That said, I also think Denny's got a red shirt on underneath his gown, so it's not going to stop the Alex/Izzie train for too long.

I think you're right, but it's nice to see Alex on the other side of the guerney for a change. And I think I read somewhere that Denny's here for at least 8-9 eps, so we should get a chance to thoroughly explore the situation.

I don't know, but they've done pretty good keeping Bailey involved even though she's on maternity leave. Other producers, no names, of course, should take note.

Yeah, but she's had excuses--first she was having the baby, then she was visiting or picking up her husband. Now that they're both home, it will be less realistic to see her hanging out at the hospital, and that can't be a good thing.

(I would comment on the other producers, no names, of course, except there's nothing left for me to say. Using nice language, anyway.)

SamIAm

03-01-2006, 01:14 PM

But it still seemed like a pretty crappy thing to do.

Oh, yeah, it was.

No obligation except the bonds of friendship and the boundaries of decency and kindness.

Well, as long as George kept quiet about it and kept denying it to anyone who mentioned his obsession, for all Meredith knew, he never intended to act on it. So confronting him about something he hasn't made her business yet? I don't see any need for that.

If it weren't for the hook-ups, it wouldn't be GA.

Heh. All the way back to the Webber/Ellen Grey days. :)

I think I, like Izzie, am just firmly on George's side. And I know how, to him, that was (if you'll pardon me) the unkindest cut of all.

I too am of the opinion that Meredith needs to take the first step to "fix" this, and with something more than going back to the way things were. George was the more emotionally invested and yes, the more emotionally traumatized.

You should have read some of the comments at the writer's blog last week. George is a creepy stalker and Izzie is a pimp. Meredith, of course, can do no wrong.

Well, it's a big contingent of MerDer 'shippers there was my impression the last time I bothered to read the comments. (I read the blog, but I have no need for added aggrevation.) Anything that gets in the way of the 'ship or casts aspersions on the involved must be evil and cannot be tolerated, for all Wuv Is Twue and Pure.

My problem is not with Addison so much as it is with her creep of a husband. It's one thing for her to still be trying to punish herself, another thing altogether when he does it.

I'd agree that Addison must be feeling pretty guilty about sleeping with Mark, but even so. She knows McDrippy hasn't forgiven her (and likely never will), she knows he loves Meredith, and she knows he'd prefer to be in her company. Addison doesn't seem like she'd be the type to stay with McDrippy just so Meredith can't have him, and she doesn't seem like the doormat type. I want a definitive answer.

And I think I read somewhere that Denny's here for at least 8-9 eps, so we should get a chance to thoroughly explore the situation.

**Eight episodes would go right to the end of the season, provided ABC ordered a full 22 episodes in addition to showing the four left over from the first season. I guess that's more tear-jerking ammo for the finale.**

(I would comment on the other producers, no names, of course, except there's nothing left for me to say. Using nice language, anyway.)

Water long gone from under the bridge anyway, I suppose.

Angela

03-01-2006, 11:20 PM

Well, as long as George kept quiet about it and kept denying it to anyone who mentioned his obsession, for all Meredith knew, he never intended to act on it. So confronting him about something he hasn't made her business yet? I don't see any need for that.

I might have zigged when I should have zagged there. I was referring to Meredith's taking his feelings into consideration after the reveal. She knows she doesn't love him, knows she's not really attracted to him, and (I had thought) regarded him as one of her closest friends. I would have thought, under those conditions, the aforementioned bonds of decency and friendship might have kicked into gear after dude says he loves her.

I too am of the opinion that Meredith needs to take the first step to "fix" this, and with something more than going back to the way things were. George was the more emotionally invested and yes, the more emotionally traumatized.

Judging past history, Meredith isn't really the fix-it type. Excepting the hand-on-the-bomb episode, she's really been pretty passive, and that includes her slide into surgery because it's what her mother did. Oh, wait, there was "Pick me!", if you consider that a proactive move. I mostly just thought it was kind of tasteless.

Anything that gets in the way of the 'ship or casts aspersions on the involved must be evil and cannot be tolerated, for all Wuv Is Twue and Pure.

You know, that sounds scarily familiar. No wonder I found myself predisposed to dislike the MerDer contingent.

I'd agree that Addison must be feeling pretty guilty about sleeping with Mark, but even so. She knows McDrippy hasn't forgiven her (and likely never will), she knows he loves Meredith, and she knows he'd prefer to be in her company. Addison doesn't seem like she'd be the type to stay with McDrippy just so Meredith can't have him, and she doesn't seem like the doormat type. I want a definitive answer.

I dunno. I'm not sure Addison is willing to admit to herself that her marriage is over. Especially not when Derek throws out the occasional signal that things are okay. Apparently they've reconnected physically, or at least I've had that impression for a few weeks. Addison is a doer, and I see her trying to the nth degree to make her marriage work. I don't know if there is just a heretofore unreached low that their marriage will reach or if he'll actually have to leave. What I'd like to see happen is her finally realize herself it's not going to work and dump his sorry ass. If I had my way, Meredith would be happily married by then.

**Eight episodes would go right to the end of the season, provided ABC ordered a full 22 episodes in addition to showing the four left over from the first season. I guess that's more tear-jerking ammo for the finale.**

That scenario seems likely, and also explains why it seems this show has had more new eps than most. Whatever the case, I'm sure the finale will be plenty tear-jerky enough. I'll be the first to admit that I cry easily and often, but I've shed more tears over this show than any other I can recall. It may not be high drama, but it certainly gets to me.

tojoson

03-15-2006, 10:45 AM

i was surprised that no one here posted about 'Donut' being on Grey's last week

also, Ausiello says that Michelle Tractenberg will guest on the April 4th show

SamIAm

03-15-2006, 12:00 PM

i was surprised that no one here posted about 'Donut' being on Grey's last week

I gather most people around here would prefer to forget Donut. ;)

also, Ausiello says that Michelle Tractenberg will guest on the April 4th show

MT is on the April 4 (April 4 being a Tuesday) episode of House.

tojoson

03-15-2006, 12:30 PM

oops sorry, i got my shows crossed

SamIAm

03-15-2006, 12:59 PM

oops sorry, i got my shows crossed

Ah. I thought Ausiello got his shows crossed. ;)

Angela

05-08-2006, 02:00 AM

Wow. I think I cried as much in this ep as I did in the one where the two people were stuck on the pole. How sad was that?

Callie? Not growing on me. I love the idea that she traipses almost completely naked into a bathroom occupied by two women, uses the bathroom in front of them, leaves without washing her hands, and George is expected to defend her against the Mean Girls who talked about her? As if that behavior is somehow normal? Whatever. I'm not saying that Izzie and Meredith's behavior was above reproach, but they wouldn't be normal if they didn't find something strange about the whole thing?

Derek was a grade A, top class jerk tonight. Moreso than usual even. I hope Meredith does end up with Finn, since he's her only current hope for a healthy relationship no matter how scary or damaged they are indivdually or as a couple. I hope Addison moves on--but only after Derek falls completely in love with her and grovels in the dirt to get her back. He had some nerve trying to take the high road with Meredith. At least she wasn't MARRIED while she was making the rounds, which is more than Derek can say. I liked her line about him not being able to say anything about the way she fixed what he broke.

Izzie is heading for a heartache. I have a bad feeling about Denny's future. Or lack thereof.

I love the new and improved Bailey. Hasn't lost her harsh, still the Nazi, but at the same time you can see she's softened some, especially in situations like tonight.

All in all, I thought it was a good ep. Except how I hate Derek. And despite Alex's miracle save tonight, I still hate him for last week. And if the rumors about Addison/Alex action in the future come true, I may....well, I probably won't quit watching, but I'll be doing some serious fast-forwarding.

Morrigan

05-15-2006, 08:41 AM

Is it me or has this show moved beyond the realm of quirky drama and straight into Soap Operaville?

Last night's episode was a real eye roller I hope they can pull off something good for the finale because I litterally wanted to smack most of those characters around last night.

DamnSkippy

05-15-2006, 10:14 AM

So they have George spout all that talk about "family" so it will justify him just standing there and letting Izzy kill Denny? Nuh-uh. And if Izzy is that messed up, she shouldn't be a doctor. That was so over-the-top insanely improbable, IMO, that they're about to lose my viewership and I love this show. What a wack plot just to have a cool finale. At least they didn't kill anyone with a helicopter like I feared.

Angela

05-15-2006, 09:35 PM

Much as last night was indeed an eye-roller, Izzie's still my fave character, and if she's gone so am I.

Morrigan

05-15-2006, 10:29 PM

Much as last night was indeed an eye-roller, Izzie's still my fave character, and if she's gone so am I.
I doubt she's going anywhere, unless you've heard something? Last night was so bad it completely turned me off the finale...just can't bother watching. Maybe I'll be back next season.

Angela

05-16-2006, 01:27 AM

You should have watched, Morrigan. I think tonight almost made up for last night. No more scenery chewing, no more eye-roll maneuvers, just some genuinely touching and well-acted (and certainly more subdued) scenery....maybe some tasting, but definitely not chewing. This show gets me Every. Stinkin'. Time. And crazy or not, KH has some serious acting chops. I believe her. Seems like everyone got some good in tonight. I found myself more sympathetic towards Callie, towards Meredith, even toward McJerkface to a certain extent (although I'm definitely rooting for McVet). I enjoyed tonight about a kabillion times more than last night.

XAngelsCharismaX

05-16-2006, 02:35 AM

Sighs. The season finale had me wanting some Alex/Izzie all over again.

Angela

05-16-2006, 08:08 AM

Sighs. The season finale had me wanting some Alex/Izzie all over again.

Me too. And I've had a serious hate-on for Alex ever since he told that guy to get a lawyer. Tonight he just might have redeemed himself, and yes, I had a couple of fluttery feelings about Alex/Izzie too.

Morrigan

05-16-2006, 09:02 AM

You should have watched, Morrigan. I think tonight almost made up for last night.
I caught bits and pieces of it. I liked what I saw, for the most part. I thought the Izzy scene with the Chief (don't know his name) was wonderful, great insight to her character and nicely acted.

I also liked the scene between Christina and the Chief even though I don't like her character all that much right now.

No more scenery chewing, no more eye-roll maneuvers, just some genuinely touching and well-acted (and certainly more subdued) scenery....maybe some tasting, but definitely not chewing.
I don't know about that, the ending was pretty eye rolling. The angsty staring contest, the stupid IMO, conversation that followed. It was way cheesy.

I found myself more sympathetic towards Callie, towards Meredith, even toward McJerkface to a certain extent (although I'm definitely rooting for McVet). I enjoyed tonight about a kabillion times more than last night.
I think I could only like or route for Mere if she didn't follow in her mother's foot steps. Frankly I found the whole cliff hanger to be pretty predictable. She's going to choose the Vet and you're going get another season of longing looks and I want you but I can't have you scenes, cause lord know they haven't run that horse far enough into the ground. Then finally, you're going to get some more angst followed by Mere/Drippy getting together only to find out that either Mere is pregnant with the Vet's baby or Drippy got Addison pregnant and now they have to go back to their mutual angst ridden corners for another season.

LaLa247

05-16-2006, 09:11 AM

Hi! I watch GA! :grin: I also liked the scene between Christina and the Chief even though I don't like her character all that much right now. Christina's last scene totally redeemed her for me. I'm ashamed to say I teared up when Burke started moving his hand and she rushed across the room, holding that hand tightly. Her actions said more than she ever could. It was beautiful.

Also? I HATE romantic cliffhangers.

SamIAm

05-16-2006, 10:11 AM

So a while back we had Donut. Last night, it was Vinnie VanLowe, and tonight, Jackie. Does Shonda watch VM? Can we look forward to Charisma making a GA appearence? That would be kewl.

I didn't have the same antipathy for part one that seems to be the norm here. I get why Izzie did it; love makes you do the wacky, right? And why Goerge just stood there is pretty clear. Sometimes you know what the other person intends to do, but it's so horribly wrong you can't believe they're actually going to do it. That doesn't explain why he didn't knock Izzie out of the way and call a code, but there's worse. By which I mean Burke also knew what Izzie was going to do and did pretty much nothing about it. Except put his girlfriend in the middle of it all. That's the inexplicable part.

But yeah, Heigl did a fine job with it all. I think everyone had it going on though, even Vinnie and Jackie.

Christina's last scene totally redeemed her for me.

At some point, they're going to need to tell us that Christina was raised in a box with no human contact whatsoever to explain why her intimacy issues run so freakin' deep.

(And for the love of all things televisionish, tell me WHY THE HECK ADDISON PUTS UP WITH McDRIPPY!)

Anyway, I pretty much enjoyed everyone's scenes with the Chief, being as it gave us their little insights into their own psyches. Also, Alex: "I did nothing. I'm completely innocent here."

Also? I HATE romantic cliffhangers.

Well, you're in luck. It's Mer/Der, not romance. (And not a cliffhanger. See Morrigan's post.)

So next season, GA moves to Thursday up against CSI. Should be interesting. But there'd better be an Isabel in the mix, or I'll be unhappy too.

Angela

05-16-2006, 07:32 PM

Oooh. See, to me the Mer/McDrippy/McVet triangle at the end barely registered on the Richter scale. For me the REAL cliffhanger is how they're going to get Izzie back in the program. I'll admit that I'm partial to KH and have been lo these many years since Roswell, but I thought she was the standout last night. Yeah, Sam, I can sort of understand her actions from the night before because she really did seem hysterically desperate to get him THAT heart--she was convinced Denny was going to die without it. But it was the more quiet desperation she played last night followed by the unexpectedly real happiness followed by the devastatingly real grief in her tears that had me joining her that really really won me over. I had to give up reading over at TWoP because it made me so mad. (I'd forgotten how much those people get off on not liking tv.)

And Alex? Yeah, I loved what Alex did.

And even Christina and Burke and the Chief. I LOVED the Chief not wanting to help her be less human. That was awesome.

But mostly it was Izzie and Denny. I was so caught up in that that I really didn't pay all that much attention to the other. Mer and Der can both bite me, although Mer had sort of redeemed herself prior to the quickie in the examining room.

tojoson

05-18-2006, 07:12 PM

oh, go

here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nlyWznzXHc&search=grey%27s%20anatomy)

and watch the upfront presentation
especially the second part

Angela

09-24-2006, 12:55 AM

So. I can't believe no one here is talking about the premiere, including myself. We've talked about nothing else at school in the teacher's lounge. I honestly didn't realize how many people liked this show.

And I didn't realize it'd actually beat CSI in the ratings. Heh.

I really enjoyed the ep. I liked that it picked up so quickly after the finale, so I guess I'm glad Shonda et al. decided to add another ep into the mix. I'm glad we got to see Izzie coping with Denny's death. And I'm glad we got to see Bailey, too. I didn't realize she'd taken it so hard, nor that she might have a little remorse of her own with which to deal.

Callie continues to grow on me. I may even have to own up to her total awesomeness one of these days.

Christina made me cry at the end. So did Meredith. Yes, I said it. I liked Meredith when she was telling Izzie "You're not alone." In fact, the only one I really didn't like at all was McDreamy, and I might have been more sympathetic to him if he'd bothered to go home and talk to his wife before rushing to tell Meredith his marriage was over.

Er...did anyone happen to hear about CTV accidentally airing the second ep by mistake? I did. And I happen to have a linky dinky. PM me if you're interested. The link was out in the open at the board where I found it, but while I don't mind sharing I'm not comfortable posting it out in the open. I'm waiting to dl a new player, but I've been assured this is indeed a working link. Chances are it won't be available past Monday morning, so if you're interested speak up quickly. And once I've shared it with a few people, those people can feel free to respond to anyone else who responds.

Morrigan

09-24-2006, 11:20 AM

Christina made me cry at the end. So did Meredith. Yes, I said it. I liked Meredith when she was telling Izzie "You're not alone." In fact, the only one I really didn't like at all was McDreamy, and I might have been more sympathetic to him if he'd bothered to go home and talk to his wife before rushing to tell Meredith his marriage was over.
Ditto. Especially after seeing that flashack of Addison/Derek from when he found out about the affair. I felt so sorry for Addison, not that she's blameless or anything but he should have just ended it. He never should have taken her back just to treat her like crap.

McDreamy also pissed me off, everyone is over there helping Izzie mourn and all he cares about is seeing Mere. What an ass. I don't know Chris O'Donnel's character's name but I like him, I'd rather see Meredith with him than McDreamy.

You know what's really pissing me off, is that from the previews I don't think he's going to tell Addison until Meredith makes a decision. Which is a totally shitty thing to do.

Christina was awesome, I really liked how she broke down and cried at the end, it makes me feel like she's human. Bailey crying nearly did me in, she's such a strong woman and to see her like that is heartbreaking.

I like Callie but I always did, she's odd but compared to Meredith and Christina she's pretty normal as far as relationships go.

ejlivesforever

09-25-2006, 12:38 AM

Er...did anyone happen to hear about CTV accidentally airing the second ep by mistake? I did. And I happen to have a linky dinky. PM me if you're interested. The link was out in the open at the board where I found it, but while I don't mind sharing I'm not comfortable posting it out in the open. I'm waiting to dl a new player, but I've been assured this is indeed a working link. Chances are it won't be available past Monday morning, so if you're interested speak up quickly. And once I've shared it with a few people, those people can feel free to respond to anyone else who responds.

So that's what I was watching. I was expecting the repeat but then I caught on to a few bits and it left me wondering if I missed an episode. About the episode: The ending just killed it.

Morrigan

09-29-2006, 06:50 AM

OK so Thursday night's suck. I can only record 2 shows and I've got 3 to watch.. Stupid machine won't let me watch the 3rd while recording the other two. Sadly, Grey's Anatomy did not make the cut. :(

Well, at least I tuned in right in time to see McSteamy exit the bathroom, hello :naughty:

You know what's really sad? I saw more chemistry in that "breakup" scene between Derek/Addison at the hotel, than I any "romantic" Mere/Derek scene. Ah well, as least Addison got the hottie ;)

Angela

09-29-2006, 07:41 AM

Whew! I can finally talk again! Much as I enjoyed seeing last night's ep almost a full week early, it made it hard to converse with anyone who hadn't seen it.

Morrigan, you missed a pretty good ep. Not quite as strong as last week, but a good ep nonetheless. And not to tempt you, but I think you can watch GA at the ABC website starting 24 hours after it airs on tv.

In regards to the hotel scene, all I saw was Derek feigning "feeling sick" about what had happened. In fact, the only time I've seen real emotion in an Addison/Derek scene was when he was throwing her out of their home. All those "Yay Mer/Der!" interviews Dempsey gave over the summer make me wonder if his yearning to be hooked up with the title character hasn't played into his lack of acting when it comes to his "wife".

I'm not sure how I feel about Meredith not choosing. On the one hand, it at least delayed the inevitable return of Mer/Der. On the other hand, Finn is a perfectly nice guy who doesn't deserve to be lead on by Meredith when we know she will never choose him in the end.

I liked that Christina managed to grow a little without Burke's fond-yet-gently-paternal hand helping her along. I also like that Burke has a real blind spot when it comes to his Mamma. I find it difficult to believe that everyone really loves her, although I can see why Burke does. Before he ever uttered a word, I loved Burke's dad.

I loved the conversation with Bailey and Izzie at the end, even if it the sitch with the kid and his dad was so anvillicious it was telegraphed a mile away. I loved the muffins and the baking, since that was totally in character with the Izzie we've known since day one. I loved that even steeped in detachment and grieving, Izzie tells Joe not to let Addison drive. (And I forgot to mention it, but I loved Drunk!Addie. She's a hoot!)

All in all, a very good ep.

tojoson

09-29-2006, 02:45 PM

Morrigan, ABC is going to be repeating Grey's on Fridays at 8:00 P.M. (at least for the next couple of weeks--after that who knows, probably depends on the ratings)

speaking of ratings, from Zap2it

"Grey's Anatomy" scored a 14.9/22 for ABC at 9 p.m., although CBS' "CSI," 14.1/21, had a narrow lead among total viewers (23.49 million to 23.31 million)

Morrigan

09-29-2006, 02:52 PM

Cool, I'll DVR it tonight.

XAngelsCharismaX

09-29-2006, 07:22 PM

You know what's really sad? I saw more chemistry in that "breakup" scene between Derek/Addison at the hotel, than I any "romantic" Mere/Derek scene. Ah well, as least Addison got the hottie ;)

AMEN. McSteamy is a blessing, as far as I'm concerned. Leave the muck-ups to one another, and let's get Addison some REAL lovin'.

SamIAm

09-29-2006, 09:57 PM

Sorry to say this, but that was the first episode of GA I haven't liked on any level. I guess it was bound to happen. Oh, well.

So as many of my fellow TiVo'ers experienced, the ending got cut off after Whats-his-name alked out of the shower. Did anything important happen after?

Angela

09-29-2006, 10:13 PM

Sorry to say this, but that was the first episode of GA I haven't liked on any level. I guess it was bound to happen. Oh, well.

Not even Bailey? I didn't think that was possibly for you. ;)

So as many of my fellow TiVo'ers experienced, the ending got cut off after Whats-his-name alked out of the shower. Did anything important happen after?

Derek got a small, smug smile on his face, said "Well, I feel better now", took a sip of Addison's champagne, and sauntered out the door. Not so much with the "important" as with the "annoying", but I think I'm permanently biased against McDrippy.

Now something of more significance is the promo for next week, which you can find at www.greys-media.com. Just make sure you right click and save on the link; it's in the side bar on the homepage or a little ways down in the middle. (I believe the actual link is www.greys-media.com/videos/promos/seasonthree/303.zip )

SamIAm

09-30-2006, 05:55 AM

Not even Bailey? I didn't think that was possibly for you. ;)

Little snippets, but overall, not so much. Callie was fine, and I have to feel really sorry for Finn, who's heading full-throttle towards that brick wall. (Finn and Izzie? Could work.) Sandra Oh does an awesome deer-in-the-headlights, and Burke the elder's "Hang in there", but that's about it. For me, the whole was less than the sum of the parts.

...but I think I'm permanently biased against McDrippy.

Welcome. We'll make room on the couch. Margarita?

Now something of more significance is the promo for next week...

Cheers.

I heard rumor that Shonda Rhimes is developing a new series with Jeffrey Dean Morgan. Anyone heard anything about it?

Angela

09-30-2006, 10:25 AM

I have to feel really sorry for Finn, who's heading full-throttle towards that brick wall.

I like Finn, I really really do. Why isn't there a way to communicate with characters onscreen so we could tell the poor guy he could do so much better? OTOH, I have faith in Finn's powers of perception. That and his relatively short episode arc give me faith that he'll eventually figure it out.

(Finn and Izzie? Could work.)

Dude. You can't go putting ideas in my head like that. Izzie's my girl, and I have to 'ship her with someone. (It's like a sickness, I know.) I may have to keep Finn/Izzie in my back pocket. In case Alex/Izzie doesn't work out, ya know. (Especially since those Addison/Alex rumors are fairly persistent.)

For me, the whole was less than the sum of the parts.

I'll give you that. Having watched it so close on the heels of the premiere, I think it suffered in the comparison. But there were parts I really really liked--like Bailey and Izzie's convo at the end. I also had a healthy appreciation for McSteamy's initial appearance, even if I didn't like McDrippy getting a "Get Out of Jail Free" card.

Welcome. We'll make room on the couch. Margarita?

On the rocks, no salt please.

I heard rumor that Shonda Rhimes is developing a new series with Jeffrey Dean Morgan. Anyone heard anything about it?

That sounds vaguely familiar, but I can't put my finger on where I heard it. But given Shonda's fairly obsessessive admiration of Denny, I can certainly believe it.

SamIAm

10-02-2006, 02:14 PM

OTOH, I have faith in Finn's powers of perception.

Note: To close a spoiler tag, use [/spoiler], not [/quote]. ;)

Yeah, Finn's not slow on the uptake, or at least faster than many, but he still thinks he has a chance, when, you know, not so much. Then again, he doesn't know what we know.

(Especially since those Addison/Alex rumors are fairly persistent.)

Eww! What happens, Addison falls down ten flights of stairs and suffers irreversible brain damage?

I'll give you that. Having watched it so close on the heels of the premiere, I think it suffered in the comparison.

That, too. At least I'm not thinking the ship is sinking and all hands must standby the life boats though. I just didn't care for this episode.

I also had a healthy appreciation for McSteamy's initial appearance...

You and Krista Vernoff, if her blog entry is anything to go by.

...even if I didn't like McDrippy getting a "Get Out of Jail Free" card.

One imagines another GOoJF card in the offing for Meredith, come the day Finn gets flushed.

But given Shonda's fairly obsessessive admiration of Denny, I can certainly believe it.

And her equally obsessive admiration of JDM, if her blog entry is anything to go by.

Angela

10-02-2006, 05:38 PM

Note: To close a spoiler tag, use [/spoiler], not [ /quote]. ;)

Well. Tres embarrassing. I had to go back and read my own post three times to find that. Thank you muchly. :)

Yeah, Finn's not slow on the uptake, or at least faster than many, but he still thinks he has a chance, when, you know, not so much. Then again, he doesn't know what we know.

Given the apparent lack of all discretion among the interns and Finn's apparent coziness with same, I have to think he'll find out at some point. I suspect Meredith's GOoJF card will be tied into Finn's leaving, as opposed to hers.

Eww! What happens, Addison falls down ten flights of stairs and suffers irreversible brain damage?

Now, now. Alex redeemed himself considerably in the finale, and I think he's continuing to grow as a character. Then again, he did cause Addison considerable trouble by telling that guy to get a lawyer. If she knows he's the one who set that up and still falls for him...? Then my estimation of her will go down a notch, yes.

(But I'm starting to believe the most persistent of the Al/Ad rumors have been started by the Mer/Der crew, who mainly wanted to guarantee last season that there could never be a return to the formerly happy marriage.)

That, too. At least I'm not thinking the ship is sinking and all hands must standby the life boats though. I just didn't care for this episode.

Even at its less-than-best, I still find it more enjoyable than a lot of what's out there. Including some of the most buzzed about new shows.

You and Krista Vernoff, if her blog entry is anything to go by.

While I'm not quite as anti as the "We could do it better" thread at TWoP, I think whoever suggested a "check yes if you like me" box at the bottom might have been straying towards the truth.

And her equally obsessive admiration of JDM, if her blog entry is anything to go by.

There is that. Is he married? Maybe there's an ulterior motive behind the creation of the new show.

SamIAm

10-03-2006, 01:45 PM

Well. Tres embarrassing. I had to go back and read my own post three times to find that. Thank you muchly. :)

De nada. Also, "been there, done that, got the commerative baseball cap."

Given the apparent lack of all discretion among the interns and Finn's apparent coziness with same...

Oh... Finn and Callie! You know, after that gets messed up. Or is Sara Ramirez a cast member now?

I suspect Meredith's GOoJF card will be tied into Finn's leaving, as opposed to hers.

Yeah, I suppose. Though I could deal if a main character did a Bad Thing and was held responsible for it. I just hope Finn gets to, you know, clean McDrippy's clock once. Or twice. Not that I advocate violence.

If she knows he's the one who set that up and still falls for him...? Then my estimation of her will go down a notch, yes.

Well, I'd not only lose a bunch of respect for Addison, but, c'mon, how many attending/intern romances do we actually need? Mer/Der, Burke/Yang, Callie/George... Okay, Callie and George may get a pass 'cause Callie's in Orthopedics and George is in Surgical, but we've established that A/I is a Very Bad Thing, so maybe there should be someone other than just Bailey who isn't dating an intern. (And Callie may just be a resident; I don't recall.)

(But I'm starting to believe the most persistent of the Al/Ad rumors have been started by the Mer/Der crew...

Ah. Shades of quackery then.

Even at its less-than-best, I still find it more enjoyable than a lot of what's out there. Including some of the most buzzed about new shows.

I feel about the same, but having had the 'it's still better than "X percent" of shows on TV' argument rammed down my throat during the decline and fall of BtVS and Angel, (among others; cf. VM and BSG), it makes my skin crawl to say it. ;)

While I'm not quite as anti as the "We could do it better" thread at TWoP, I think whoever suggested a "check yes if you like me" box at the bottom might have been straying towards the truth.

I must have missed something. Do people not like McCheatingBestFriend?

Is he married? Maybe there's an ulterior motive behind the creation of the new show.

I don't know if JDM is, but I'm pretty sure Shonda is.

Angela

10-03-2006, 06:27 PM

Or is Sara Ramirez a cast member now?

She is, I believe. Full time and everything.

Yeah, I suppose. Though I could deal if a main character did a Bad Thing and was held responsible for it.

Ahhh. Consequences. I think there's a special tv rule about main characters and consequences. They don't have any.

I just hope Finn gets to, you know, clean McDrippy's clock once. Or twice. Not that I advocate violence.

Now that would truly be Must See TV. In fact, I think I'd have to Must See it a lot.

Well, I'd not only lose a bunch of respect for Addison, but, c'mon, how many attending/intern romances do we actually need? Mer/Der, Burke/Yang, Callie/George... Okay, Callie and George may get a pass 'cause Callie's in Orthopedics and George is in Surgical, but we've established that A/I is a Very Bad Thing, so maybe there should be someone other than just Bailey who isn't dating an intern. (And Callie may just be a resident; I don't recall.)

I'm pretty sure Callie is a resident, but it's still a case of Intern/Authority Figure. And honestly, I get really tired of all the people whining about how in a real hospital Izzie would never be allowed inside the doors again, because the idea of Meredith and Christina being all BFF and dating the two hot young attendings at the same time is so beyond the realm of what could really happen, it's not even funny. I'm surprised they didn't send those two couples to the prom in the same limo as a double date. Maybe they'll save that for next year's prom. ;)

Ah. Shades of quackery then.

So you picked up on that too. Heh.

I feel about the same, but having had the 'it's still better than "X percent" of shows on TV' argument rammed down my throat during the decline and fall of BtVS and Angel, (among others; cf. VM and BSG), it makes my skin crawl to say it. ;)

Well, the biggest problem with those arguments you mentioned, most notably the first two shows, was that they were argued continually during the waning years in both quality and viewers. Those were more dying gasps than battle cries. I don't know much about the VM fandom, but so far as BSG I think there's enough critical acclaim that at least there's a leg to stand on. And as far GA goes, in my case I actually am still enjoying it. I guess the "it's better than...." argument is more by way of justification than a real defense, because I don't think it needs too much defending. (And I know you weren't attacking. In fact, I don't even really know how I got here. Where am I again? ;) )

I must have missed something. Do people not like McCheatingBestFriend?

I think it's more the case that people don't like the writers. Or at least, they are highly critical of Shonda and especially Krista, whose blog attempts they liken to grade school notes being passed around. Of course, they love any and all positive comments about Meredith, Derek, and/or Mer/Der, and since so much of the bloggage is nothing but a MerDer verbal tongue bath I honestly don't see where they've got cause for complaint.

(I really don't either, since they seem appreciative of all the people appreciate.)

SamIAm

10-04-2006, 11:11 AM

She is, I believe. Full time and everything.

Well, good. Maybe the rumors of Callie as psycho-stalker-killer-monster-woman are wrong as well. Which is fine, 'cause other than her sudden and disturbing need to facilitate Mer/Der, I like her.

Ahhh. Consequences. I think there's a special tv rule about main characters and consequences. They don't have any.

Unless they get pregnant and ruin the genius' grand design. What?

Now that would truly be Must See TV. In fact, I think I'd have to Must See it a lot.

"They should show that every year at Christmas."

...but it's still a case of Intern/Authority Figure.

Yeah, that was the point I was going after, but my brain again failed to cooperate.

And honestly, I get really tired of all the people whining about how in a real hospital Izzie would never be allowed inside the doors again...

Oh, well, anyone who's watching GA for procedural accuracy needs to be smacked upside the head with a reality stick. I mean, starting right from the beginning, any intern who ever talked back to a resident, let alone an attending or the chief of any service would be practicing their new mantra, 'Would you like to SuperSize that?" So it is unrealistic that Izzie would be let back in, mostly because it's unrealistic that she'd still be working there when Denny showed up in the first place. ;)

That said, sticking at Izzie being allowed in ignores the fact that George, Meredith, and Christina are equally guilty with Izzie, and Bailey and Webber are in a conspiracy to cover up their illegal activity.

So you picked up on that too. Heh.

It meshed with a conversation I had with a friend about why folks were so quick to jump on the "CordyN4EVAH(many exclamation points)" wagon.

I guess the "it's better than...." argument is more by way of justification than a real defense, because I don't think it needs too much defending. (And I know you weren't attacking. In fact, I don't even really know how I got here. Where am I again? ;) )

Yeah, I'm not hatin' on GA. But the real problem with the 'it's still better than "X percent" of shows on TV' argument is the person who makes such a claim is conceding the decline in quality. Basically, [i]Angel in season four still wasn't as bad as, say, Big Brother, but that didn't mean Angel in season four wasn't crap in its own right.

I think it's more the case that people don't like the writers. Or at least, they are highly critical of Shonda and especially Krista, whose blog attempts they liken to grade school notes being passed around.

Eh. Who cares about their blogs? Until they start filming them, anyway. Although I do find it kind of disturbing that Rimes is so 'Mer/Der yay!' too. She's ignoring some fairly deceitful and hurtful behavior on both their parts, towards each other as well as towards others, while cheerleading for them. Whedon may have his many faults, but at least he acknowledged B/A was a bad idea all around. At least until the ad campaigns started.

Angela

10-04-2006, 06:36 PM

Well, good. Maybe the rumors of Callie as psycho-stalker-killer-monster-woman are wrong as well.

....

I think I'm glad I missed those rumors.

Which is fine, 'cause other than her sudden and disturbing need to facilitate Mer/Der, I like her.

I don't know that I see her facilitating Mer/Der as much as I see her trying to assimilate herself into George's "family". She stopped Meredith and tied her dress, and then gave McDrippy almost an accusatory look. Or at least a sort of resigned "You big jerk" look. That wasn't supporting the relationship so much as it was supporting Meredith. Same thing could be said about the panty claimage, and one might assume that the "get a room" could even be a gentle warning about onsite fraternization.

At least, that's the way I want to take it because I really like Callie.

Unless they get pregnant and ruin the genius' grand design. What?

When the grandest of your grand designs originates with a crude joke and lack of any other good ideas, you really don't have a leg to stand on when you start blaming your cast for your own storylines.

"They should show that every year at Christmas."

Sounds familiar. I feel like I *should* know it...

That said, sticking at Izzie being allowed in ignores the fact that George, Meredith, and Christina are equally guilty with Izzie, and Bailey and Webber are in a conspiracy to cover up their illegal activity.

Oooooh, I see the problem. You haven't heard the latest. See, Izzie is also responsible for Burke getting shot, since he wouldn't have rushed back and put himself in the line of fire if she hadn't cut the LVAD. These days ALL wrongs can be traced back to Izzie. Unless they're Addison's fault. Between the two of them, it's a wonder civilization hasn't fallen to ruin already.

It meshed with a conversation I had with a friend about why folks were so quick to jump on the "CordyN4EVAH(many exclamation points)" wagon.

You mean like Cordy/Gunn? And Cordy/Wes? Cordy/Groo? Even *gag* ConCord? Yep, lots and lots of quackery.

Basically, [i]Angel in season four still wasn't as bad as, say, Big Brother, but that didn't mean Angel in season four wasn't crap in its own right.

Hey now! I tuned in to Big Brother All Stars this summer. It was the first time I'd ever watched it, and it wasn't exactly Emmy worthy programming. In fact, at times it was smarmy and nasty and occasionally bordered on vile. But I'd still take it over AtS season 4 any day of the week.

Eh. Who cares about their blogs? Until they start filming them, anyway.

I don't know that I care overmuch about their blogs except that I do care about their mindsets as they write, especially what it means for the characters I like. For example, I love to see them gushing about Heigl's performances because it gives me hope that Izzie will continue to get meaty storylines.

Although I do find it kind of disturbing that Rimes is so 'Mer/Der yay!' too. She's ignoring some fairly deceitful and hurtful behavior on both their parts, towards each other as well as towards others, while cheerleading for them. Whedon may have his many faults, but at least he acknowledged B/A was a bad idea all around. At least until the ad campaigns started.

I find it disturbing that Shonda apparently wanted us all to realize that what Addie did to Derek was "so much worse" than what Derek did to her. And the main reason I find it so disturbing is that I could not disagree more. But I digress. In hindsight, I find it in me to be glad that Whedon et al. never kept blogs. Reading them justify and rationalize all the crap they pulled might have sent me over the edge.

SamIAm

10-05-2006, 10:51 AM

I think I'm glad I missed those rumors.

They started right after Callie's speech to Mer and Izzie wherein she went on about the Wonder of Man that is George. (The one where Izzie points out to Mer that George is Callie's McDreamy.) Apparently, the only reason any woman could find George to be as desirable as McDrippy is 'cause she's a psycho-stalker-killer-monster-woman. Issues? Me?

That wasn't supporting the relationship so much as it was supporting Meredith.

Well, yeah, Mer/Der isn't her primary goal, it just turns out that way.

When the grandest of your grand designs originates with a crude joke and lack of any other good ideas, you really don't have a leg to stand on when you start blaming your cast for your own storylines.

You obviously lack the required discernment to allow you to see the genius of the work. Philistine!

Sounds familiar. I feel like I *should* know it...

BtVS, "Faith, Hope, and Trick." Actual quote: "They should film that story and show it every Christmas." Xander, re: Faith's naked slaying story.

You haven't heard the latest.

I am woefully out of touch.

These days ALL wrongs can be traced back to Izzie. Unless they're Addison's fault. Between the two of them, it's a wonder civilization hasn't fallen to ruin already.

Well, I'm convinced! Death to the Evil Ones! But I don't get it; Addison may have some role in blocking Mer/Der (for which she should be canonized), but what did Izzie do? Or maybe I don't want to know...

In fact, at times it was smarmy and nasty and occasionally bordered on vile. But I'd still take it over AtS season 4 any day of the week.

Okay. Insert your own thing which is so bad, you'd watch an AtS/S4 episode instead. Though I think turn the TV off if it came to that. ;)

For example, I love to see them gushing about Heigl's performances because it gives me hope that Izzie will continue to get meaty storylines.

I get that.

I find it disturbing that Shonda apparently wanted us all to realize that what Addie did to Derek was "so much worse" than what Derek did to her.

Well, another fallacy in debate: lesser degree of bad isn't justification to do bad. In simpler terms, bad is bad and can never be good. Something even our elected representatives can't work out.

In hindsight, I find it in me to be glad that Whedon et al. never kept blogs. Reading them justify and rationalize all the crap they pulled might have sent me over the edge.

Yeah, the solicitation of ass-kisses at the Bronze was bad enough. Of course, I hear most of them have blogs now. The only one I've seen is Jane Espenson's. It's pretty good; probably better for an aspiring writer though.

Angela

10-05-2006, 07:37 PM

Apparently, the only reason any woman could find George to be as desirable as McDrippy is 'cause she's a psycho-stalker-killer-monster-woman. Issues? Me?

Okay, I am *definitely* glad I missed those rumors.

You obviously lack the required discernment to allow you to see the genius of the work. Philistine!

I used to have that kind of discernment but I had it surgically removed sometime during season 3 AtS.

Well, I'm convinced! Death to the Evil Ones! But I don't get it; Addison may have some role in blocking Mer/Der (for which she should be canonized), but what did Izzie do? Or maybe I don't want to know...

Well, it started when she became a pimp. You might remember it as her encouraging George to either take his shot or get over it, but it was actually her pimping. I've never quite figured out who was pimped out and who was pimped to, but the GA quackers seem quite certain she was pimping someone. Then there's her criminally insane behavior when it came to falling in love with a patient. Personally I think that was only because all the attendings were taken, so some allowances should be made. Then there was her cutting the LVAD, which even I can admit was wrong. But where I can see why it happened, people who accept with perfect equanimity all the other unimaginable TV-ish behavior that goes on the "hospital" are ready to tar and feather her. And, as I said, it's her fault that Burke was shot because he was forced to rush back to SG and put himself in the line of fire. Someone even said they hope to see Burke angry at her and Izzie trying to deal with her guilt and making some kind of serious recompense to him because of him getting shot.

Cause, ya know, otherwise Izzie is obviously just going to skip off into the sunshine.

What I suspect is REALLY the matter is that someone out there discovered KH has some serious acting chops, resulting in an increase in her screentime which may or may not have contributed to a lessening of quality Mer/Der time there towards the end of the season.

Honestly, being an Izzie fan is feeling more and more like being a CC/Cordy fan every day.

Well, another fallacy in debate: lesser degree of bad isn't justification to do bad. In simpler terms, bad is bad and can never be good. Something even our elected representatives can't work out.

You're forgetting the automatic "shades of grey" status attributed to all hot stars of romantic dramadies. McDreamy WILL get his GOoJF card, if Shonda has to shove it down all our throats!!

Yeah, the solicitation of ass-kisses at the Bronze was bad enough. Of course, I hear most of them have blogs now. The only one I've seen is Jane Espenson's. It's pretty good; probably better for an aspiring writer though.

Ooooh, I might actually be interested in sneaking a peak at Jane Espenson's blog. Not only do I retain fond memories of her from Way Back Then, I just got a glimpse of the synopsis of one of her eps of BSG. It looks dandy.

SamIAm

10-06-2006, 09:12 AM

Okay, I am *definitely* glad I missed those rumors.

It may have been due to George thinking he was good enough for Meredith. Instead of being, you know, far, far too good for Meredith.

Well, it started when she became a pimp. You might remember it as her encouraging George to either take his shot or get over it, but it was actually her pimping.

Ah, I forgot that being supportive of a friend is a criminal offense. Obviously she should have mocked and ridiculed George. I get it now.

Then there's her criminally insane behavior when it came to falling in love with a patient.

Let me guess; she's supposed to be desperately in love with Alex and unable to see anyone else other than Alex?

Then there was her cutting the LVAD, which even I can admit was wrong. But where I can see why it happened, people who accept with perfect equanimity all the other unimaginable TV-ish behavior that goes on the "hospital" are ready to tar and feather her.

As well they should. She is the only person ever in the history of history to do something stupid out of desperation and high emotion. Whereas, I guess, Meredith and McDrippy doing it in the exam room was merely an expression of their twue wuv and perfectly acceptable. To hell with Finn and Addison; they are just Satan's henchmen. (No, I am not going down this road again. I will not succumb to the bitter.)

And, as I said, it's her fault that Burke was shot because he was forced to rush back to SG and put himself in the line of fire.

With the disclaimer that I don't believe anyone deserves to be shot, I will say that Burke had some sense that something not good was going on, and could have avoided being shot simply by giving up gloating in front of the other surgeon and telling Webber his suspicions so Webber could find out what was going on. Then no one would have been out in the bay to be shot. Except Vinnie, I guess. Is it Izzie's fault Vinnie got shot too?

Cause, ya know, otherwise Izzie is obviously just going to skip off into the sunshine.

Yes, well... Hmm... All I've seen of last night's episode is the teaser, --> but I was fairly livid over the idea that the party line as espoused by Bailey is going to be Izzie did nothing wrong. There's GOoJF cards, and then there's plain old "WTF?". The idea Izzie did nothing wrong falls into the latter category. <--

What I suspect is REALLY the matter is that someone out there discovered KH has some serious acting chops, resulting in an increase in her screentime which may or may not have contributed to a lessening of quality Mer/Der time there towards the end of the season.

Honestly, I too thought Heigl was just there for the pretty (not that GA lacks in the pretty), but I am far more impressed with her mad acting skillz now than when she was on Roswell. Which, come to that, is probably more an indictment of Roswell than Heigl. But Appleby is terrible in any context. Heigl owned last season's finale though.

Honestly, being an Izzie fan is feeling more and more like being a CC/Cordy fan every day.

It's a price I'm willing to pay. ;)

You're forgetting the automatic "shades of grey" status attributed to all hot stars of romantic dramadies.

Well, that too.

Ooooh, I might actually be interested in sneaking a peak at Jane Espenson's blog.

Here you go (http://www.janeespenson.com/). I too have a soft spot for JE. I think it was "Rm w/a Vu" that did it. Or maybe that she was the only MEanie who didn't seem to buy into the hype.

Angela

10-06-2006, 05:02 PM

It may have been due to George thinking he was good enough for Meredith. Instead of being, you know, far, far too good for Meredith.

And the sad thing was, George didn't even really think he was good enough for Meredith. I thought he was more heartfelt "no one will love you more than me" was sweet but sort of sad. Especially sad when you consider McDrippy's current demeanor in regards to Meredith. Cocky doesn't begin to cover it.

Ah, I forgot that being supportive of a friend is a criminal offense. Obviously she should have mocked and ridiculed George. I get it now.

Oh, not mocked and ridiculed necessarily. She should have just reminded him how not good enough for Meredith he was, all the while pushing Mer/Der. You know, like Cristina does (according to some, this is why she and Meredith are bestest friends and George and Izzie fall somewhere far below).

Let me guess; she's supposed to be desperately in love with Alex and unable to see anyone else other than Alex?

Many of them seem to be all about the Addie/Alex these days, so I'm guessing that it was more that Izzie should just be background and back burner. You know, so she doesn't take up valuable Mer/Der face time.

(No, I am not going down this road again. I will not succumb to the bitter.)

This is why I have to stay away from TWoP. Because TWoP is ALL about the Mer/Der, and if you aren't you're either stupid or wrong.

With the disclaimer that I don't believe anyone deserves to be shot, I will say that Burke had some sense that something not good was going on, and could have avoided being shot simply by giving up gloating in front of the other surgeon and telling Webber his suspicions so Webber could find out what was going on. Then no one would have been out in the bay to be shot.

Honestly? I think this was just one of those weird conflagrations of events wherein it all comes together in the worst possible way. You know, one of those things that really only happens on tv. I don't blame anyone except the guy with the gun. Heck, you could say if he hadn't spent time arguing with Dr. Hahn he'd already have been in surgery. Or the helicopter pilot for letting him out at that exact time. I don't see how you can blame any of the main cast in this one. (And I know you weren't. I'm saying what I'd like to say to all the ones who want to blame Izzie.)

Except Vinnie, I guess. Is it Izzie's fault Vinnie got shot too?

Was Vinnie the guy with the gun? Didn't he shoot himself after he shot Burke? If not, I'm sure must be Izzie's fault. Heck, even if he is the guy who shot himself it's still probably Izzie's fault.

Yes, well... Hmm... All I've seen of last night's episode is the teaser, --> but I was fairly livid over the idea that the party line as espoused by Bailey is going to be Izzie did nothing wrong. There's GOoJF cards, and then there's plain old "WTF?". The idea Izzie did nothing wrong falls into the latter category. <--

Have you watched yet? I do not think what you fear is what's happening. In fact, I was highly encouraged by what DID happen. No one--not Bailey, not Webber, and especially not Izzie--is getting a GOoJF card.

Honestly, I too thought Heigl was just there for the pretty (not that GA lacks in the pretty), but I am far more impressed with her mad acting skillz now than when she was on Roswell. Which, come to that, is probably more an indictment of Roswell than Heigl. But Appleby is terrible in any context. Heigl owned last season's finale though.

I always was impressed with KH's acting chops on Roswell, but as you say it's not like it was hard to be a standout on that show. As for Appleby, nothingk could be as bad as her way of enunciatingk words. Except, perhaps, her robotic "acting". They didn't call her Lizbot for nothing.

Here you go (http://www.janeespenson.com/). I too have a soft spot for JE. I think it was "Rm w/a Vu" that did it. Or maybe that she was the only MEanie who didn't seem to buy into the hype.

Thankee kindly, sir! I will check it out posthaste. As for Espenson, I mostly just liked that she wrote good Cordy. There were whole seasons where I was hardpressed to find that.

SamIAm

10-09-2006, 06:12 AM

You know, like Cristina does (according to some, this is why she and Meredith are bestest friends and George and Izzie fall somewhere far below).

I've never really been able to nail Christina's view on Mer/Der, but I can't agree that she's cheerleading.

Many of them seem to be all about the Addie/Alex these days...

That was Eric Dane's name I saw in the opening credits, right after Sara Ramirez's name, right? Doesn't look good for A/A from where I'm sitting.

This is why I have to stay away from TWoP.

Well, after reading recaps, it's fairly important to leave TWoP. Most of the time, the snark for the sake of snark attitude burns.

I think this was just one of those weird conflagrations of events wherein it all comes together in the worst possible way.

Oh, sure. Definitely not anyone's fault, other than the shooter's.

Was Vinnie the guy with the gun?

No, the restaurant manager the shooter was after in the first place. I think his name was actually Pete? But the actor is also on Veronica Mars where he plays a character named Vinnie VanLowe.

Have you watched yet? I do not think what you fear is what's happening. In fact, I was highly encouraged by what DID happen. No one--not Bailey, not Webber, and especially not Izzie--is getting a GOoJF card.

Yeah, I saw it. I'll reserve judgement 'til something happens. Still, yes, Izzie did commit a crime. The problem being, so did George, Meredith, and Christina. But we've been here before. ;)

I was pretty happy with this episode; far better than last week's. Though, you know, maybe they ought to spend some time being doctors in between all the personal life stuff. But then it wouldn't be Grey's Anatomy, I suppose. Great ending with everyone checking into the same hotel. Liked seeing the trio drowning their sorrows in strawberry ice cream too. I'm a big fan of friendship moments.

As for Espenson, I mostly just liked that she wrote good Cordy.

Yeah, hence the "Rm w/a Vu" reference. She's pretty good overall though.

Angela

10-09-2006, 08:41 AM

I've never really been able to nail Christina's view on Mer/Der, but I can't agree that she's cheerleading.

Oh, neither can I. But then again, you and I aren't the ones with the...er...somewhat skewed view of life at Seattle Grace.

That was Eric Dane's name I saw in the opening credits, right after Sara Ramirez's name, right? Doesn't look good for A/A from where I'm sitting.

You have no idea how much right I hope you are.

Well, after reading recaps, it's fairly important to leave TWoP. Most of the time, the snark for the sake of snark attitude burns.

For the most part, I can handle the recaps. Recappers are not always pleasant, but they're not delusional. And to give TWoP its props, I discovered yesterday that the GA forum mods have closed down the anti-ship, the "unpopoular opinions", and the bitterness threads. Maybe they're finally trying to get a handle on things.

Yeah, I saw it. I'll reserve judgement 'til something happens. Still, yes, Izzie did commit a crime. The problem being, so did George, Meredith, and Christina. But we've been here before. ;)

Yes, yes we have. ;) I personally hope they don't go so far as to looking into criminal charges for everyone involved, especially not Izzie, just as I hope we've heard the last of Addie's malpractice suit (unless, of course, that were to serve as a nail in the cofffin of any A/A possibilities). But I fully admit that I'm not necessarily looking for realism in my tv viewing, so we may differ more than a bit there. :)

Liked seeing the trio drowning their sorrows in strawberry ice cream too. I'm a big fan of friendship moments.

Me too. I loved seeing them all back on the same bed. I loved seeing them connect again as a trio. They may not be the Trio (and Mer is certainly no Harry), but I love seeing them together.

Yeah, hence the "Rm w/a Vu" reference. She's pretty good overall though.

There were times when we were looking long and hard for good Cordy. I will definitely be checking her site out, and paying special attention to her ep of BSG.

SamIAm

10-12-2006, 10:07 AM

You have no idea how much right I hope you are.

I am right that Dane's name is in the credits right after SR's. What that may mean is up for debate. ;)

But seriously (to overuse a phrase), all the conventions for storytelling (Alex carrying Izzie out of Denny's room, accompanying she and George out of the hospital, Alex escorting Izzie home last week among others) point to Alex and Izzie. Like it or not, I guess.

For the most part, I can handle the recaps.

Yeah, the GA recaps are fine. Skewed towards characters I often have more issues with than others, and indulging a bit too often in "shut up, [character]", but fine.

OTOH, the latest Jacobian opus on Doctor Who weighs in at 27 pages. There is nothing worth 27 pages. And this is the second recap this season he's gone that far.

And to give TWoP its props, I discovered yesterday that the GA forum mods have closed down the anti-ship, the "unpopoular opinions", and the bitterness threads.

Yeah, they've shut them down everywhere. I can't say for certain, but I've heard it was because the House forums were getting -- explosive? -- in their bitterness/anti/unpopular threads.

But I fully admit that I'm not necessarily looking for realism in my tv viewing, so we may differ more than a bit there. :)

Well, no. I mean, there are certain expectations to be met based on the original premise, and GA meets them. I don't look for realism or whatever in GA necessarily. I can't say I like series wherein the characters are too far out there; one reason I've bailed from House, but the real problem tends to be when a series stops being one thing and becomes another for no discernable in-story reason. Like, oh, say, Angel. Then it's "man the lifeboats time".

They may not be the Trio (and Mer is certainly no Harry), but I love seeing them together.

There needs to be a name for them, like a scrub of surgeons or something less lame. But scrubs is taken, so not that.

tojoson

10-13-2006, 10:56 AM

now, what the hell is Izzie >>going to do with 8.7 million dollars

I bet she'll donate it to the hospital for a new wing or something dedicated to him

but if she does that, when she is eventually reinstated, people will always think she bought her way back into the program

oh, I know, she can give it to me, then come and be MY lover

now, Dr. Sloan is just an a**hole, he and Karev should get along just great,
I wonder how long before Bailey' puts him in his place, soon I hope<<

Angela

10-13-2006, 06:01 PM

But seriously (to overuse a phrase), all the conventions for storytelling (Alex carrying Izzie out of Denny's room, accompanying she and George out of the hospital, Alex escorting Izzie home last week among others) point to Alex and Izzie. Like it or not, I guess.

Seriously? Seriously!

I do like, actually. I was Alex/Izzie before there really was an Alex/Izzie, and even after Olivia I guess I just assumed they'd end up back together some day. And while I may have shed a few tears there towards the end, I never really thought the Izzie/Denny thing would go all that far. So I'm just going to cross my fingers and hope for the best re: A/I.

And you forgot to add that Alex was really the one who kept after Bailey about going to see Izzie. :grin:

OTOH, the latest Jacobian opus on Doctor Who weighs in at 27 pages. There is nothing worth 27 pages. And this is the second recap this season he's gone that far.

Even if I was a faithful viewer (which I'm not), that'd be more than I could take. OTOH, if it was a GA recap, I'd probably dig in and trudge my way through.

Yeah, they've shut them down everywhere. I can't say for certain, but I've heard it was because the House forums were getting -- explosive? -- in their bitterness/anti/unpopular threads.

The Lost bitterness thread was pretty bad too. I think those threads eventually turn into a contest to see who can be the nastiest.

Like, oh, say, Angel. Then it's "man the lifeboats time".

You can say that again. I no longer have the time or the emotional investment, but back in the day I could have been the Queen of the Bitterness Thread in the AtS forum. If there'd been one.

There needs to be a name for them, like a scrub of surgeons or something less lame. But scrubs is taken, so not that.

A dose of doctors? An igloo of interns? ;)

Spoiler space for last night

tojoson, I have to say I wasn't particularly pleased to see what was in that envelope. I hope Izzie does give it away, or invest it, or create a scholarshiop in Denny's name or something. I realize that most people wouldn't, and I understand that real people would probably buy a big house and a car and all that other stuff. This is one time where I sincerely hope that GA takes a decided parting of the ways with reality.

I don't care much for Sloan, but there has to be something there if he was both Addison and Derek's best friend. And if nothing else, I think he could be a decided jolt of much needed self-esteem for poor Addison. (Plus he keeps Addison on her toes, thereby ensuring that at least for now, no Addie/Alex. Heh.)

Callie!! I couldn't believe her! I've always liked her, but no matter what George did or didn't do, what Callie did just felt sleazy. Blech.

And McDrippy dumps Meredith dumps Finn. Boy, it's a good thing that wasn't telegraphed about 15 minutes into the episode. From the moment McDrippy put on his thoughtful face after talking to Webber, you knew exactly how that was going to shake down.

SamIAm

10-16-2006, 02:00 PM

So I'm just going to cross my fingers and hope for the best re: A/I.

Ah. Well... I may have seen something I hope I didn't see, but "I guarantee you will miss me"? I didn't like the sound of that.

And you forgot to add that Alex was really the one who kept after Bailey about going to see Izzie.

I was trying to be representative. That's why I didn't mention Alex dipping Izzie's pigtails in the inkwell from season one. ;)

I think those threads eventually turn into a contest to see who can be the nastiest.

As those things will. Human nature being what it is, as soon as you say, 'A is not good', I have to say, 'oh, yeah, well, B is even worse', then it's on. That said, we did the bitterness/unpopular opinion bit a couple of times in alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer and alt.tv.angel, and they stayed fairly polite. Talk about worlds turning upside down; politeness on usenet?

A dose of doctors? An igloo of interns?

A suture of surgeons? An autoclave of attendings?

I hope Izzie does give it away, or invest it, or create a scholarshiop in Denny's name or something.

I thought it was pretty neat. And if Izzie doesn't take at least some of it to secure her won future, then I think she'd be dishonoring the reason Denny left it all to her in the first place.

I don't care much for Sloan, but there has to be something there if he was both Addison and Derek's best friend.

Well, I think he's a putz as a doctor, but he's probably the least high-school-ish adult on the show. (Recall Callie's speech to Finn.) Up there with Bailey and Webber.

And if nothing else, I think he could be a decided jolt of much needed self-esteem for poor Addison.

Am I wrong for laughing when he smacked Alex down? 'Cause I liked that part too. But dude, he dissed Bailey. For that alone he proves he is not all there.

(Plus he keeps Addison on her toes, thereby ensuring that at least for now, no Addie/Alex. Heh.)

Now I hope you're right.

I've always liked her, but no matter what George did or didn't do, what Callie did just felt sleazy.

Shades of Mere and the inappropriate men. Apparently that's what women do in Shonda's world when their McGuy McBails on them.

From the moment McDrippy put on his thoughtful face after talking to Webber, you knew exactly how that was going to shake down.

Yeah. But did we all not know this was coming since the day Mer/Der took the dog to the vet? And will there be any surprise come the final episode when Mer and Der ride off into the sunset? (And the camera pulls back to reveal George staring at a snowglobe with the Seattle skyline inside?)

Angela

10-16-2006, 10:25 PM

Ah. Well... I may have seen something I hope I didn't see, but "I guarantee you will miss me"? I didn't like the sound of that.

I almost get a brother/sister vibe from Alex/Addie. And that's what that was. It was totally brother/sister. Tra-la-la-laaaaa...I can't hear you!

That said, we did the bitterness/unpopular opinion bit a couple of times in alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer and alt.tv.angel, and they stayed fairly polite. Talk about worlds turning upside down; politeness on usenet?

Aaaah, a.t.a. Those were the days. Sure, it was rough, getting through posts by people whose heads were already several sizes too big before they had characters named after them. But it was still fun. Heh.

A suture of surgeons? An autoclave of attendings?

A pharmacy of physicians? A reflux of residents?

I thought it was pretty neat. And if Izzie doesn't take at least some of it to secure her won future, then I think she'd be dishonoring the reason Denny left it all to her in the first place.

Really, so long as Izzie doesn't in any way, shape, or form buy her way back into the program, I think I'll be content. She seems to have enough to live on.

Speaking of, what kind of salary do interns make anyway? Residents? Attendings?

Well, I think he's a putz as a doctor, but he's probably the least high-school-ish adult on the show. (Recall Callie's speech to Finn.) Up there with Bailey and Webber.

Certainly the least high-schoolish appearance. Mrrrowww.

Oh, wait. We were having a discussion here... ;)

I do think he slipped up a bit when he hopped off that barstool and followed Callie out the door. He's got reason to hope there may be a spark with Addison, and throwing it away on a one night stand is short-sighted, to say the least.

Am I wrong for laughing when he smacked Alex down? 'Cause I liked that part too. But dude, he dissed Bailey. For that alone he proves he is not all there.

He just has not been properly exposed to the glory that is Bailey. Give him time. They all come to know it in the end.

Now I hope you're right.

Aren't I always?

Don't answer that question. ;)

Shades of Mere and the inappropriate men. Apparently that's what women do in Shonda's world when their McGuy McBails on them.

But George didn't really bail on Callie. If Izzie were really George's sister and not just his roomie and her fiance had died just a few days ago, would she really have begrudged him going to be with her? I'd like to think she wouldn't. I think this is Callie being a bit unreasonable, just as Adele was being unreasonable when she expected Webber to leave the hospital with a possible case of plague on the premises.

Yeah. But did we all not know this was coming since the day Mer/Der took the dog to the vet? And will there be any surprise come the final episode when Mer and Der ride off into the sunset? (And the camera pulls back to reveal George staring at a snowglobe with the Seattle skyline inside?)

While we haven't been given any reason to believe any differently, I have watched another show where the writer veered away from giving the title character the big happy ending in order to make it *right*. So it can happen. Of course, if things keep going as they're going, I may well end up thinking Mer and McDrippy deserve each other, in which case I'll wish them Godspeed as they ride off into the sunset.

But no George gazing into a snowglobe, please. Callie doesn't seem to be the one, but there's someone out there for him. And if not, resounding success, great wealth, and lots of hot babes aren't a bad way for a surgeon to go either.

Morrigan

10-17-2006, 11:48 AM

Of course, if things keep going as they're going, I may well end up thinking Mer and McDrippy deserve each other, in which case I'll wish them Godspeed as they ride off into the sunset.
I can't think of two people who are move deserving of each other and, I don't mean that in a nice way.

But no George gazing into a snowglobe, please.
Ah, flashbacks to St. Elsewhere

Callie doesn't seem to be the one, but there's someone out there for him. And if not, resounding success, great wealth, and lots of hot babes aren't a bad way for a surgeon to go either.
Pity, I really like Callie. It's funny because I always thought George and Izzy would get together at some point. Anyway, I thought I heard last year that Alex was leaving. Or is that just an ugly rumor?

SamIAm

10-17-2006, 01:18 PM

It was totally brother/sister. Tra-la-la-laaaaa...I can't hear you!

You have my full support in this selective deafness.

Aaaah, a.t.a. Those were the days.

In many ways, the most fun I've had in front of a computer. In many other ways, not.

Sure, it was rough, getting through posts by people whose heads were already several sizes too big before they had characters named after them.

I actually didn't think she could be a bigger prat, then I ran into the "elder statesman" wank. Laugh? I thought I'd die. ;) Of course, after the Time of the Great Leaving of ATA, she was replaced with a Spike apologist who made the "elder statesman" look fairly normal. Well, not normal. Less freakish, anyway.

A pharmacy of physicians? A reflux of residents?

This is a long road we could go down, at least until we get to 'spastic colon of specialists'.

Really, so long as Izzie doesn't in any way, shape, or form buy her way back into the program...

Oh, well, I never expected her to use the money to buy her way back in. (How did you envision that happening?) The only thing I could see it being involved in getting Izzie back is if the intern slot she held had been given away, and there was no need of her because...

Speaking of, what kind of salary do interns make anyway?

Zilch. Less even. There is usually a minimal amount in a hospital's budget for interns, and the amount they are paid generally comes out to being something just at or below the minimum required to provide basic necessities. (So Callie living in an abandoned storeroom at the hospital doesn't seem as freakish if she'd started that as an intern and just never stopped.) But they don't have to be paid at all, if there are more interns than the budget allows for. Carter actually worked one year without salary for that reason. Of course, then Grandma Carter cut off financial support, so it really sucked to be Carter. Anyway, if Izzie has the $8.7 million, she could work without salary if it came to that.

Residents? Attendings?

Depends. Resident and attending surgeons make more than, say, resident and attending neo-natal specialists. Residents usually get up there near to six figures as they gain experience and skills. But, if I recall correctly, both McDrippy and Burke's salaries have been mentioned as being something in excess of $2 million per year. Addison's too, if I'm not totally mistaken. Makes me wonder what Webber makes. It also depends on the hospital and location and pretty much all the other factors us normal people's salaries depends on.

Certainly the least high-schoolish appearance. Mrrrowww.

Okay, do I slobber over Izzie? Well, in public, anyway? ;)

He's got reason to hope there may be a spark with Addison, and throwing it away on a one night stand is short-sighted, to say the least.

Well, yeah, he is that. But I guess he's just part of Shonda's inappropiate sexual partner tapestry. (I was going to say something else, but there's enough McVet/McDrippy slash talk after last week's opening scene. :) )

But George didn't really bail on Callie. If Izzie were really George's sister and not just his roomie and her fiance had died just a few days ago, would she really have begrudged him going to be with her?

Well, no, he didn't bail from our POV, but from Callie's? I agree it is on the unreasonable side, and I think George did the right thing, but I also can see where Callie'd think she was being pushed off to the side for someone else. And I don't think Callie likes Izzie much, right? Didn't she say something to George about not getting why Izzie was all that?

...just as Adele was being unreasonable when she expected Webber to leave the hospital with a possible case of plague on the premises.

I do think Webber owes Adele a lot, and I don't think it's unreasonable for her to call him on it, but the potential plague thing was a really bad thing to happen at a really bad time. I can't blame Webber for responding to it, and I can't blame Adele for what she's feeling either. But Adele mostly just wanted him to say he would hand in his retirement letter now. I don't think she thought he was going to walk out the door with her. That's what I got when Webber told her he needed more time to decide, and Adele said she had no more time to give him.

...I have watched another show where the writer veered away from giving the title character the big happy ending in order to make it *right*. So it can happen.

Oh, sure, it happens. I just don't think Mere is going to wake up one day and see the wonder that is, say, George, for instance. Or the return of McVet. Though she might run off into the shower with Mark. That wouldn't surprise me as much.

Of course, if things keep going as they're going, I may well end up thinking Mer and McDrippy deserve each other, in which case I'll wish them Godspeed as they ride off into the sunset.

That's kind of the problem: they already pretty much deserve each other. At least Mere has the good sense to know it's a bad idea. Don't know what good it is though, if she doesn't act on the good sense.

But no George gazing into a snowglobe, please.

Ah, no, I was just teasing. I'm sure George will find his wun twue wub. Morrigan's suggestion of Izzie would be okay, and I'm a fan of the "friends then lovers" road to wun twue wub-ness, but I think I'd like the friendship between Izzie and George to stay that way.

Angela

10-17-2006, 11:13 PM

I can't think of two people who are move deserving of each other and, I don't mean that in a nice way.

I go up and down with Meredith. Sometimes I can't stand her, and sometimes I feel more sympathetic toward her. Right now I'm in a cautiously sympathetic mood, which is a dramatic improvement after last season's finale. Of course, that finale also drove the final nail in the coffin of any hope whatsoever I'd end up liking McDrippy. So really, in terms of Meredith, it's not all bad.

Pity, I really like Callie. It's funny because I always thought George and Izzy would get together at some point. Anyway, I thought I heard last year that Alex was leaving. Or is that just an ugly rumor?

I've tried, really I have, but I just cannot for the life of me see George and Izzie together. She's always treated him like a little brother, and I guess that's the way I'll always see them. As for Alex, last year we knew that one of the interns was leaving the program, and a lot of people thought it would be Alex. Not only does he "lift out easy" (™Rachel), he has long expressed the desire to go into plastics. As it turned out, it was actually Izzie.

I actually didn't think she could be a bigger prat, then I ran into the "elder statesman" wank. Laugh? I thought I'd die. ;) Of course, after the Time of the Great Leaving of ATA, she was replaced with a Spike apologist who made the "elder statesman" look fairly normal. Well, not normal. Less freakish, anyway.

Ahhhh, those truly were the days. Elder Stateswoman may be one of my favorite all-time wanks. I think I might have been the one who hooked you up with that; I had it saved on my last computer for a long time. Wonder how deep the FW archives go...

You may have to refresh my memory re: the apologist. Nothing's ringing a bell here.

This is a long road we could go down, at least until we get to 'spastic colon of specialists'.

Oh, that road just ended, because truly nothing could top 'spastic colon'. I think that one should stick. Heh.

Oh, well, I never expected her to use the money to buy her way back in. (How did you envision that happening?)

The way I've seen it described is something along the lines of Izzie offering to furnish a new wing or somesuch so long as she gets her spot back. Some 'fans' (the vaguely quackish ones I've mentioned before) have already posited that promo stills released for this ep show Izzie either griping at or haranguing Webber. FWIW, the pictures show Izzie and Webber talking to each other outside the hospital. And...well, that's pretty much it.

So...the interns are the poverty class, Callie and Bailey are probably middle to upper middle, and Burke/Addie/McDrippy are way up there. I suppose that makes sense. But, since you seem to be in the know, I have another question. And this is going to sound really stupid, but...what exactly do the designations "resident" and "attending" mean? Are those titles only used in teaching hospitals? Do they refer to years of experience? If Burke/Addie/McDrippy are making *that* much money, then surely anywhere else they'd just be experts in their field but not titled "attendings", right?

In light of my recent "Mrroww", I give you permission for a small, tasteful display of devotion to the visual form. ;)

[quote=SamIAm](I was going to say something else, but there's enough McVet/McDrippy slash talk after last week's opening scene. :) )

ACK! Perish the thought!! I don't even think Meredith deserves McDrippy right now! McVet SURE doesn't!!

And I don't think Callie likes Izzie much, right? Didn't she say something to George about not getting why Izzie was all that?

She's said it more than once about both Meredith and Izzie. She basically called them Mean Girls, and asked George why he put up with them. And that, IIRC, was when he tried to explain that they were his family. She seemed to understand at the time, but I suspect she still has issues. (And in remembering that, I also remembered that she walked in on them in the bathroom, used it, and then left without washing their hands....and then accused them of being Mean Girls when they didn't accept this without a qualm. Something I myself could not have done.)

SamIAm

10-18-2006, 04:06 PM

Elder Stateswoman may be one of my favorite all-time wanks.

I think the msscribe thing is mine, even though it wasn't technically a wank, I guess. Especially now that the subject seems to be sticking her head out the window to see if it's safe to come out and play.

Wonder how deep the FW archives go...

Out of curiosity one rainy day, I checked; back into 2003 at least. It was interesting to see the water fowl made it onto F_W a couple of times. ;)

You may have to refresh my memory re: the apologist. Nothing's ringing a bell here.

Oh, um, her name was ClaireSomething, as I recall. Platy knew her of old from another forum. She was one of those who felt that if you disagreed with her, it was because you just weren't insightful enough to appreciate the true nuances of a work. Or some such nonsense.

The way I've seen it described is something along the lines of Izzie offering to furnish a new wing or somesuch so long as she gets her spot back.

Oh. Well, yeah, that does sound dumb. I'd hate that too, but like I said, it never occurred to me that it might happen.

But, since you seem to be in the know...

Fourth-hand at best; do not make a radical career change based on my info. ;)

...what exactly do the designations "resident" and "attending" mean?

They are basically career status identifiers, if you will. (Like apprentice, journeyman, and master in a trade career. As a side note, it's becoming more and more common for the 'intern' label to fold into year one of the residence program, so that designation is almost anachronistic. But I digress.) A resident is a licensed MD working towards board certification in either general medicine or in a specialty track. How long it takes it pretty much up to the resident, of course, even if some programs are less demanding than others. An attending is an MD who has completed his/her residency and is fully board certified. The attending is considered the patient's primary care provider regardless of which resident/interns may actually do the real doctoring.

She's said it more than once about both Meredith and Izzie.

Yeah, but I thought they had a particular conversation where George brought up Mere and Izzie, and Callie said something like, 'I get it. Well, I don't get Izzie, but I get Meredith.' Or something like that. I mean, it doesn't make her less unreasonable or anything; I was just wondering.

...and then accused them of being Mean Girls when they didn't accept this without a qualm. Something I myself could not have done.)

I thought Callie was mad 'cause they claimed she didn't wash her hands. For a doctor, that's more than 'Ew, you're gross!' and goes right to 'A doctor who doesn't maintain basic standards of hygiene? What other areas of her chosen profession is she suspect in?' So sure, even though the peeing thing was a bit much, (Though really, Izzie and Meredith walking in on George in the shower? Do they have room to cast stones re:boundry issues?), it wasn't really that the Mean Girls were being mean about.

Angela

10-19-2006, 12:57 AM

I think the msscribe thing is mine, even though it wasn't technically a wank, I guess. Especially now that the subject seems to be sticking her head out the window to see if it's safe to come out and play.

Oh, that one was fun too! Only I don't think she's so much sticking her head out as thrusting it out--and whacking passers by with a big "it wasn't really my fault" stick to boot. But the Elder Stateswoman was fun on a different level, because I "knew" her (and disliked her) long before it occurred. Plus I made some great new friends during that wank over our shared dislike.

Out of curiosity one rainy day, I checked; back into 2003 at least. It was interesting to see the water fowl made it onto F_W a couple of times. ;)

Several of those were courtesy of two of my aforementioned newfound friends. Isn't it amazing how some can inspire broad dislike over all kinds of populations of fandom? Hee!

Oh, um, her name was ClaireSomething, as I recall. Platy knew her of old from another forum. She was one of those who felt that if you disagreed with her, it was because you just weren't insightful enough to appreciate the true nuances of a work. Or some such nonsense.

Totally don't remember her, but it sounds like that might not be a bad thing...

Fourth-hand at best; do not make a radical career change based on my info. ;)

Radical career change? I don't think the words "radical" and anything have ever been associated with me. At least, not in front of my face. But rest easy--you have settled a matter of minor curiosity for me, but that's about as far as it goes. ;)

The attending is considered the patient's primary care provider regardless of which resident/interns may actually do the real doctoring.

That's what I thought, mostly. So these designations would really only be used at a teaching hospital, right? Derek and Burke are attendings while they're at Seattle Grace, but if they went to a hospital somewhere else that wasn't a teaching hospital, they'd just be surgeons, right?

Yeah, but I thought they had a particular conversation where George brought up Mere and Izzie, and Callie said something like, 'I get it. Well, I don't get Izzie, but I get Meredith.' Or something like that. I mean, it doesn't make her less unreasonable or anything; I was just wondering.

I have a vague recollection of such a conversation, but I was thinking that was in reference to the girls being mean to her. I can't remember the exact context of the confab, but I'm going to try and track it down.

I thought Callie was mad 'cause they claimed she didn't wash her hands. For a doctor, that's more than 'Ew, you're gross!' and goes right to 'A doctor who doesn't maintain basic standards of hygiene? What other areas of her chosen profession is she suspect in?' So sure, even though the peeing thing was a bit much, (Though really, Izzie and Meredith walking in on George in the shower? Do they have room to cast stones re:boundry issues?), it wasn't really that the Mean Girls were being mean about.

The washing the hands thing was the reason she gave for being mad, but I think it went a bit deeper. Meredith's and Izzie's reactions were sort of high school, IMO. They whispered behind her back and made weird motions and such, sort of making fun of her all day. And I get how rude that was. But at the same time, I thought Callie was all kinds of unreasonable. First for walking in, because...eww. You just don't do that. Not unless and until you've lived with someone and are very close to them, and Meredith and Izzie barely knew her at that point. That was rude, and it was weird. Plus she was naked, which is all kinds of uncomfortable with strangers. Or is for most people. And then she walked out without washing her hands. I also get that she eventually washed them downstairs, but still....EWWW. The girls had no way of knowing that. She walked in, she was NAKED, she left without washing her hands. She had to do a lot of walking to get down there. Did she touch anything? If nothing else, she touched the doorknob going out the bathroom.

(And here's where I should probably explain that I have doorknob issues of my own, and bathroom doorknob issues way beyond that. I teach 10-year-olds, and I swear I wasn't germaphobic before I started teaching, but if you knew the things I've seen...)

Anyway, my point in saying all that--and there was one, I promise--was that then, like now, I think Callie's expectations are unreasonable. Is George blameless? Absolutely not. I think if he did a better job of explaining himself and his feelings, both for Callie and the girls, then this whole situation might could be avoided. We know he can; IIRC, he himself explained why the girls walking in on him in the shower was a no-no. But Callie doesn't have a lot of high ground, either. Especially not now. Ugh. I'm still a bit queasy about that last scene.

SamIAm

10-19-2006, 03:44 PM

Oh, that one was fun too!

Unqualified winner of best documentation also.

But the Elder Stateswoman was fun on a different level, because I "knew" her (and disliked her) long before it occurred.

True that.

Several of those were courtesy of two of my aforementioned newfound friends.

Yeah? Neat. It is nice when all of fandom bands together to marvel at the meltdown of the fringe groups.

Totally don't remember her, but it sounds like that might not be a bad thing...

Well, she mostly started haunting ata after it was announced that Spike would be ruining that series as thoroughly as he had BtVS. It was her personal mission to make sure everyone knew what a coup getting Spike was. ;)

Radical career change? I don't think the words "radical" and anything have ever been associated with me.

Radical is one of those subjective things. One person's radical is another's 'yeah, I do that three times before breakfast.'

So these designations would really only be used at a teaching hospital, right?

Oh, no. It's a professional designation. Technically residents don't need to be taught as such. They're supposed to pursue their certification on their own. And an Attending is an Attending wherever he/she works.

I can't remember the exact context of the confab, but I'm going to try and track it down.

Okay, but don't do it on my account. I swear it was after the Mean Girls thing but before George and Meredith made up. But my brain holds information like a sieve holds water, so...

And here's where I should probably explain that I have doorknob issues of my own, and bathroom doorknob issues way beyond that.

Okay, I give. Clearly this event rang a more strident chord with you than with me.

Anyway, my point in saying all that--and there was one, I promise--was that then, like now, I think Callie's expectations are unreasonable. Is George blameless? Absolutely not.

Oh, sure. I was never trying to excuse Callie's reaction, just find the cause(s) for it. And no, George, whom I like on a level just slightly below Bailey, ('cause Bailey uber alles), does often let his passive/aggressive nature run free too often and too long, so sure, enough blame to go around.

Angela

10-19-2006, 09:15 PM

Unqualified winner of best documentation also.

Best part: reaction from all those proven to be either wrong or completely fooled by their 'friend'. "Wow, whoever put this together needs to get a life!" Because fraud perpetrated on that level is just so minor, really. And they would have accepted less than complete documentation as fact, I'm sure.

Well, she mostly started haunting ata after it was announced that Spike would be ruining that series as thoroughly as he had BtVS. It was her personal mission to make sure everyone knew what a coup getting Spike was. ;)

Ahhh. Mystery solved, and for once it wasn't my sieve-like memory. I had given up on both AtS and ata loooong before that point.

Oh, no. It's a professional designation. Technically residents don't need to be taught as such. They're supposed to pursue their certification on their own. And an Attending is an Attending wherever he/she works.

So....is attending the top level in the field you can get? Because I thought McDreamy, Addison, and McSteamy were all supposed to be THE tops in their fields, but I had thought the designations all had...oh, I thought they all had someone higher up.

You know, I typed up a bunch more questions about this because I really am quite curious, but then I realized I need to quit thinking about it. Or find a wiki. It really isn't your personal responsibility to explain the American medical system to me. :)

Okay, I give. Clearly this event rang a more strident chord with you than with me.

Issues. It's either a girl thing or it's just me. Probably the latter.

Oh, sure. I was never trying to excuse Callie's reaction, just find the cause(s) for it. And no, George, whom I like on a level just slightly below Bailey, ('cause Bailey uber alles), does often let his passive/aggressive nature run free too often and too long, so sure, enough blame to go around.

You know, I really hadn't thought of George in those terms, but that really hits the nail on the head. On the one hand, he won't tell Callie he's not ready to live together, but he has no problem telling Meredith. And he was pretty snippy about it. And he waits and waits and lets it all build up until finally it just sort of bursts out.

But then he tells Callie he misses her, and really, who wouldn't have been totally won over by the way he said that?

tojoson

10-19-2006, 10:05 PM

from Wikipedia

# Resident, holder of a medical residency, a physician or other medical professional in a United States hospital, who after completing a specified level of schooling and an internship receives specialized clinical training.

An attending physician is a physician that has completed residency and practices medicine in a clinic or hospital, often focusing on the specialty learned during residency. An attending physician can also supervise residents and medical students.

Legally, attending physicians have final responsibility for patient care, even when many of the minute-to-minute decisions are being made by subordinates (nurse practitioners, physician assistants, resident physicians, and medical students).

The term attending physician or attending also refers to the formal relationship of a hospitalized patient and their primary doctor, as opposed to ancillary physicians assisting the primary doctor, referred to as consultants

SamIAm

10-23-2006, 11:11 AM

Best part: reaction from all those proven to be either wrong or completely fooled by their 'friend'.

Well, I suspect, without verifiable evidence and thus without basis for argument, that many of her "friends" knew exactly what was going on. And even if I were inclined to be charitable and assume they didn't know about the sock puppets, they certainly knew about her Charitygate bat-shittery. That right there should have had her isolated and alone, related to her and the BNF's anyway.

I had given up on both AtS and ata loooong before that point.

Yeah, by the time she showed up, about all I was doing was bantering back and forth with Stephen about the sad state of affairs. By the time the fifth season started, I was gone too.

So....is attending the top level in the field you can get?

Well, from there it's all about the rep you can acquire. For instance, part of the conceit of the series is McDrippy, Burke, and Addison are all well-known and highly accomplished members of their profession. As was Mere's mother, back in the day. Once you get there, naturally you become a commodity on your own, and those $2 million salaries are yours for the commanding.

It really isn't your personal responsibility to explain the American medical system to me. :)

No, but it's fun. 'I'm not a career counselor in real life, but I play one on the internets.' ;)

You know, I really hadn't thought of George in those terms, but that really hits the nail on the head.

Yeah, well, I do know the way of the passive-aggressive. Personally, I don't think it's as horrible a way to be as the rep hints; a little p-a can defuse an ugly situation, whereas full-on aggressive will always cause more trouble and complete passive makes on a doormat. But if there's a situation you truly can't live with, it's better it come out at a time of one's choosing rather than letting it explode in the worst possible way, as it tends to do.

But then he tells Callie he misses her, and really, who wouldn't have been totally won over by the way he said that?

Callie, apparently.

Angela

10-24-2006, 01:04 AM

Thanks, tojo, for the wiki help. What did we all do before Google and wikipedia?

Well, I suspect, without verifiable evidence and thus without basis for argument, that many of her "friends" knew exactly what was going on. And even if I were inclined to be charitable and assume they didn't know about the sock puppets, they certainly knew about her Charitygate bat-shittery. That right there should have had her isolated and alone, related to her and the BNF's anyway.

I don't know that they did all know. Or at least, admitted it to themselves. I think it was muuuch easier for them to sit around and congratulate themselves (smugly, I'm sure) on their mutual states of enlightenment all the while deriding the vicious rightwingers and their nasty flames of stalker-iness. Especially when they could (and did) blame many of the nastiest of the nasties on their handy-dandy target, GT. By the time they couldn't deny the crazy anymore, it was too late to salvage a bit of their own credibility. So they either ignored (see Cassie et al.) or bounced around trying to defend and justify (see Heidi).
What'll be interesting to me is how far back in they'll let msscribe now that she's floating around again.

But I digress...

Yeah, by the time she showed up, about all I was doing was bantering back and forth with Stephen about the sad state of affairs. By the time the fifth season started, I was gone too.

Stephen-and-Terry-banter was all I had to look forward to by the end of my run iwth AtS. And it seemed like you guys were even slowing down. Most of the old crowd gone, and IIRC the place was overrun with Spikefen. Is it even still around anymore? Can you go back and read any of the old stuff?

But again I digress...

Well, from there it's all about the rep you can acquire. For instance, part of the conceit of the series is McDrippy, Burke, and Addison are all well-known and highly accomplished members of their profession. As was Mere's mother, back in the day. Once you get there, naturally you become a commodity on your own, and those $2 million salaries are yours for the commanding.

So if I was in the hospital right now, would the doctor in charge of my case from the hospital be considered an attending? My local hospital is not a teaching hospital, and so far as I know all the doctors therein are fully accredited. And what if it's my own GP who sees me in the hospital? Would he be an attending?

Yeah, well, I do know the way of the passive-aggressive. Personally, I don't think it's as horrible a way to be as the rep hints; a little p-a can defuse an ugly situation, whereas full-on aggressive will always cause more trouble and complete passive makes on a doormat. But if there's a situation you truly can't live with, it's better it come out at a time of one's choosing rather than letting it explode in the worst possible way, as it tends to do.

Having spent considerable time on the other side of the passive-aggressive, I do think it's a pretty rotten way to operate. There are ways to behave that involve neither passive nor aggressive. Simple conversation, saying what you think, or, in many cases, just getting over it. George, for example, could have either simply told Callie how he felt in a kinder way. "Callie, I don't think we're ready for this. It's a big step, and I want us to stop and enjoy what we've got right now." Or option B, just frickin' get over it, or at least don't act like a preschooler. I love George, truly I do, but his emotional immaturity has got to be wearing on a person.

But I forgot, it's totally Callie I'm mad at right now. Never mind! ;)

Callie, apparently.

Au contraire, mon frère. Judging by the softening of her features and the small smile she sent his way, Callie was most definitely moved by the "I miss you". It was his bailing on her invitation to learn more about her "secrets" that caused her to dump his behind. Not that it seems to have done much good. McSteamy is defniitely not working out. I'm actually interested to see where they go with this, because Callie certainly seems done. George, otoh, may rise to the occasion to win back his lady love. Personally, my money's on George.

SamIAm

10-24-2006, 09:27 AM

I don't know that they did all know. Or at least, admitted it to themselves.

Nor do I, but some of them... Well, I find it very hard to believe there was darkness all around.

But I digress...

As do I, especially since it's not ST's problem.

And it seemed like you guys were even slowing down.

Yeah, well, even we couldn't keep beating that dead horse, and the people scrambling to explain the brilliance we were all missing weren't that interesting. Or that credible.

Can you go back and read any of the old stuff?

Through the miracle of Google Groups, you can go back in history and read all the classics.

...And what if it's my own GP who sees me in the hospital? Would he be an attending?

Depends on your GP's contract with the hospital. Some outside doctors have full privileges, others just admission or some other limitation. For the rest, House is probably a good illustration of how it works. House himself almost never sees patients on his own, but he is always identified as the patient's physician, even if the Cottages do all the work. So as to who is considered your primary physician while in a hospital, it's the service's attending physician assigned to your case, whether you meet the person or not, and it may or may not be your GP.

There are ways to behave that involve neither passive nor aggressive.

Sure.

It was his bailing on her invitation to learn more about her "secrets" that caused her to dump his behind.

But still, 'I miss you' didn't fix all. Although the writer seems to have been trying to say the reason Callie dumped George is Callie then wouldn't have to feel guilty about Mark. Which I didn't get, but okay.

McSteamy is definitely not working out.

On the plus side, it's looking bleak for the Addison/Alex crowd again, so yay there.

Personally, my money's on George.

Well, maybe. I'm not sure he really wants Callie though.

Angela

10-24-2006, 06:16 PM

As do I, especially since it's not ST's problem.

And there I guess we should probably leave it, since I don't want Penny to have to get out the big stick. Then again, it's been a while since the big stick has put in an appearance. I kind of miss the old boy.

Yeah, well, even we couldn't keep beating that dead horse, and the people scrambling to explain the brilliance we were all missing weren't that interesting. Or that credible.

Did the a.t.a. nonviewers get the same kind of heated accusations and blame for the show's low ratings as we sometimes got?

Through the miracle of Google Groups, you can go back in history and read all the classics.

I am so going to do that one of these days. Within the last month, I've gone back and read all my TWoP posts and quite a few of them here. All I need is a.t.a. and LJ to complete my trip down memory lane. Too bad the ASSBoard doesn't have the same kind of archival capability.

So as to who is considered your primary physician while in a hospital, it's the service's attending physician assigned to your case, whether you meet the person or not, and it may or may not be your GP.

You know, I think I may finally have a handle on this. In my case, it would be my GP because he does have full privileges at the local hospital. Yay! (Dude, I've been wondering for well over two years now! Thank you! Seriously! ;) )

Although the writer seems to have been trying to say the reason Callie dumped George is Callie then wouldn't have to feel guilty about Mark. Which I didn't get, but okay.

Wha-huh? So the dumpage was Callie's GOoJF card? Or was supposed to be, I guess, since it sure didn't work for me. When you're as deeply involved as Callie and George have clearly been for some time, a one-liner and a hasty exit do not an official break-up make. See Ross and Rachel, circa 1997.

On the plus side, it's looking bleak for the Addison/Alex crowd again, so yay there.

BIG yay there. In addition to the fact that I see no romantic chemistry and, in fact, think they look completely physically unmatched, my level of suspension of disbelief can only be stretched so thin. Having three out of four (current) interns involved with attendings would stretch it well past the point of no return. (If I think about it two long, having two out of four does the same. I try not to think about it too much.)

Well, maybe. I'm not sure he really wants Callie though.

Say it ain't so....you think he's still pining after Meh?

SamIAm

10-25-2006, 08:34 AM

Did the a.t.a. nonviewers get the same kind of heated accusations and blame for the show's low ratings as we sometimes got?

No, cancellation was all because the people at the WB had no taste and/or could not recognize TEH BRILIANZE! that was Angel. I used to get 'so why do you watch it?' on occasion, which is sort of a valid point, except how would you know it was once brilliant but now kinda sucks if you never watched it? Also, who can resist rubbernecking a train wreck? No one, that's who.

I am so going to do that one of these days.

I've done it before. It's usually fun, but occasionally I run across something I wish I'd have not bothered posting. Ah well.

Too bad the ASSBoard doesn't have the same kind of archival capability.

Heh. I haven't that forum in a long time. Are they still in business?

(Dude, I've been wondering for well over two years now! Thank you! Seriously! ;) )

Glad I could help. ;)

Wha-huh?

Actually, upon further read, no, I guess not. George was supposed to know Callie broke up with him once and for all before she slept with Mark. My bad. But then I'm left wondering why Callie was supposedly feeling guilty about sleeping with Mark. I mean, okay, there are lots of reasons why it was squicky, but if she's unattached and he's unattached, there's nothing wrong (as such) about it.

Having three out of four (current) interns involved with attendings would stretch it well past the point of no return. (If I think about it two long, having two out of four does the same. I try not to think about it too much.)

Well, GA is unabashedly soapy, but a good soap needs to know its limits. Hopefully GA will remain a good soap.

Say it ain't so....you think he's still pining after Meh?

Not Mere exactly. I hope. But someone more Mere-ish than Callie. Or maybe he's just hiding his attraction really well. Or maybe I'm just misreading the whole thing and they do intend for George to get back together with Callie.

Angela

10-26-2006, 07:48 AM

No, cancellation was all because the people at the WB had no taste and/or could not recognize TEH BRILIANZE! that was Angel. I used to get 'so why do you watch it?' on occasion, which is sort of a valid point, except how would you know it was once brilliant but now kinda sucks if you never watched it? Also, who can resist rubbernecking a train wreck? No one, that's who.

Well at least it wasn't all your fault. And as to, "So why do you watch?"....while I didn't, after a certain point, as far as I was concerned I earned the right to watch and complain by watching (and loving) the several years before a lot of the johnny-come-latelies showed up. And no, I'm not trying to say that old time fans are better in any way. But it is a bit irksome to get the "recanize TEH BRLIANZE" speech from someone who's had five or six years less experience in the trenches than you.

Heh. I haven't that forum in a long time. Are they still in business?

You know, I honestly couldn't tell you. I meant to check that out last night and didn't have the time. Right now, Saturday's looking good.

Actually, upon further read, no, I guess not. George was supposed to know Callie broke up with him once and for all before she slept with Mark. My bad. But then I'm left wondering why Callie was supposedly feeling guilty about sleeping with Mark. I mean, okay, there are lots of reasons why it was squicky, but if she's unattached and he's unattached, there's nothing wrong (as such) about it.

But that's what I was trying to say before--there's no way George could have known Callie had broken up with him once and for all. They'd had some problems along these lines in the past, but they'd always worked them out. And not to repeat myself, but a one-liner and a hasty retreat do not a break-up make. And that's all Callie did--she said something about 'you don't have to worry about me anymore' and beat it. That's not a break-up. A break-up is, "George, I'm sorry, but this isn't working out anymore" followed by mutual regrets and both parties acknowledging. Or, you know, a big hairy screaming match. But not what Callie did. That was not a break-up, she knew it wasn't a break-up, George had no idea it was supposed to be a break-up. And THAT'S why Callie knows she has to tell George.

Then there'll be a real break-up.

ot Mere exactly. I hope. But someone more Mere-ish than Callie. Or maybe he's just hiding his attraction really well. Or maybe I'm just misreading the whole thing and they do intend for George to get back together with Callie.

By more Mere-like, do you mean physically or emotionally? Either way, you're probably right, and it does seem like they've made effort this year to give Callie a storyline other than "George's girlfriend". But I personally think George/Callie are not the endstory for either one of them.

SamIAm

10-27-2006, 12:03 PM

Well at least it wasn't all your fault.

True, but then, it's kind of neat when people claim your particular group has the power to be single-handedly responsible for getting something cancelled. Bow before us, ye mere mortals! Plus there are T-shirts. ;)

And as to, "So why do you watch?"....while I didn't, after a certain point...

Yeah. With the exception of "You're Welcome", I didn't watch Angel after the episode where Cordy finally came out as Ms Evil 2000-whatever-freakin'-year-it-was.

...as far as I was concerned I earned the right to watch and complain by watching (and loving) the several years before a lot of the johnny-come-latelies showed up.

I agree, to a point. After a while though, it just starts to sound like whining. I should know; I whined with the best of them.

And no, I'm not trying to say that old time fans are better in any way.

Dude, elder statesmen of fandom!

But it is a bit irksome to get the "recanize TEH BRLIANZE" speech from someone who's had five or six years less experience in the trenches than you.

Or to get it from someone who spells it "recanize TEH BRLIANZE" no matter how long they've been around. ;)

You know, I honestly couldn't tell you. I meant to check that out last night and didn't have the time. Right now, Saturday's looking good.

Of course, I meant 'I haven't visited...'. I'm not a functional illiterate, I just play one on the internet. But Saturday's looking good here too. Cold and rainy; my favorite two reasons to stay in.

But that's what I was trying to say before--there's no way George could have known Callie had broken up with him once and for all.

Well, hmm... 'Guess what, you don't have to bother figuring it out any more' is kind of clear to me. But I've been told I give up too easily.

A break-up is, "George, I'm sorry, but this isn't working out anymore" followed by mutual regrets and both parties acknowledging. Or, you know, a big hairy screaming match. But not what Callie did.

Yeah, but one thing I like about Callie is she isn't a big old drama queen. So, if you're going to take 'this is my last invitation' as her last invitation, then you should know what 'you don't have to bother figuring it out any more' means.

Then there'll be a real break-up.

Well, I figure break-ups are unilateral. They occur when one of two says they do, and it's real, whether I like it or not.

That said, if Callie knew George as well as she thinks she does, she'd have known she'd have to make some declaration, I guess. (Or maybe she does know, and knowing that she didn't is why she feels guilty.) So once again, it's not all either one's fault.

By more Mere-like, do you mean physically or emotionally?

I'm not sure what I mean, except that I don't think Callie is terribly Mere-like, despite sharing a characteristic or two. It just seems like a stretch to think that George completely changed types in... a month? However long it was between The Disaster and when he finally rang Callie's bell. As it were. But I suppose for the sake of illustrating the wonderfulnessosity of MerDer, Callie and George may be the break-up/make-up weaving in the tapestry.

But I personally think George/Callie are not the endstory for either one of them.

Meaning you think they are done once and for all?

Angela

10-30-2006, 08:08 AM

True, but then, it's kind of neat when people claim your particular group has the power to be single-handedly responsible for getting something cancelled. Bow before us, ye mere mortals! Plus there are T-shirts. ;)

Oh, if it only it were true. The Power of the TShirt would have been a really cool super power, especially the one that said, "Shut up, Joss". Might have been enough to save poor Wonder Woman.

Yeah. With the exception of "You're Welcome", I didn't watch Angel after the episode where Cordy finally came out as Ms Evil 2000-whatever-freakin'-year-it-was.

I was dumb enough to watch the whole rest of that horrible season. I kept thinking that something, anything, would make it better. It didn't.

Dude, elder statesmen of fandom!

Now THERE'S a tshirt!

...Well, I figure break-ups are unilateral. They occur when one of two says they do, and it's real, whether I like it or not.

I'm not saying that Callie didn't break up with George, nor am I saying that she's under any "official" obligation to him after she says those words. What I'm trying to say is that George didn't realize that one-liner followed by a hasty retreat was a final, real break-up. Because it didn't *feel* like a real break-up. Not to me, anyway, and I would guess probably not to George. Not at the level and depth of their relationship. That kind of break-up works fine for someone you've gone out with a few times, but not so much when you've dated for...a while (I'm not sure how long in show time), you're exclusive, you're committed, you've lived together, and at least one of the partners has uttered those three magic words. What it felt like, again to me and probably George, was that Callie's feelings were hurt and she was upset. The end of the evening, surely, but not the end of the relationship.

That said, if Callie knew George as well as she thinks she does, she'd have known she'd have to make some declaration, I guess. (Or maybe she does know, and knowing that she didn't is why she feels guilty.) So once again, it's not all either one's fault.

And yes, even Callie acknowledges that it wasn't a final break-up. Not if she feels like she "has" to tell George.

But I suppose for the sake of illustrating the wonderfulnessosity of MerDer, Callie and George may be the break-up/make-up weaving in the tapestry.

Blech. Bite your tongue. I know GA uses patient's and their situations to get points across to the interns. But using other interns to get points across to the interns? It would really hack me off if George and Callie broke up for nothing more than that.

Meaning you think they are done once and for all?

Oh, no no no. At least I hope not. I just meant that I don't see them in the kind of permanent relationship we see with Burke and Yang. They're not each other's Mr./Ms. Right. They're good for each other, or Callie is good for George, but they're not going to be in it for the long haul.

SamIAm

10-30-2006, 02:03 PM

Oh, if it only it were true.

Oh. I thought there was an ST T-shirt that said something like "We cancelled Angel" on it. Well, there should be. (But nothing could save Wonder Woman for me. I mean, sure, CC should get a shot at it if she wants, but I think WW is the most boring superhero in the superhero genre.)

I was dumb enough to watch the whole rest of that horrible season. I kept thinking that something, anything, would make it better. It didn't.

A friend of mine watched to the bitter end also. She said that while she liked the ending, thanks to season four and the odd decision to have Angel running the bad guys, it too didn't make sense.

What it felt like, again to me and probably George, was that Callie's feelings were hurt and she was upset. The end of the evening, surely, but not the end of the relationship.

Okay, I'm not arguing the point. Just saying I give up too easy.

Blech. Bite your tongue. I know GA uses patient's and their situations to get points across to the interns.

I was thinking more along the lines of how, for example, Xander/Cordy was supposed to illustrate a pairing that was worse than Buffy/Angel. They fell short of the mark as far as I'm concerned, but there are those who think X/C was more dysfunctional than B/A, so I guess it worked for some people.

Oh, no no no. At least I hope not. I just meant that I don't see them in the kind of permanent relationship we see with Burke and Yang.

Okay. I do hope they aren't going to be rubber balls though. I rapidly lose patience with couples being portrayed as always in break-up/make-up mode. Eventually, the participants looked stupid for not getting what's clear to even casual observers around them.

Morrigan

10-30-2006, 03:35 PM

Oh. I thought there was an ST T-shirt that said something like "We cancelled Angel" on it. Well, there should be.
There is or was, it said ST - "We killed Angel" and on the back of the shirt it said something like "oh, and You're Welcome"

http://www.cafepress.com/strangerthings.5735466

Angela

10-30-2006, 10:57 PM

Oh. I thought there was an ST T-shirt that said something like "We cancelled Angel" on it. Well, there should be.

Oh, there was definitely a Tshirt. (And thanks, Morrigan, for the link!) I just meant I wished it was true. I'd buy myself one of those tshirt iron press things and I'd be canceling shows left and right. And BSG would be the highest rated show on television, followed by Grey's Anatomy, then Lost, then....well, I'm not sure where I'd go next, but the shows I like would be MUCH higher on the Nielsen list. ;)

(Plus Joss Whedon would never have a job for the rest of his long, long life.)

(But nothing could save Wonder Woman for me. I mean, sure, CC should get a shot at it if she wants, but I think WW is the most boring superhero in the superhero genre.)

I adored the Lynda Carter version of Wonder Woman as a child. I wanted to BE Wonder Woman, or maybe her little sister. Of course, I also wanted to be both Electra Woman and Dyna Girl. Or maybe a Bugaloo. I'm not saying these were quality ambitions, you understand.

A friend of mine watched to the bitter end also. She said that while she liked the ending, thanks to season four and the odd decision to have Angel running the bad guys, it too didn't make sense.

As a fan of Charisma, I don't think there was any redeeming the show for me once I knew she'd been fired, and especially once I learned the nature of her firing. But in retrospect, I think I would have hated season 5 even if she'd still been around. It just wasn't the same show.

Okay, I'm not arguing the point. Just saying I give up too easy.

Say it ain't so! What are we gonna do to fill up the next hiatus? ;)

I was thinking more along the lines of how, for example, Xander/Cordy was supposed to illustrate a pairing that was worse than Buffy/Angel. They fell short of the mark as far as I'm concerned, but there are those who think X/C was more dysfunctional than B/A, so I guess it worked for some people.

You know, it's interesting you should make that comparison, because while I don't think X/C was more dysfunctional, I think that relationship suffered for the same reason George/Callie keep fighting--Xander's first priority was always Buffy and Willow, just as George's seems to be Meredith and Izzie. But it doesn't offend me like X/C occasionally did, probably because I care way more about Meredith and Izzie than I do about Callie. Or maybe it's that Xander really redeemed himself after the end of the relationship, and George and Callie are still sort of in limbo.

(and I should add that X/C will always have a soft spot in my heart no matter how dysfuctionally they sometimes acted)

Okay. I do hope they aren't going to be rubber balls though. I rapidly lose patience with couples being portrayed as always in break-up/make-up mode. Eventually, the participants looked stupid for not getting what's clear to even casual observers around them.

I agree 100%. Will They/Won't They is only entertaining until you get to the point where They Already Did. Past that, it's just repetitious. See Meredith/Derek.

SamIAm

11-04-2006, 02:03 AM

Oh, there was definitely a Tshirt. (And thanks, Morrigan, for the link!) I just meant I wished it was true.

Oh. I guess that loud noise is the point flying right over my head. Yeah, I'd like to be the guy who decides these things. I'd be happier anyway, and that's what's really important. ;)

(Plus Joss Whedon would never have a job for the rest of his long, long life.)

You're overlooking the joys of cancellation there, my friend.

I adored the Lynda Carter version of Wonder Woman as a child. I wanted to BE Wonder Woman, or maybe her little sister. Of course, I also wanted to be both Electra Woman and Dyna Girl. Or maybe a Bugaloo. I'm not saying these were quality ambitions, you understand.

Heh. I wanted to be Will Robinson. I mean, who wouldn't want their very own robot, not to mention the spaceship.

But in retrospect, I think I would have hated season 5 even if she'd still been around. It just wasn't the same show.

Well, I didn't get the purpose behind it. Or the story purpose, I should say. I get why Whedon did it in the meta sense.

You know, it's interesting you should make that comparison...

It seems to me that GA's romances and BtVS' romances are pretty similar in their sometimes less than healthy characteristics.

I think that relationship suffered for the same reason George/Callie keep fighting--Xander's first priority was always Buffy and Willow, just as George's seems to be Meredith and Izzie.

True that, though Callie does at least know George and Meredith aren't going to go down that road again. Cordy never had the same sort of assurance re: Buffy. I'm just hoping we aren't going to get George and Izzie swapping spit any time soon. ;)

(and I should add that X/C will always have a soft spot in my heart no matter how dysfuctionally they sometimes acted)

I'm not saying that it's the kind of relationship I'd want, but it was the more realistic of the three high school romances portrayed. I always thought it fit the picture of tragic romance better than B/A too.

So, gotta say, I loved last night's episode, though I see the response is pretty much lukewarm. One good thing is they seem to be ready to take a romance break, which I'm ready for too. I'm liking where I think they're going with the Burke/Cristina/Bailey thing, and can't wait for Alex to finally decide he's had enough.

In a related question, Addison: crappy taste in men or what?

George and Meredith being Cristina and Izzie was great too. "McDreamy was doing the McNasty with McHottie? That McBastard."

Morrigan

11-04-2006, 02:47 AM

You're overlooking the joys of cancellation there, my friend.

I just got this really odd mental image of you sitting in a chair laughing maniacally after canceling a JW show after 3 eps.

SamIAm

11-06-2006, 08:53 AM

I just got this really odd mental image of you sitting in a chair laughing maniacally...

Also, moustache-twirling. ;)

Angela

11-17-2006, 01:06 AM

So I gotta say, I loved tonight's episode. Best in at least the last three, IMO. It felt like a lot happened, and that we really moved forward. But it wasn't too fast.

Cristina and Burke are headed in a bad direction. I think it's all about to unravel, and the fallout may be their relationship. I think they're going to blame each other, and I think they're both right because they were both at fault. But in Cristina's shoes, I'd sure be feeling rotten about having Burke turn on me after all she's done.

I'm going to just close my eyes and "La la la!" at anything that interferes with my now hotly-burning-again love for all things Alex/Izzie. It sure didn't feel like closure tonight. More like postponement to me.

Meredith and McDrippy....didn't make me nauseous tonight. I don't know why.

I was SO hoping McSteamy was going to get in trouble. No such luck.

Pooooor George. I don't get what Callie was up to tonight. Was she trying to help him by being all flirty with his brothers? I wish she knew that he knew about Sloane. I just don't think I like her much anymore.

Angela

11-24-2006, 12:22 AM

Hate to post after my own self, but not so much that I won't do it. And I have to do it. Because I don't know what I expected in regards to the end of the Big Tremor Deception, but that wasn't it. And I have to say, Christina sure was...well...a bitch. After spending the entire episode convincing Burke not to say anything and that they need to get their stories straight, while he's in surgery she runs down to talk to the Chief? Without consulting him at ALL--a courtesy he had already extended to her? That was just rotten, and I wouldn't blame Burke if he booted her out on her bony little backside.

Meredith and Derek....did not make me nauseous again tonight. That's gotta be a record.

Alex and Addison? La la la LA...still not happening in my happy little World o' Denial!

In regards to George and Izzie--they were both wrong, and they were both right to be upset with the other. Which is the way it happens in the real world, so it was nice to see here. Also nice to see them reconciled at the end. Not that it meant much after seeing what a HORRIBLE thing Christina did. Oh, wait...already did that one, didn't I?

Well it was really really rotten.

Helena

11-24-2006, 06:04 AM

An intense episode!

Loved Mer & Der in this, and I thought she was right in the last scene.

Do not like Dr Burke, he is to egoistic and doesn´t care what he is asking of Chistina. A real bastard in this ep.

What Angela said about Izzy and George.

SamIAm

11-24-2006, 10:48 AM

Okay, wow. I have more to say, but I want to watch both episodes again. 'Cause, wow.

SamIAm

11-27-2006, 01:21 PM

Because I don't know what I expected in regards to the end of the Big Tremor Deception, but that wasn't it.

Nor did I. Probably another in a long list of reasons why I'm not producing a TV show. And it's making me anxious to find out where they're going with Izzie and her 'oh, please...' attitude regarding her probation period. (She's lucky Bailey hasn't reached up and yanked those rolling eyes out of her head.)

And I have to say, Christina sure was...well...a bitch.
Do not like Dr Burke, he is to egoistic and doesn't care what he is asking of Christina. A real bastard in this ep.

Hee! Yes, to both things.

After spending the entire episode convincing Burke not to say anything and that they need to get their stories straight, while he's in surgery she runs down to talk to the Chief?

To be fair, Burke made two things manifestly clear to Christina, the first being he wasn't going to get any stories straight with her or anyone else. The second thing he made clear was he no longer needed her services in any regard. I'm sure Christina suddenly felt all alone in the matter, and I can see where she'd grab the nearest lifeline. That's not to say she did the right thing, cause, dude! But she did an understandable thing.

This is all acknowledging that, no matter who made what decision for whichever reason, Burke, as the authority figure, has the ultimate responsibility for how this all went down.

...and I wouldn't blame Burke if he booted her out on her bony little backside.

First, I think Christina's backside is just fine, thank you. Second, Isaiah Washington can close a door with all kinds of attitude and authority. I hope the rumors that this is his swan song aren't true.

Meredith and Derek....did not make me nauseous again tonight.

Well, McDrippy started with the entitlement crap, and that bugged. I think I'm still just wishing McVet had won.

Alex and Addison? La la la LA...still not happening in my happy little World o' Denial!

I hope you're right, and the writer seems to agree, but that was a moment. Let's have no more of them.

Also nice to see them reconciled at the end.

Semi-reconciled at least. George already knows about the apology timing issue from the Meredith fiasco. Still, in what universe does anyone think a guy tell his mother about his love life?

And in what universe does George get away with not telling his parents why he suddenly wants a new doctor to operate on his father?

Loved Mer & Der in this, and I thought she was right in the last scene.

Seriously. Where does McControlFreak get off thinking just because he's with Meredith, she has to tell him everything all her friends tell her?

Gotta feel for Webber. He's finally ready to put Adele first, and he's discovered he has no one on staff he can trust with his hospital. Though I do think he's got his priorities whacked out; it's time for him and Adele to enjoy what he's worked to attain. If that means going outside the hospital, then he ought to do that.

I also think George was negligent in not going to someone; Bailey, maybe, to tell her what he knows and/or suspects. I realize he had no proof, but put yourself on the operating table and tell me you wouldn't want the question to have been raised and investigated before Burke brought a sharp knife next to your heart.

I do like Dr. Hahn and all, but isn't the cast already getting kind of large? Has Shonda never been told what happened to Buffy?

SamIAm

12-29-2006, 05:09 PM

I am not pleased with that preview. No, sir, not pleased at all.

Angela

12-29-2006, 11:04 PM

Preview....?

SamIAm

12-30-2006, 10:12 AM

Preview....?

At the end of the episode Thursday, there was a preview for "the next new episode of Grey's Anatomy". -->Alex and Addison... It looks as wrong as it sounds. But George and Callie appear to be getting along better than they have been. <--

Angela

12-30-2006, 11:03 AM

At the end of the episode Thursday, there was a preview for "the next new episode of Grey's Anatomy". -->Alex and Addison... It looks as wrong as it sounds. But George and Callie appear to be getting along better than they have been. <--

Yeah, I dug around and found that promo. I didn't see anything about them.

Okay, so I closed my eyes and mumbled "La la LA" while it was going on. But still--totally did NOT happen in my world!

I'm going to deny it until it actually happens in an episode. I'm good at denial. I watched most of season 4 AtS.

In other news, looks like more tears from Izzie and same old same old from Mer/Der. There are many speculating that George is screaming at Bailey with the "how could you do that to me?", but I think that's just creative editing. It looked like Bailey was out in the corridor while George was in a room.

SamIAm

12-31-2006, 10:22 PM

Yeah, I dug around and found that promo. I didn't see anything about them.

The Force of Denial is strong with you, Skywalker. (I'm hoping it's as long-lasting as GeoMer. Or a giant fake-out.)

There are many speculating that George is screaming at Bailey with the "how could you do that to me?", but I think that's just creative editing. It looked like Bailey was out in the corridor while George was in a room.

Oh, the fact that it looks like George is screaming at Bailey in a promo is near certain proof that George isn't screaming at Bailey. ;)

And yeah, it looks like George is in or around a patient's room, likely his Dad's. Bailey is clearly near the desk in the lobby area.

Anyway, based on what he said, I'd guess it's either Izzie or Meredith, with an outside chance that it's Callie. Forced to pick one, I'd commit to Izzie.

Angela

01-01-2007, 02:08 AM

The Force of Denial is strong with you, Skywalker. (I'm hoping it's as long-lasting as GeoMer. Or a giant fake-out.)

You know, back when the GA cast was on Oprah, Kate Walsh mentioned how much she'd like Addison to get to kiss "that Karev". Knowing what we know now, she'd obviously already seen the scripts for the last couple of eps and probably the next as well. I read in an interview yesterday that now she thinks Mark and Addison's story isn't done yet, that there's still a lot of ups and downs in their relationships, and Alex and Addison are more platonic--said they're just alike, they're cut from the same cloth, she sees him as a younger version of herself, etc. I'm wondering how many scripts she's read now.

Grasping? Yes, I almost certainly am. But at this point, I'll take anything.

Plus, you know, the Force really is strong in me. Heh.

Anyway, based on what he said, I'd guess it's either Izzie or Meredith, with an outside chance that it's Callie. Forced to pick one, I'd commit to Izzie.

But I can't imagine what Izzie could have done. She doesn't have anything to do with Dad's case, and she certainly doesn't have any right or authority to make decisions for or even with anyone. And it sounds to me like someone has done something at least sort of authoritative behind George's back. Doesn't he say something like "How could you do this to me?"

Okay, just looked it up at YouTube, and if you slow it down, you can see that he's actually yelling at the Chief. In the first scene, he's approaching the Chief wearing the grey sweats outfit, and you hear his voice saying "You shouldn't have done it!". The Chief turns around slowly, and then you hear George saying, "You knew better!". Miranda is standing nearby, watching sadly. And then we see George in the hospital room shaking his head. While it's not clear that all of that was directed at the Chief in that one scene, it is clear to me that at least part of it was.

Veddy veddy interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD2UJ4J9GM0

Starts at about the 19 second mark.

Helena

01-01-2007, 03:51 AM

Isn´t George yelling at Dr Burke?

SamIAm

01-01-2007, 06:56 AM

Grasping? Yes, I almost certainly am. But at this point, I'll take anything.

Well, it does seem like a huge mistake.

But I can't imagine what Izzie could have done.

More talking to his parents? I dunno; it just seemed like it was something personal, not professional or Dad-related, and they've already done falling outs with Meredith and Callie. But...

Okay, just looked it up at YouTube, and if you slow it down, you can see that he's actually yelling at the Chief.

Down and to the left...
Down and to the left...
Down and to the left...
Down and to the left...

;)

I can't YouTube; don't have the horsepower for it, I guess. But I'll take your word for it. Well, if George is yelling at Webber, that should be interesting.

Angela

01-01-2007, 11:27 AM

Isn´t George yelling at Dr Burke?

I don't think so. When he approaches the counter where Webber is standing, he, Bailey, and some random orderly/nurse are the only medical staff in site. And an earlier shot shows Burke in a hospital bed with a black sling around his shoulder, so I'm thinking Derek's going to take another shot at fixing Burke's shoulder. Which, I think, puts Burke out of the running as George's yelling target.

Well, it does seem like a huge mistake.

Understatement of the century. And that's not just because of my latent Alex/Izzie tendencies. To me, Alex and Addison just don't look right. They don't have a romantic vibe. There's not that kind of chemistry between them. Not to mention Every. Other. Attending. on the show has a major romance going with an intern. It looks and feels forced, like the PTB just ran out of cast members to hook up, and it will be doubly so if they hook up Mark and Izzie.

More talking to his parents? I dunno; it just seemed like it was something personal, not professional or Dad-related, and they've already done falling outs with Meredith and Callie. But...

I reeeeeally hope it's not personal because that would seem grossly inappropriate and unprofessional for him to be screaming and crying at the hospital that way. And it would be exponentially worse IMO if it's over something like talking to his dad. That wasn't a very grown-up sounding O'Malley. I can give him some leeway if it's over his dad's health. Not so much if it's over someone spilling his secrets.

And, you know, I wonder if, in the end, his dad won't make it after all. That would explain George's emotional state, and why both Webber and Bailey appear to be not so upset with him screaming that way.*

SamIAm

01-02-2007, 09:07 AM

I reeeeeally hope it's not personal because that would seem grossly inappropriate and unprofessional for him to be screaming and crying at the hospital that way.

Well, George is in civvies, not the scrubs and lab coat uniform, so professionalism isn't that big a deal. And, you know, with all the stuff that's been blurted out by many of the interns (and not just a few residents/attendings), it appears SGH has a different standard for 'professionalism' anyway. ;)

Angela

01-02-2007, 10:46 AM

Well, George is in civvies, not the scrubs and lab coat uniform, so professionalism isn't that big a deal. And, you know, with all the stuff that's been blurted out by many of the interns (and not just a few residents/attendings), it appears SGH has a different standard for 'professionalism' anyway. ;)

Fair point, that. And let's not even get into the fact that George may well be the only intern who hasn't had sex in the hospital. I'm sure he has, what with Callie living there and all, but he's the only one we haven't actually seen onscreen. He's due a meltdown or three under those circumstances. ;)

SamIAm

01-03-2007, 08:54 AM

And let's not even get into the fact that George may well be the only intern who hasn't had sex in the hospital. I'm sure he has, what with Callie living there and all, but he's the only one we haven't actually seen onscreen.

I'm watching the season 2 DVD's while waiting for new stuff to come back. They did show George and Callie in post-coital bliss at the hospital in "Blues for Sister Someone". Of course, in the same episode, we're reminded that Burke and Cristina pretty much had the on-call room as their own private pleasure den, so your point stands up pretty well.

Angela

01-03-2007, 11:28 AM

I'm watching the season 2 DVD's while waiting for new stuff to come back. They did show George and Callie in post-coital bliss at the hospital in "Blues for Sister Someone". Of course, in the same episode, we're reminded that Burke and Cristina pretty much had the on-call room as their own private pleasure den, so your point stands up pretty well.

So all of 'em have done it, then. At least Burke and Christina always locked the door. I'm not sure if Alex and Izzie did, but we know for sure that Alex and Olivia did not (see Izzie's sudden entrance), nor did Meredith and Derek (see same for Callie). And Meredith and Derek were actually in a room that should have been kept sterile for patients. I hope they at least pulled down a new layer of that paper stuff that goes over the examining bed.

Much like LOST, sometimes you just have to not think too much about this show.

SamIAm

01-04-2007, 08:34 AM

Much like LOST, sometimes you just have to not think too much about this show.

Well, no. Watching any TV show that isn't a documentary and expecting reality is a doomed expectation. And even if it is a documentary, you have to be careful. Fortunately the internet is here will all the TRUFAX! ;)

Angela

01-05-2007, 12:22 AM

Well, no. Watching any TV show that isn't a documentary and expecting reality is a doomed expectation. And even if it is a documentary, you have to be careful. Fortunately the internet is here will all the TRUFAX! ;)

That actually made me snicker out loud. ;)

You know, all I really ask is that it's realistic enough to suspend disbelief. For most of this stuff we're discussing now, I didn't think twice about it when it occurred. Okay, the Mer/Der thing kind of grossed me out at the time, but my level of antipathy towards all things Mer/Der may have been a factor there. For the rest, it just didn't register. All except the possibility of Alex/Addison, which just. does. not. feel. right. Or real. Here's hoping GA doesn't go that one step too far.

LOST, otoh, (for lack of a better word) lost me at the beginning of this season.

SamIAm

01-05-2007, 08:41 AM

You know, all I really ask is that it's realistic enough to suspend disbelief. For most of this stuff we're discussing now, I didn't think twice about it when it occurred.

Yeah. I don't think it's that anything they've done, like attending's dating interns or people losing their cool in public, has never happened in a hospital (or any other working environment), so it is realistic in that regard. It's just when it gets to be everyone, all the time, that a series loses all credence with me.

Well, at least Bailey looks like she's immune to the disease. Probably Webber too.

LOST, otoh, (for lack of a better word) lost me at the beginning of this season.

Yeah? I admit I want to claw my eyes out whenever Jack/Kate/Sawyer/Others are on-screen, but I'm back to groovin' on the Locke stories. Which probably means they'll kill him off next. :(

Angela

01-05-2007, 09:18 PM

Yeah. I don't think it's that anything they've done, like attending's dating interns or people losing their cool in public, has never happened in a hospital (or any other working environment), so it is realistic in that regard. It's just when it gets to be everyone, all the time, that a series loses all credence with me.

That's a big part of the problem. That and the fact that it all seems to be restricted to our little core group. C'mon--NONE of these people date anyone outside their circle? And Olivia didn't count because she was more catalyst than relationship prospect for George or Alex either one.

Of course, if you count Callie as a former outsider and include Finn as a part-timer, it's not quite so bad. Denny too, I suppose. And Sloan. So, you know, maybe not as hopeless as I'd like to think. :)

Well, at least Bailey looks like she's immune to the disease. Probably Webber too.

Bailey seems quite immune, and I hope she stays that way. Webber, OTOH, is inextricably linked with Ellis, so he's sort of always on the cusp of what's believable.

Yeah? I admit I want to claw my eyes out whenever Jack/Kate/Sawyer/Others are on-screen, but I'm back to groovin' on the Locke stories. Which probably means they'll kill him off next. :(

While I do like the re-mysteried-up Locke, I really really REALLY want to know what's going on with the rest of the Lostaways. Claire, Hurley, Sayid, Charlie, Sun and Jin, heck, even Desmond and Rose and Bernard. They've been shamefully ignored in favor of stuffing Others down our face, and no matter how creepy Ben can be or how gently sinister Juliet appears, I will just never care half as much about them as I do about the other people JJ et al. got me to caring about two years ago when this all started. I was never a huge Kate fan, and Sawyer I can usually take or leave, but even Jack (whom I love) is fast starting to wear on me because it's all about HIM. And Kate and Sawyer and Others. Too much of this and I could well become a former Lost fan.

Angela

01-16-2007, 10:36 PM

What, no commentary on the aftershow hooplah between the Grey's cast? Specifically KH speaking out quite publicly and bluntly against IW for his....er...impulsive comments?

SamIAm

01-17-2007, 08:19 AM

What, no commentary on the aftershow hooplah between the Grey's cast? Specifically KH speaking out quite publicly and bluntly against IW for his....er...impulsive comments?

What?

Angela

01-17-2007, 08:28 AM

Well, apparently at the press conference after the Golden Globe awards, one of the reporters (Casablancas is taking credit) brings up Chokegate again and tries to find out what really happened. In the midst of Shonda's trying to diplomatically work her way around the question, IW bounds up the microphone, says (I'm paraphrasing here) in a quite cheerful tone of voice, "No, I did not call TR a f_____. It did not happen." It is quite awkward and very uncomfortable to hear the word repeated that way, and I'm not the only one who thought so--you can see Dane and Dempsey in the background, and they both hang their heads and look like they wish they were a thousand miles away.

Shortly thereafter an Access Hollywood reporter is interviewing Heigl and asks her about it, and Katie is not shy about expressing her opinion. She says Washington just shouldn't speak in public, that she can't believe he repeated it with TR in the room, that TR is her best friend and she will "throw down for that kid". I've got to give her props for defending her friend, but I'm of two minds re: her bluntness. On the one hand, this should be taken care of in house. KH says as much in her little rant. OTOH, it clearly wasn't when this all went down, and IW absolutely should not have said it the way he did.

TR is going to be on Ellen today and supposedly will address it. You can catch KH's speech if you get an early morning repeat of Access Hollywood.

ETA: linkage.

Some of KH's comments, via tvguide (http://community.tvguide.com/thread.jspa?threadID=700016830)

Isaiah Washington, who backstage at the Golden Globes made some sort of bid to set the record straight about what he did or did not call T.R. Knight during the infamous October on-set fracas, may have only dug himself in deeper — at the very least with another Grey's Anatomy cast mate, Katherine Heigl. Speaking to Access Hollywood after his latest spiel, Washington reiterated, "There is no way I could do anything so vile" as calling another person the F-word.

Heigl, though, says Washington's revisiting of the incident — complete with uttering the epithet — hurt Knight, who was also in the press room at the time. "I'm going to be really honest right now. [Isaiah] needs to just not speak in public. Period," the actress tells Access Hollywood in an interview airing Tuesday. "That did not need to be said, I’m not OK with it. Drawing attention to it and saying the word again is just unnecessary."

And Ausiello's take on the incident, found here (http://www.tvguide.com/News-Views/Columnists/Ask-Ausiello/default.aspx).

Question: Hey, Michael, were you in the press room when Isaiah Washington hijacked the microphone and said, "I did not call T.R. Knight a f----t!" And, if so, care to give us the scoop?— Genie
Ausiello: I certainly was there, and I have the internal scars to prove it. It was by far the ugliest, most uncomfortable press-room moment I have ever experienced. And judging by the shell-shocked faces on the cast — particularly T.R. Knight and Patrick Dempsey, who have been class acts throughout this entire ordeal — it was a new low for them, too. And what's ironic about the whole thing is that in Washington's attempt to clear his name, he came off as an out-of-control homophobe who throws the f-word around like it's candy. (He's also playing fast and loose with the truth. Did he call T.R. a f----t to his face? No. Did he refer to him as one behind his back? Yes. T.R. says so himself on today's Ellen DeGeneres Show.) His continued employment on a show that wears its diversity as a badge of honor is the height of hypocrisy. If ABC wants to be remotely true to the principles Shonda Rhimes so eloquently espouses through the show, it has to do the right thing and fire Washington. Anything else at this point is simply unacceptable.

Morrigan

01-17-2007, 11:03 AM

Wow, I had no idea that went down. I'm surprised they're keeping IW around, it just doesn't make for a good working environment.

SamIAm

01-17-2007, 11:44 AM

Well, I probably should have an opinion beyond 'Isaiah, shut up and look pretty', but, no, that's pretty much it. Heigl should also have shut up and looked pretty. While it's true that she was defending a friend, and that is honorable, she has a responsibility to her employer and co-workers as well.

Anyway, I'm sure Shonda will do what she has to do to maintain order on her show. If that means dumping Washington, at least she has a candidate to replace him.

Anyone catch Knight on Ellen?

ETA: Nevermind, partial transcript here (http://www.towleroad.com/2007/01/tr_knight_confi.html).

Angela

01-17-2007, 02:58 PM

Yeah, I think I agree re: Heigl as well. My first inclination is to defend her and try and rationalize it--she (and the rest of the cast) have kept silent all this time, no one did anything, it was probably the last straw to have heard that while standing right next to TR. But in the end, what she did really just caused the whole thing to blow up even more, and get that word in print a thousand times more than it would have been otherwise. So I'm not sure she did anything but fan the flames.

However, IW is beyond redemption for me at this point. I'm ready for him to move on because all this has caused me to not only not like IW but also not like Burke, and that's never good. OTOH, I love George even more now than I did before. Silver linings and all that.

Sam, who is the good candidate to replace Burke?

SamIAm

01-17-2007, 03:21 PM

Yeah, I think I agree re: Heigl as well.

Well, I can't fault the instinct behind it, so I'll refrain from calling for her head on a platter. ;)

However, IW is beyond redemption for me at this point.

Hmm, yeah, I see that. I'd want to be shut of him as well. But if Knight is willing to work with him, I'd be willing to let it work out.

Sam, who is the good candidate to replace Burke?

Doctor Hahn. With the casual aside from Webber about luring her to SGH and the storyline with Burke's little hand issue, you'd almost think Shonda saw this coming and has been setting up Burke's departure.

Angela

01-17-2007, 05:06 PM

Well, I can't fault the instinct behind it, so I'll refrain from calling for her head on a platter. ;)

My love for Izzie Stephens/Isabel Evans would probably keep me from ever doing that as well, but I will admit that KH's willingness to speak so bluntly on behalf of a good friend goes a long way toward mitigating any feelings I might have had against her.

Hmm, yeah, I see that. I'd want to be shut of him as well. But if Knight is willing to work with him, I'd be willing to let it work out.

I guess right now I'm just having a hard time from separating Washington from Burke. If the time ever comes when I can go back to loving Burke while still not being able to stand Washington, I might feel more lenient.

Doctor Hahn. With the casual aside from Webber about luring her to SGH and the storyline with Burke's little hand issue, you'd almost think Shonda saw this coming and has been setting up Burke's departure.

The problem with replacing Burke with Hahn is that the cast is already dangerously estrogen-heavy. I don't see Sloan's screen time as ever near approaching Burke's, and Webber is (or so we've been lead to believe) about to retire. That more or less leaves Shepherd to pick up the load, and dude... Seriously. I don't think either one of us wants to see that.

ETA: Youtube links.

First, TR on Ellen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1ppZ66sDX0&eurl=

The Access Hollywood spot: http://youtube.com/watch?v=XPazLqwk9Iw&mode=user&search=

And the actual comment, complete with context. Watch ED and PD in the background just after IW throws it out there. http://www.hfpa.org/videogallery/video/49556/index.html

SamIAm

01-17-2007, 08:14 PM

I wonder if it means anything that at the end, Washington left the stage to the right and everyone else to the left.

So, yeah, dude, STFU. Just zip it.

Anyway...

I guess right now I'm just having a hard time from separating Washington from Burke.

Yeah. But Knight still has to pretend Burke is George's friend, so if he can do it, I'll give it a try.

The problem with replacing Burke with Hahn is that the cast is already dangerously estrogen-heavy.

I completely agree. Not to sound politically incorrect, but they're already teetering on the edge with so many women in a male-dominated field like surgery. Which is not to say it's staying that way. As I understand, there are at least as many women as men enrolled in pre-med courses, so the balance is getting there. Some even say at the rate male enrollments have dropped off, the day will come when men are a minority in medicine.

But today is not that day, so I agree re: Hahn. Yet there have been rumblings.

And just to sink back into shallow-land, Sarah Ramirez looked way hot in the HFPA clip.

Angela

01-17-2007, 09:51 PM

I wonder if it means anything that at the end, Washington left the stage to the right and everyone else to the left.

So, yeah, dude, STFU. Just zip it.

I'm afraid we're now way past the point where zipping it is going to cap this geyser. GLAAD has put out a statement, it is apparently all over ET and E! news, and Showbiz Tonight on HNN is apparently going to devote the entire tonight to this issue. IW is going to have to fix this, and the meeting that GLAAD wants to set up with him may be the only way he can do it.

Yeah. But Knight still has to pretend Burke is George's friend, so if he can do it, I'll give it a try.

Knight is a professional actor. Alas, I am not. ;)

Seriously, though, depending on IW's actions and demeanor between now and Thursday, I plan on trying reeeeeally hard to only see Burke on the screen. Cause up until last Monday night, I really loved Burke.

Some even say at the rate male enrollments have dropped off, the day will come when men are a minority in medicine.

That'd be something. Not necessarily something I'd appreciate, because PC or no there are certain specialities wherein I prefer a woman and certain others where I like a male doctor.

But today is not that day, so I agree re: Hahn. Yet there have been rumblings.

You know, I love Hahn and I'd LOVE to see her around full time. Goodness knows there's enough goofery with these interns that they could use more than just the Nazi tearing a strip off 'em. But there would need to be some serious testosterone additions to balance it all out first.

And just to sink back into shallow-land, Sarah Ramirez looked way hot in the HFPA clip.

I thought all the cast looked wonderful except for, strangely enough, Sandra Oh. I don't know why I didn't like her dress or hair, but I didn't. KH looked stunning, but her hair looked too much like last year's Emmy hair. EP looked totally glam and awesome, and, as mentioned, Sarah looked AWESOME. KW, from little glimpses I got of her, looked great too.

Morrigan

01-18-2007, 09:14 AM

And the actual comment, complete with context. Watch ED and PD in the background just after IW throws it out there. http://www.hfpa.org/videogallery/video/49556/index.html

You know, you can almost read their minds at that point. Very interesting.

Angela

01-18-2007, 11:41 PM

You know, you can almost read their minds at that point. Very interesting.

Exactly what I (and many others) have thought. Doesn't take a psychic to figure out what they're thinking...

Angela

01-19-2007, 01:03 AM

Spoiler space for tonight's ep:

Dang. I knew it wasn't going to happen, but I really really REALLY wanted George's dad to live.

And I loved Burke tonight. Loved. Him. Why can't IW be more like the character he plays?

I love that Izzie acknowledges her over-involved-ness and yet refuses to give it up. It's part of what makes her her. And how is spending money to help her patients really any different than using her hands or her brains or her medical skill and knowledge? It's a resource she has that she can use to help others.

I didn't get annoyed with Derek or Meredith tonight. AGAIN. I'm starting to think there's something wrong with me. I also didn't get annoyed at Sloan. In fact, the only thing I did get annoyed with was Alex and Addison. Frankly, they're neither one of them the type to play all coy and shy around each other, and it made me cringe and FF every time they played it.

SamIAm

01-19-2007, 12:50 PM

I'm afraid we're now way past the point where zipping it is going to cap this geyser.

Oh, I know. That was my agreement with everyone else who thought maybe he should just never say anything that isn't written down for him by someone else.

IW is going to have to fix this, and the meeting that GLAAD wants to set up with him may be the only way he can do it.

Eh, no matter what he does, it's all going to smack of 'prove you're not a homophobe/racist/mysoginist/whatever-else-ist'. And since you can't prove a negative, it all becomes indistinguishable from PR.

But again, if Knight and everyone else are willing to give him a chance, then so am I.

...but I really really REALLY wanted George's dad to live.

Yeah, I agree. But as you say, we all knew it wasn't gonna happen.

And I loved Burke tonight.

I did like that there was a thaw there, but seriously, if Burke really thinks he did nothing wrong...

And how is spending money to help her patients really any different than using her hands or her brains or her medical skill and knowledge?

Bailey said she'd be fine if Izzie had spent the money to get in on a surgery, so it wasn't that Izzie spent the money, it's why she spent it. And while I agree that getting emotionally involved is what makes Izzie Izzie, realistically speaking, it's also what makes for nice guys who end up being crappy doctors. Not becasue of a lack of skill or knowledge, but because they, well, cut LVAD wires so their patient can get a heart transplant. Though I'm certain it'll never work out badly, or as badly, as that again for Izzie.

I didn't get annoyed with Derek or Meredith tonight. AGAIN.

I think the key is there were very few Mer/Der scenes. I'd hope the trend continues, but I'm not that naive. Any more.

I also didn't get annoyed at Sloan.

I'll never like Sloan I think, but I'm going to hate him if they end up trashing Addison to make Sloan look sympathetic. At least, that's the only reason I can think that they'd pursue this Addison/Alex thing.

BTW, Krista Vernoff's latest addition to the GA writers' blog, Grey Matter (http://www.greyswriters.com/2007/01/six_more_days_w.html), is a must read.

ETA: Wanted also to bust out with props for TR Knight's performance in the last couple of episodes. Really well done. Golf claps all around.

Angela

01-19-2007, 08:59 PM

Oh, I know. That was my agreement with everyone else who thought maybe he should just never say anything that isn't written down for him by someone else.

In that case, I agree with your agreement. Because I really really do love Burke, and I really really don't like IW much right now, and I'm really really hoping I can just separate the two of them in my mind for a little while.

Eh, no matter what he does, it's all going to smack of 'prove you're not a homophobe/racist/mysoginist/whatever-else-ist'. And since you can't prove a negative, it all becomes indistinguishable from PR.

But again, if Knight and everyone else are willing to give him a chance, then so am I.

I'm still working on that separation thing. I understand that people have prejudices, I really do. You can't help the way you're raised. What I can't at all understand is saying something like that out loud in front of your colleague and, one would assume, friend.

Yeah, I agree. But as you say, we all knew it wasn't gonna happen.

I know. I had to go through the stages, but by lunchtime today (and the weekly teacher's lounge GA chat) I had mostly come to accept it.

I did like that there was a thaw there, but seriously, if Burke really thinks he did nothing wrong...

What exactly do you believe Burke did wrong at this point? I think we've all pretty much acknowledged that they both did wrong during the whole Tremorgate incident, and if they weren't equally wrong than Burke's greater wrong was balanced out by Cristina ratting him out to his superior behind his back. At this point, I think they're pretty well on even footing even if it isn't precisely comfortable. To me, this was more both of them trying to establish who has the upper hand in their relationship, and Burke was the one who blinked first.

Bailey said she'd be fine if Izzie had spent the money to get in on a surgery, so it wasn't that Izzie spent the money, it's why she spent it. And while I agree that getting emotionally involved is what makes Izzie Izzie, realistically speaking, it's also what makes for nice guys who end up being crappy doctors. Not becasue of a lack of skill or knowledge, but because they, well, cut LVAD wires so their patient can get a heart transplant. Though I'm certain it'll never work out badly, or as badly, as that again for Izzie.

I think Izzie will be okay. I suspect she was hurt so deeply (or burned so badly) with the Denny situation that she'll be very careful not to let herself get quite so personally involved again. And really, I'm not sure how personally involved she was this time. To me, Alex would be more deeply involved if he'd taken the same step Izzie did, or even George for that matter, because the money would mean a lot more to them. I don't think it means anything at all to Izzie, or she wouldn't have left it stuck on the refrigerator for so long (and let it get trampled all over judging by the footprints on it). To Izzie, the money was nothing more than a means to an end, and that's the way she used it.

I think the key is there were very few Mer/Der scenes. I'd hope the trend continues, but I'm not that naive. Any more.

If hoping for more of the same means I'm naive, so be it. I like Mer/Der when I can like Mer/Der, and apparently absence really does make the heart grow fonder.

I'll never like Sloan I think, but I'm going to hate him if they end up trashing Addison to make Sloan look sympathetic. At least, that's the only reason I can think that they'd pursue this Addison/Alex thing.

I think I could probably like Sloan under the right circumstances. I never thought I'd like Alex the first few eps, and yet here I am. Of course, I like Alex a whole lot better when he's not laying lips on Addison that way. Because I just do not and will not like them as a couple.

Speaking of, I was ruminating on that whole storyline in the shower this morning. Really, shouldn't Addison aborting Mark's baby get more than just an afterthought as a storyline? Shouldn't that be a major thing? It should be HUGE really, and it wasn't. I think that was an unfortunate choice of storylines, and I'm not sure where they're planning to go with it. So it's supposed to be okay that Addison had an abortion because she liked the father enough to have an affair with but not so much as a father? I don't know if I can believe that (a) Addison was cold enough to do that and (b) that she apparently hasn't given it a second thought until this week. It feels false and untrue to the character. And if it is true, it makes me not like Addison as much as I did.

ETA: I don't mean to start an abortion debate, and that wasn't what I intended at all. (And I changed some of my language that was a bit more inflammatory than I intended.) My beef is not with the fact that she had an abortion, but for the casualness with which the storyline is being treated. I wish it had gotten a better treatment from the writers.

BTW, Krista Vernoff's latest addition to the GA writers' blog, Grey Matter (http://www.greyswriters.com/2007/01/six_more_days_w.html), is a must read.

Darned if that didn't make me cry too. And it adds new depth to the episode in question.

ETA: Wanted also to bust out with props for TR Knight's performance in the last couple of episodes. Really well done. Golf claps all around.

Seconded. And thirded.

SamIAm

01-22-2007, 08:34 AM

What exactly do you believe Burke did wrong at this point?

The whole thing with the tremors. That's what all this with Christina has been about.

I don't think it means anything at all to Izzie, or she wouldn't have left it stuck on the refrigerator for so long (and let it get trampled all over judging by the footprints on it). To Izzie, the money was nothing more than a means to an end, and that's the way she used it.

No way I can agree with this. If the money meant nothing to her but a means to an end, then what was with all the tears and stuff when she finally did deposit it?

I like Mer/Der when I can like Mer/Der, and apparently absence really does make the heart grow fonder.

Well, fond is too strong. Maybe absence makes the heart less intolerant?

It feels false and untrue to the character. And if it is true, it makes me not like Addison as much as I did.

I pretty much agree with you on the question, and is part of why I thought they were trying to make Sloan look good at Addison's expense.

Darned if that didn't make me cry too. And it adds new depth to the episode in question.

Yep. Come Emmy time, this is the episode that ought to be submitted for the writing. So far anyway.

Still, I look in at TWoP and I see people whining about Vernoff using the episode to create Mary Sues. So I left again. :rolleyes:

Seconded. And thirded.

Chandra Wilson too.

DamnSkippy

01-22-2007, 09:40 AM

To horn in on your convo for a moment, the check, IMO, represented Izzie's responsiblity for Dennie's death. For her it was dirty money and not depositing it put off accepting the fact that she was responsible for his death (well, earlier death). Let's face it, the money wouldn't be there if Dennie hadn't died and she hadn't hastened that death by her actions. That's why the psychologist insisted she take it and deposit it. Until she did, she wasn't accepting that she, in fact, *was* directly reponsible for him dying. So I agree with Sam that it wasn't just a means to an end. Depositing the money was accepting his death, her part in it, and letting it and Dennie go - hence all the drama and tears.

Morrigan

01-22-2007, 10:04 AM

That's why the psychologist insisted she take it and deposit it. Until she did, she wasn't accepting that she, in fact, *was* directly reponsible for him dying. So I agree with Sam that it wasn't just a means to an end. Depositing the money was accepting his death, her part in it, and letting it and Dennie go - hence all the drama and tears.

Is it accepting responsibility for his death or just accepting his death? I would think the latter.

DamnSkippy

01-22-2007, 12:56 PM

Is it accepting responsibility for his death or just accepting his death? I would think the latter.

I would think it's both. She has to accept her part in his death as well as the death itself. She received the money because he died and she was directly responsible for him dying, therefore, the money represents no only his death but what she did. That's a pretty heavy burden and she can espouse all day that she knows what she did and knows it was a mistake, but by ignoring the check she was really *not* accepting it, IMO. Depositing the check - accepting the money - was a symbol, for me, of her not only accepting his death but that *she* was directly responsible for that money being in her hands. But, YMMV. ;)

Morrigan

01-22-2007, 02:40 PM

I would think it's both. She has to accept her part in his death as well as the death itself. She received the money because he died and she was directly responsible for him dying, therefore, the money represents no only his death but what she did. That's a pretty heavy burden and she can espouse all day that she knows what she did and knows it was a mistake, but by ignoring the check she was really *not* accepting it, IMO. Depositing the check - accepting the money - was a symbol, for me, of her not only accepting his death but that *she* was directly responsible for that money being in her hands. But, YMMV. ;)

I'm not saying your wrong, I haven't really watched all that much of the show this season. I just wasn't sure if they actually had Izzy own up to it. I don't know if I'm making sense she was actually one of my favorite characters on the show but I thought the whole Dennie storyline was rather stupid and I just didn't they'd actually have her own up to it.

DamnSkippy

01-22-2007, 06:01 PM

I haven't really watched all that much of the show this season. I just wasn't sure if they actually had Izzy own up to it.

I'm not sure to whom she's expressed her guilt entirely. She did just in the last episode tell Bailey she knew that she crossed the line with Dennie and was wrong and I'm guessing she has had to admit that to the psychologist and the head guy as well or she wouldn't be back. But more than that, I'm not sure they've actually shown her express that to too many people.

Angela

01-22-2007, 11:38 PM

The whole thing with the tremors. That's what all this with Christina has been about.

But I still think there was wrong on both parts there. Burke was the superior, sure, but he was in a particularly vulnerable state at the time, and Christina had the upper hand at least in the beginning. It was at her urging that the big cover-up began in the first place. And, as I said, even if you consider his to have been the greater wrong throughout Tremorgate, then that was balanced out by her ratting him out behind his back when she knew he couldn't get to the Chief.

No way I can agree with this. If the money meant nothing to her but a means to an end, then what was with all the tears and stuff when she finally did deposit it?

The tears and stuff had nothing to do with the money, really. It had to do with finally accepting that Denny was gone, that he wasn't coming back. That check on the fridge was the last thing Denny gave her, and it symbolized something more to her than the 8.7 million smackeroos it represented. Depositing it was like giving him up for good. Not that this is the same thing, but way back in the day I had a very serious relationship end, and for almost six months afterward I dreamed about the guy's pickup. Every dream, it'd appear somewhere--parked outside or driving by and once at the bottom of my aunt's pool. The first night I didn't dream about it, I woke up in tears because it was like we were really finally over. I know it sounds silly and dumb, but it felt real, and I think that's what that check was to Izzy.

Well, fond is too strong. Maybe absence makes the heart less intolerant?

Absence is like a good antacid?

Yep. Come Emmy time, this is the episode that ought to be submitted for the writing. So far anyway.

I totally agree. It really did just add a whole new layer to the ep, and made everything more meaningful. I know that a lot of people think the BtVS ep about Joyce's death is overrated, but I felt like it had another layer knowing that so much of it was true. Same thing with this--the mistaken removal of the tumor, the laughing at the..er...wind in the hallway, the family standing around at the end.

Still, I look in at TWoP and I see people whining about Vernoff using the episode to create Mary Sues. So I left again. :rolleyes:

Yeah, I caught that too. I just left, and then went and lurked in the KH thread for a while. It's nice to see someone else besides the leftover Roswell Lizbot fans who hang out to rat on KH for kicks. And there are actually tons of people defending her now!

Chandra Wilson too.

Yeah. Oh yeah. One of the nice things about this show is it's a true ensemble. The supporting cast is at least as talented (and in some cases far more) than the leads. There really isn't a clunker in the bunch, and that includes Mer and Der. (Okay, so I don't always like their characters and frequently hate their storylines, but I don't have a problem with their performances.) Even McSteamy, who started out a bit wooden, is thawing out considerably.

Deb and Morrigan, I think Izzie has definitely owned up to what she did. She verbalized it quite well to Bailey, I thought. Said she knew she'd crossed the line and that she would never ever let that happen again. And I believed her--she knew she got overinvolved, but she was so badly burned doing it that she's in no danger of doing it again. Which is not to say she won't feel something for her patients. She's not as emotionless as she probably should be, but in some ways that's one of her strengths. As early as the second episode she was doing things she shouldn't--she's the one that went out in the rain to help the illegal immigrant, something that would have gotten her fired if she'd been caught. But wouldn't we all like to think we'd do the same thing?

Or maybe that's just because I tend to be overly emotional and overinvolved too. Comes with the territory in my profession. :)

SamIAm

01-23-2007, 11:43 AM

But I still think there was wrong on both parts there.

And I agree. But Burke told Addison he did nothing wrong, so, you know, 'sup with that?

The tears and stuff had nothing to do with the money, really. It had to do with finally accepting that Denny was gone, that he wasn't coming back.

Well, yes, but it had to do with the money because it was about accepting Denny was gone and wasn't coming back, and her not finding anything to do with the money. She was pretty clear about that.

I totally agree. It really did just add a whole new layer to the ep, and made everything more meaningful.

Agreed.

And there are actually tons of people defending her now!

Well, Izzie rocks, so...

There really isn't a clunker in the bunch...

Agreed here too. Which takes me back to the long-running debate; is a cast so good it can make the writing look better, or can writing be so good, they can't help but be better actors? ;)

As for the rest, I don't mean to say that Izzie's ever going to come apart at the seams again like she did with Denny. I tend to agree that she won't, and that GA will make it work.

It's just that, in "real life", a doctor who gets wound up in personal entanglements with a patient isn't usually a great choice for a doctor. A doctor has to be detached enough to carry on when a patient dies, or to be able to say a risky procedure is the only chance for a meaningful life, even if it shortens that life, or to stand there and tell someone they're beyond help. Or even just to accept that saving patient A may mean their patient is going to die. All these things are harder to do when it's personal, as you can imagine. But GA isn't "real life", so they should carry on.

Angela

01-24-2007, 01:05 AM

And I agree. But Burke told Addison he did nothing wrong, so, you know, 'sup with that?

But he also acknowledged that Christina probably felt the same way. I think he's emotionally intelligent enough to see that they both felt both completely right and completely wronged by the other, and also understand that both of them were probably at least somewhat at fault. At least, that's what I took from him saying Christina felt that way too and then later describing his condition to Derek. If nothing else, he took the first step towards reconciliation. I hope Christina is smart enough to take the next one.

Well, yes, but it had to do with the money because it was about accepting Denny was gone and wasn't coming back, and her not finding anything to do with the money. She was pretty clear about that.

True enough, and I think we're sort of at cross-purposes here. When I say the money meant nothing to her, I don't mean literally that it had no meaning. I mean that she's not at all mercernary, and the money didn't mean anything to her in the, "Oh, hey, I'm a millionare now!! What can I get with all my money???!!" sense. The way it would to me and most other human beings. The money to her won't mean that her lifestyle will change significantly, or that she'll go out and spend it on what we think of as luxuries. She'll use it for things like paying for someone's lifechanging surgery instead.

Which is not to say that she won't ever splurge and indulge herself a little. Just that she won't be pulling up to Seattle Grace in a Rolls Royce anytime soon.

Well, Izzie rocks, so...

Well, you know that and I know that, but unfortunately a lot of other (Mer/Der) fans don't so much agree...

Agreed here too. Which takes me back to the long-running debate; is a cast so good it can make the writing look better, or can writing be so good, they can't help but be better actors? ;)

In this case, I think it's a happy confluence of events that includes both. I will say, though, that when there have been clunkers and such I tend to blame the writers and not the cast.

It's just that, in "real life", a doctor who gets wound up in personal entanglements with a patient isn't usually a great choice for a doctor.

I know in my head you're correct, but at the same time, if I had a life-threatening condition or even a not-fatal one, I think I'd prefer a doctor who's a little overemotional to one who is completely detached. Or at least a doctor who's a little more human than some.

At least, I'd prefer her right up until the point she cut my LVAD. ;)

SamIAm

01-27-2007, 07:52 PM

Oh, damn. That was Marti Noxon's name in the credits, and she's writing an episode (http://www.greyswriters.com/2007/01/great_expectati.html). Okay, with Shonda, but still...

So...

1) Friends rule.
2) I assume Richard's moving on to be the director of the free clinic? It's hard to unresign, and it sounded like he's happy he's not going to be the guy any more.
3) I, for one, would never have picked Alex to be the level-headed one. I do hope we are finally and completely done with that.
4) If knowing they've disappointed Bailey doesn't make DAMP knock off the "secrets" and "silliness", they're beyond help.
4a) Whoever ends up as Chief needs to make sure he/she runs all decisions past Bailey for her blessing.
4b) I'm not convinced Richard won't remain Chief, but I am fairly sold on the idea that none of the others make it.
5) Excellent casting for Jilly and Rachel. Both actors sold the roles to perfection.
6) Convention says both women accept because it's obviously a bad idea to do so. But I think Cristina says yes and Callie says no. Unless it's the other way around. ;)

I thought this episode started off slow, but what a great finish. And while it had its moments, at least it wasn't the bat-to-the-stomach the last two episodes were, so there's that. And I'm still going to hope Noxon's not a permanent addition.

Angela

01-28-2007, 04:35 PM

I totally loved that ep. I loved George and Izzie, loved Burke and Christina, loved the Amish girls, loved Webber, loved Bailey (LOVED Bailey!), and loved...okay, totally did NOT hate Derek and Meredith. I even loved the squabbling attendings--I thought they were nice comic relief, and much needed in light of what else has happened in the last couple weeks. I loved Bailey getting on to DAMP (that's cute!); we already knew she was the Mommy of the interns. Looks like she'll be fulfilling that role for the attendings now as well. That was awesome!!

Now I just wish Noxon's name in the credits didn't strike fear and terror into the heart of me.

ontheedge

02-05-2007, 11:37 PM

Angela, SamIAm, no commentary on last week's Grey's Anatomy?? I've enjoyed reading your back and forth this season, and was surprised neither of you commented on the marriage, Ellis, the end of episode sex, the clinic and/or the toxic patient.

Angela, I think that like me, you are an Izzie fan, so I wondered what you thought of her in the last episode. Pretty much every other post at TWOP is "I hate Izzie" or "Izzie is such a bitch". Then again, I like her, and even I thought she was a bitch last episode. It almost seems like the writers/producers are going out of their way to make people dislike her. And that's produced a couple of interesting conspiracy theories, if you're into that stuff: 1) The producers are getting back at KH for not towing the company line and for speaking out in public, regarding IW; 2) the producers/writers are making Izzie look bad to make Meredith look good by comparison. Don't think I really believe either of these things, but they're kind of amusing to think about.

Anyway, I enjoyed the episode mostly. Really felt for Meredith for the first time, in like, ever. I thought Addison lusting after Alex was amusing (though maybe not to you guys). The toxic patient storyline, while a bit over the top, was riveting, especially as doctors kept passing out.

Just hope the writers have some legitimate reason for how they're portraying Izzie, like she's just really envious of Callie for getting married to a great guy, when Izzie lost her chance at that, or that Izzie is scared and insecure about losing her place in her best friend George's life. If it's just character assassination for the sake of it, well, let's just say, I don't need to relive Angel season 4.

SamIAm

02-07-2007, 08:34 AM

Angela, SamIAm, no commentary on last week's Grey's Anatomy??

Yeah. Don't know why; I liked the episode well enough, but it didn't pop.

...neither of you commented on the marriage...

I think it's a bad idea. Not for a story or anything, but there's just something about going from breaking up to getting married within like, a couple/three weeks or so that makes me think some time to reconnect was in order. We'll see.

...Ellis...

First, much love for the actress. Second, I think it's now fairly evident why Meredith's father just up and walked away, not to mention from where Meredith's issues stem.

...the end of episode sex...

Burke and Christina? They're a bigger powder keg than George and Calliope Iphegenia.

...the clinic...

Eight days from concept to opening? Forget Chief of Surgery, Bailey should be Queen of the Universe. (Well, she should, but there's no way a clinic goes from non-existant to open for business in eight days.)

...and/or the toxic patient.

The less said about toxic patient the better, IMO.

... so I wondered what you thought of her in the last episode.

Not Angela, but I too like Izzie. (For the record, I like all of them except Sloane.)

Izzie, for all her empathy for patients, can be monumentally insensitive towards her friends. And yes, 'You're not moving in, are you?' was as painful as a physical slap in the face, but she has her heart in the right place and she is a good friend to George in most other respects. If there can be soulmates in Friend Land, Izzie and George are soulmates.

If I were going to find something to gripe about in the episode, it isn't anything to do with what has happened, other than the Addison/Alex drama. It's actually what hasn't been happening. Up until now, we knew Izzie, and to a lesser extent Meredith, didn't like Callie, and why they didn't like TMIGirl. But with Olivia's comment, we're now supposed to think this is a common feeling with the staff? So, how come?

But that's a minor thing, I guess. It just seemed unnecessary to build up to the Big Moment to have everyone dumping on Callie in front of George. It's enough he had to get in Izzie's face about it.

That said, I did notice Meredith was the only person who congratulated George. I don't know what it means, but it was nice.

Angela

02-07-2007, 09:36 PM

Angela, SamIAm, no commentary on last week's Grey's Anatomy??

I'm currently working two jobs, and since my second job is as a tax preparer in the middle of peak, as you can imagine my free time is close to nonexistent. That said, I too liked the ep well enough, but it didn't strike any major sparks.

I've enjoyed reading your back and forth this season,

Thank you kindly. :)

and was surprised neither of you commented on the marriage, Ellis, the end of episode sex, the clinic and/or the toxic patient.

The marriage was rushed and hasty, and I think the brevity of the courtship may be reflected in the length of the marriage. That said, it's a done deal, so George is going to have to man up about it. Which he seemed to do at episode's end, so good for him. I can't say I always like Callie and George together, though, so if it's over sooner rather than later that's okay too.

Ellis? Is a grade A capital B bitca, and I have a whole lot more sympathy for Meredith now than I did before. It's no wonder she can seem whiny and immature about her relationships. Her father abandoned her and her mother provided no emotional stability. I think it's a miracle that Meredith isn't a kabillion times more messed up than she is.

I don't remember end of episode sex. Are we talking about Burke and Christina? If so, I hold out more hope for them than George and Callie simply because I think B and C have their eyes open in regards to each other and even themselves. If they make it to the ceremony, I think they'll stand.

Toxic patient was no bomb-in-the-body-cavity guy, that's for sure. That storyline felt mostly meh to me.

And the clinic. *sigh* I know it's a lot of money, but c'mon. There's no way they had it open that quick. No. Way. It would have taken longer than that just to get legal certifications and such.

Angela, I think that like me, you are an Izzie fan,

So very am.

so I wondered what you thought of her in the last episode. Pretty much every other post at TWOP is "I hate Izzie" or "Izzie is such a bitch". Then again, I like her, and even I thought she was a bitch last episode.

She was. Izzie is too quick to speak her mind sometimes, and she can certainly be catty. But I don't think she would really have been that outright rude. I think the writers wanted to make a storyline about George standing up for his wife, and they took the easy way out by making everyone else, especially Izzie, act as the Mean Judgemental Friends. I wish they'd gone a different direction, but hopefully that's the end of it.

It almost seems like the writers/producers are going out of their way to make people dislike her. And that's produced a couple of interesting conspiracy theories, if you're into that stuff: 1) The producers are getting back at KH for not towing the company line and for speaking out in public, regarding IW; 2) the producers/writers are making Izzie look bad to make Meredith look good by comparison. Don't think I really believe either of these things, but they're kind of amusing to think about.

The problem with the first theory is that these eps were already well in the can by the time the GG thing happened, and they were most likely written last fall. And in order to believe the second, the writers would have to understand that Meredith has been unlikeable at times, and I don't think they believe that at all. No, as I said about, IMO all they were doing was trying to further the George/Callie storyline, and everyone else suffered in the process.

And I totally have to go with a What Sam Said™ in regards to George and Izzie and their frienship soulmate-iness.

I thought Addison lusting after Alex was amusing (though maybe not to you guys).

Ugh. So very not. Then again, I know that Sam and I, while not the only ones who don't like the Addisex, are certainly in the minority so far as online fandom goes.

Just hope the writers have some legitimate reason for how they're portraying Izzie, like she's just really envious of Callie for getting married to a great guy, when Izzie lost her chance at that, or that Izzie is scared and insecure about losing her place in her best friend George's life. If it's just character assassination for the sake of it, well, let's just say, I don't need to relive Angel season 4.

While I suspect Izzie is a little jealous that she's not the number one galpal in George's life anymore, I don't think there's anything more than that to it. I don't think she's attracted at all to him. I think she loves him and is protective of him and probably doesn't think Callie is good enough for him, but I think that's as far as her own feelings go.

SamIAm

02-13-2007, 02:07 PM

Then again, I know that Sam and I, while not the only ones who don't like the Addisex, are certainly in the minority so far as online fandom goes.

But the woman who writes the Is It Just Me... column for TV Guide is on our side. Different reasons, but at least she's on our side.

So, last week's episode was kind of meh. Hopefully it's just because it's part one of three (I think), and not the Noxon effect kicking in.

Angela

02-13-2007, 10:52 PM

But the woman who writes the Is It Just Me... column for TV Guide is on our side. Different reasons, but at least she's on our side.

I suspect there are a whole lot of us who don't speak up, for the most part. I know I don't, mainly because it's not worth the inevitable fight. I just hope the writers eventually see the light.

So, last week's episode was kind of meh. Hopefully it's just because it's part one of three (I think), and not the Noxon effect kicking in.

I kind of think it was the effect of having two solid eps stretched out to three. But I read an online review somewhere that talked about how awkward the ER/GA mix was, what with this huge, life-changing, horrific event going on in town while, for example, Addison is chiding the boys about the Chief's hair color. It was a bit of a strange juxtaposition. I hope next week turns out better.

(But I'm not holding out much hope after seeing the promos. Does every so-called Super Bowl ep have to include Mer in some life-threatening emergency? I mean, seriously.

SamIAm

02-14-2007, 07:04 PM

I kind of think it was the effect of having two solid eps stretched out to three.

That's kind of Marti's thing too though. As is the thing in spoiler font, though, yeah, Shonda has gone to that well once or twice too many. So Marti's going to reinforce all Shonda's bad habits? It is just like Buffy!

I hope next week turns out better.

Fingers are crossed.

Angela

02-15-2007, 12:16 AM

So Marti's going to reinforce all Shonda's bad habits? It is just like Buffy!

That isn't exactly high praise for either of us, I know.

Fingers are crossed.

Breaths held? Not so much.

SamIAm

02-16-2007, 08:33 AM

Breaths held? Not so much.

And a good thing too. What the heck was that "I believe..." speech all about? How come George suddenly has no faith in these doctors he's been calling the best ever ever since the series started? Was that really the time for Izzie to dump on Callie, again?

I guess it's a good thing Callie at least is still available to, you know, be a surgeon. 'Cause apparently SGH's ER is staffed with incompetent fools and it requires the entire surgical staff to try to revive one patient.

Speaking of, brain surgery without a neurosurgeon in attendance? No wonder Webber thinks Burke and Yang did nothing unethical.

And does anyone seriously think for one microsecond that the series is suddenly going to become Stevens' Anatomy or O'Malley's Anatomy?

On the plus side, they got Kyle Chandler to quit coaching football for a while, and Denny's back. Sort of. But regardless of what Dramatic Voice-Over Guy says, the arc with George's dad and the Burke-Yang crisis was far more compelling than this.

I want my show back.

Angela

02-16-2007, 07:46 PM

And a good thing too. What the heck was that "I believe..." speech all about? How come George suddenly has no faith in these doctors he's been calling the best ever ever since the series started? Was that really the time for Izzie to dump on Callie, again?

I hated that scene. Hated. It. Every part of it. The "I believe" thing was completely out of left field, and the "Your marriage was a mistake" was soooo very unnecessary and harsh. The George losing faith was sort of eh for me, mainly because after everything else I can see him wavering. But Izzie? No love for her from me this week. Which is sad, considering that just a few minutes earlier I'd been thrilled that she'd done a good thing.

I guess it's a good thing Callie at least is still available to, you know, be a surgeon. 'Cause apparently SGH's ER is staffed with incompetent fools and it requires the entire surgical staff to try to revive one patient.

I said almost the exact same thing in Jennem's LJ. Every major surgeon in the cast hovering around Meredith--who, as a drowning/hypothermia victim, did NOT NEED SURGERY--while around them dozens of victims of major trauma needed them desperately? It was just stupid.

And does anyone seriously think for one microsecond that the series is suddenly going to become Stevens' Anatomy or O'Malley's Anatomy?

I'm holding out for Bailey's Anatomy myself.

But no, Meredith is not going to die. Which makes this all even more stupid.

On the plus side, they got Kyle Chandler to quit coaching football for a while, and Denny's back. Sort of. But regardless of what Dramatic Voice-Over Guy says, the arc with George's dad and the Burke-Yang crisis was far more compelling than this.

The sad thing for me is that I really liked this episode right up until the end. I loved Alex's story with the the pregnant lady and dealing with all the family and friends, and I liked Izzie's smackdown of the guy while she was drilling holes, and George trying to find the little boy before his mother woke from surgery was good, too. And heck, I just close my eyes and hum really loudly whenever it looks like Alex and Addison are close to hooking up. So not a bad ep.....right up until they pulled the stupid crap with ALL the surgeons and the hovering and the *coughcough* "Am I dead?" business.

I want my show back.

Ditto, a thousand times over.

shar

02-19-2007, 03:51 PM

I hated that scene. Hated. It. Every part of it. The "I believe" thing was completely out of left field, and the "Your marriage was a mistake" was soooo very unnecessary and harsh. The George losing faith was sort of eh for me, mainly because after everything else I can see him wavering. But Izzie? No love for her from me this week. Which is sad, considering that just a few minutes earlier I'd been thrilled that she'd done a good thing.

I wouldn’t have even minded all the ‘I believe’ nonsense if they had just left it there – trying to get her to rally the troops as it were. It was completely inappropriate to then start laying into George – well done Izzie when you should all be coming together turn on your friend. I am getting pretty sick of Izzie’s hate for Callie. I don’t like George and Callie together either but get over it already! They had better not paint it as a poor Izzie she is just upset as she should be married to Denny, as she has been nasty to Callie from the get go when there was no need. What really grates on me is that Meredith is painted with the same brush as bitchy friend, when she has never been so nasty – apart from the whole naked peeing and to be fair that was weird.

But no, Meredith is not going to die. Which makes this all even more stupid.

See this is where I have to admit to being the stupid TV Monkey who falls for all the clichés – my heart is in my mouth I am worried Meredith will die when I know they would never kill her off – but I fall for it hook line and sinker. I enjoy the agonising cliff-hanger moments – just so long as there aren’t too many but this once a season bomb in a body and ferries crashing really do have me sitting on the edge of my seat and I really do enjoy them.

George trying to find the little boy before his mother woke from surgery was good, too.

I didn’t like this storyline at all I just didn’t connect with it for some reason – I thought Bailey was ridiculous sending him on a search for the little boy – would he not have been better off helping Christina in the Pit? As tragic as it would have been had the little boy died – either way when things calmed down it would have become clear what had happened to him.

I just close my eyes and hum really loudly whenever it looks like Alex and Addison are close to hooking up.

Yeah I don’t like this Addison and Alex hook up at all it just seems so forced if they really want another intern attending – I would way prefer if they went with Mark and Izzie I can at least see potential there.

Angela

02-19-2007, 11:30 PM

I am getting pretty sick of Izzie’s hate for Callie. I don’t like George and Callie together either but get over it already! They had better not paint it as a poor Izzie she is just upset as she should be married to Denny, as she has been nasty to Callie from the get go when there was no need. What really grates on me is that Meredith is painted with the same brush as bitchy friend, when she has never been so nasty – apart from the whole naked peeing and to be fair that was weird.

I don't at all agree that Izzie has been overly nasty, and I hate the idea that all of George's friends are supposedly characterized as "icky and judgemental". While I think Callie has been good for George in a lot of ways, she's also done some bitchy things herself. She spent a whole lot of time being jealous and judgemental herself, and I don't think she ever realized or really cared how deeply George felt about his "family". And it's not like George's friends have gotten to see the softer side of Callie. I also think in a situation like this there's bound to be a certain amount of conflict, and George is bound to be caught in the middle. It's the nature of the beast. So far as I can see, the only real misstep anyone made is (a) George and Callie rushing into marriage and (b) Izzie's "I believe" speech. And those are both attributable to bad writing, IMO. Neither of them feel very natural or real to me.

Yeah I don’t like this Addison and Alex hook up at all it just seems so forced if they really want another intern attending – I would way prefer if they went with Mark and Izzie I can at least see potential there.

Ugh. No Mark and Izzie--that's just as bad as Alex and Addison. I'd like to see Addison make a real man out of Mark, and someday, when Izzie's a little more together, she and Alex can get back together just like they belong.

shar

02-20-2007, 10:48 AM

I don't at all agree that Izzie has been overly nasty, and I hate the idea that all of George's friends are supposedly characterized as "icky and judgemental". While I think Callie has been good for George in a lot of ways, she's also done some bitchy things herself. She spent a whole lot of time being jealous and judgemental herself, and I don't think she ever realized or really cared how deeply George felt about his "family". And it's not like George's friends have gotten to see the softer side of Callie. I also think in a situation like this there's bound to be a certain amount of conflict, and George is bound to be caught in the middle. It's the nature of the beast. So far as I can see, the only real misstep anyone made is (a) George and Callie rushing into marriage and (b) Izzie's "I believe" speech. And those are both attributable to bad writing, IMO. Neither of them feel very natural or real to me.

Izzie has never really made an effort with Callie, which I never understood – would she have been so standoffish with any girl or was it just Callie? I can understand Callie’s being jealous she is coming into this tight unit and none of the girls are accepting her that’s gotta be hard and to be fair to Callie as well all she heard about them at first was George’s opinion when he was mad at them so its no wonder her opinion of them was tainted. When you’re told this people are horrible its hard for her to then turn around and forget what she was told when they made up. I agree with the George and Callie Marriage – not feeling real but I have never really been able to get behind this couple, the whole relationship to me has seemed fast and rushed so I have just ignored it. The “I Believe” speech while I agree it was poorly handled, I did like the essence of it – that in such situations you have to have faith and hope in the absence of certainties. The dig about George’s marriage threw out the speech but I still was moved by what they were trying to say.

Ugh. No Mark and Izzie--that's just as bad as Alex and Addison. I'd like to see Addison make a real man out of Mark, and someday, when Izzie's a little more together, she and Alex can get back together just like they belong.

See at least with Mark he is a Man Whore so I can see him try it on with the hot intern. I like Mark he reminds me of Alex so if they start writing his character with a bit of depth I can see some potential in him. I can see Izzie giving Mark that humanizing touch that she gave Alex. It could be that I find Mark and Alex similar so either of them in a relationship with Izzie would make me happy as I figure it would go along a similar path. I must say I thought I would be championing the Mark - Addison relationship – but I just don’t see it.

SamIAm

02-20-2007, 12:48 PM

The "I believe" thing was completely out of left field...

It reminded me of the speech Cordy made at the end of "First Impressions". An entire bushel of WhatTheHellWasThatAboutandWhereDidItComeFrom?

The George losing faith was sort of eh for me, mainly because after everything else I can see him wavering.

I could have dealt but for the fact that it seemed like the only reason for it was to give Izzie the chance to roll her eyes and speechify.

I'm holding out for Bailey's Anatomy myself.

I could get behind that.

I did check out the GA writers blog and it would seem that yes, many people thought Meredith may die. Obviously I'm far too jaded for television. ;)

The sad thing for me is that I really liked this episode right up until the end.

Well, there were bits. But seriously, no one leaves an intern in charge of jack, let alone gives an intern the freedom to ad hoc a system of his own design. Hospitals have entire departments just to handle stuff like this. And no one would let an intern run around looking for lost kids. Or gripe 'cause their patient had finally shut up and allowed a required surgery to commence. And isn't Sydney a surgical resident? (Not really a question, 'cause yes, she is.) So why's she sitting around in a clinic letting the intern deal with stuff an intern would never be left to deal with?

The biggest cheat of all though, is Meredith, a healthy young woman with no obvious injuries or chronic conditions who can't climb out of the same water a middle-aged overweight guy with a compound fracture of the tibia just did. Riiiiighttttt.

Ditto, a thousand times over.

I'm hoping it's a blip on the radar. Just in case though, I'm sourcing Noxon voodoo dolls.

DamnSkippy

02-20-2007, 02:08 PM

The biggest cheat of all though, is Meredith, a healthy young woman with no obvious injuries or chronic conditions who can't climb out of the same water a middle-aged overweight guy with a compound fracture of the tibia just did. Riiiiighttttt.

I thought that as well. The only explanation is if she just can't swim. I find that difficult to believe, but there are people who can't or never learned. With a mother too busy for her and an absent father, I suppose it's possible there was no one to teach her or take her to lessons. Or maybe she always had a fear of water. In any case, I doubt that will be addressed in dialogue.

Angela

02-20-2007, 11:54 PM

Izzie has never really made an effort with Callie, which I never understood – would she have been so standoffish with any girl or was it just Callie?

Well I certainly think she gave her as much a chance as any other intern (or staff member, apparently) up there. And to be fair to Meredith and Izzie, Callie hasn't ever really given them a chance either. And they were around first. Not to mention the whole walking into a bathroom naked, using it in front of God and everybody, and then walking out without washing her hands. I'm not even in healthcare and that would have freaked me out considerably, probably past the point I'd ever be able to forget it.

It reminded me of the speech Cordy made at the end of "First Impressions". An entire bushel of WhatTheHellWasThatAboutandWhereDidItComeFrom?

There were, in fact, many dealings from that barrel in that ep. And in the last couple, to be quite honest.

I did check out the GA writers blog and it would seem that yes, many people thought Meredith may die. Obviously I'm far too jaded for television.

Now that's just sad. I can't believe people honestly think that, on a show called Grey's Anatomy, there's really a possibility that Meredith Grey is going to bite the bullet. Seriously.

The biggest cheat of all though, is Meredith, a healthy young woman with no obvious injuries or chronic conditions who can't climb out of the same water a middle-aged overweight guy with a compound fracture of the tibia just did. Riiiiighttttt.

There is a small but determined group of people who seem to believe she was trying to kill herself. That it's all connected to the bathtub scene that morning, that her mother's effect on her was fatal this time, that Derek SO should have seen this coming and prevented it...oh, the angst that is Meredith's life!!!

Seriously, though, that seems as likely as the idea that Meredith couldn't get herself out of the water. It's not even like she had that heavy coat on. Why did she just SINK that way? It's totally nonsensical. Just as nonsensical as Derek jumping in the murky water and finding her almost immediately after she'd been in the water an indeterminate and yet lengthy amount of time.

The only explanation is if she just can't swim. I find that difficult to believe, but there are people who can't or never learned. With a mother too busy for her and an absent father, I suppose it's possible there was no one to teach her or take her to lessons. Or maybe she always had a fear of water. In any case, I doubt that will be addressed in dialogue.

Now, see, that's almost a rational explanation. Too bad I don't think the show will 'splain things nearly this well.

I'm hoping it's a blip on the radar. Just in case though, I'm sourcing Noxon voodoo dolls.

Oooh. Buy them in quantity. We can all use one. Or screw the sourcing all together--I've got a nice sewing machine. I'll bet I could mass produce those puppies.

SamIAm

02-21-2007, 10:07 AM

There were, in fact, many dealings from that barrel in that ep. And in the last couple, to be quite honest.

Yeah. It's kind of scary, 'cause in the GA blog, Shonda made the dreaded "we're trying to change things" claim. Like that's ever worked out well. And why would you, after unseating CSI as the ratings champ, try to change things?

Now that's just sad.

Well, maybe they were just sucking up to Shonda.

There is a small but determined group of people who seem to believe she was trying to kill herself.

Honestly, that was my knee-jerk reaction when she didn't just climb out. I'm pretty sure that's not what I was supposed to believe though. Yet I'm not buying the swimming thing either. BrokenLegWithArterialBleedingGuy wasn't doing a lot of swimming either, I'd venture to say.

...oh, the angst that is Meredith's life!!!

Ah, yes, the angst. Nice house. Three friends who'll put up with pretty much any crap she dishes out. The hot, if flaky, boyfriend. High profile job, her skills for which are inexplicably admired. Yeah, her life sucks.

Just as nonsensical as Derek jumping in the murky water and finding her almost immediately after she'd been in the water an indeterminate and yet lengthy amount of time.

Hee. He was literally McDrippy there. :)

Yeah, it didn't make much sense on any level. Man, how I'd have appreciated it if the ep had been written so that Search and Rescue had pulled Meredith out instead of going to this extreme to force some ridiculous metaphor.

I'll bet I could mass produce those puppies.

Go for it. I'll see about buying pins in bulk.

SamIAm

02-21-2007, 04:21 PM

Added to add:

And now comes the splitting of the focus (http://www.medialifemagazine.com/artman/publish/cat_index_31.asp).

Possibly spoilery, BTW. But what can ya do?

Angela

02-21-2007, 10:32 PM

Yeah. It's kind of scary, 'cause in the GA blog, Shonda made the dreaded "we're trying to change things" claim. Like that's ever worked out well. And why would you, after unseating CSI as the ratings champ, try to change things?

Ugh. Whatever happened to "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"?

Well, maybe they were just sucking up to Shonda.

And I repeat, ugh. Is that really necessary? And yet that's the most positive possibility. 'Cause the alternative? Not pretty.

Honestly, that was my knee-jerk reaction when she didn't just climb out. I'm pretty sure that's not what I was supposed to believe though. Yet I'm not buying the swimming thing either. BrokenLegWithArterialBleedingGuy wasn't doing a lot of swimming either, I'd venture to say.

I don't think there is an explanation. Seriously. There's nothing they can say at this point that would redeem this particular storyline for me. Which is why I am SO seriously not looking forward to tomorrow night, because I think it's going to be All. About. Meredith. And her. Inexplicable. Drowning.

However, Dead!Denny and Dead!Dylan might could liven things up.

Ah, yes, the angst. Nice house. Three friends who'll put up with pretty much any crap she dishes out. The hot, if flaky, boyfriend. High profile job, her skills for which are inexplicably admired. Yeah, her life sucks.

Does Meredith even still work on patients? Have we seen her do anything this season but kvetch about her lovelife?

Hee. He was literally McDrippy there. :)

SCORE! That nickname is now completely validated! You know, even more than it already was.

Yeah, it didn't make much sense on any level. Man, how I'd have appreciated it if the ep had been written so that Search and Rescue had pulled Meredith out instead of going to this extreme to force some ridiculous metaphor.

.....

There was a metaphor in that? I assumed it was just high-angst sweeps stunt kind of plotting. We were supposed to learn something? Or Meredith was?

Seriously?

Go for it. I'll see about buying pins in bulk.

I am so totally on that.

Possibly spoilery, BTW. But what can ya do?

I don't consider it spoilery. It's production info for next season. And I have to say, so long as Alex doesn't go? I think it's awesome!

SamIAm

02-22-2007, 09:45 AM

Ugh. Whatever happened to "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"?

Well, I could see an organic change for the sake of reality, as in it's been three years; how much longer will the gang remain interns? But what's with this crap?

And I repeat, ugh. Is that really necessary?

Not necessary, but given Whedon, Minear, Sorkin, and the like, maybe far too appreciated. I've said before, and say again, if I were an exec producer, my first question to a prospective writer would involve how often he/she reads fan sites. Any response other than "Never" would disqualify the candidate.

However, Dead!Denny and Dead!Dylan might could liven things up.

Ah. I was under the impression they were there for the episode-ending cameo only. I guess we'll see.

Does Meredith even still work on patients?

The last time I remember her with a patient was when her half-sister and seriously not her mother showed up. But even then she mostly stood around angsting over the fact that a guy she doesn't like and has no respect for anyway isn't acting like her father.

There was a metaphor in that? I assumed it was just high-angst sweeps stunt kind of plotting.

Yeah, well, you know. Purification by water, death and rebirth, Derek rescuing Meredith from the pain and suffering of her early life and taking her to a shiny new happy life. All that silliness.

And I have to say, so long as Alex doesn't go? I think it's awesome!

Apparently, Taye Diggs (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3i3ed53000aa8dfb51c8cc7a7265ef7cd0) has signed on. That doesn't bode well for the longevity of the series; Diggs is getting a show-killer rep.

What happened to the series Shonda was doing for Jeffery Dean Morgan, I wonder.

SamIAm

02-22-2007, 10:14 PM

I'm stunned. An episode where the protagonist learns new truths about herself by having conversations with dead people! Wherever did they come up with that idea?

As for the rest, eh, at least it's over. And apparently we have some time to come to grips with it all.

I do hope Kyle Chandler and JDM get to work together again. They were pretty much the highlight of the episode.

Angela

02-22-2007, 11:56 PM

Well, I could see an organic change for the sake of reality, as in it's been three years; how much longer will the gang remain interns? But what's with this crap?

Oh, organic change could be good. (Note my use of the word "could") But organic change does not equal, "Hey! Let's be like ER! Only with fluffy dialogue in the middle!"

I've said before, and say again, if I were an exec producer, my first question to a prospective writer would involve how often he/she reads fan sites. Any response other than "Never" would disqualify the candidate.

I'll second that emotion. And third and fourth it, too. Cause that list you ran by earlier was not exactly awe-inspiring.

The last time I remember her with a patient was when her half-sister and seriously not her mother showed up. But even then she mostly stood around angsting over the fact that a guy she doesn't like and has no respect for anyway isn't acting like her father.

Well, I didn't have much respect for Thatcher myself, and as a bit of a Daddy's girl I can at least appreciate the cause for her angst. I might have more sympathy for the standing around part except that's all she and Derek have done all season.

Apparently, Taye Diggs (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3i3ed53000aa8dfb51c8cc7a7265ef7cd0) has signed on. That doesn't bode well for the longevity of the series; Diggs is getting a show-killer rep.

I totally adore Taye Diggs, and I would have said I'd watch him read a phone book except I never got into his last series. But I think he and Addison could be a lot of fun together. I'm going to hold out hope, anyway.

What happened to the series Shonda was doing for Jeffery Dean Morgan, I wonder.

I suspect the network was more interested in furthering a spin-off of their hottest show than testing the waters with a much-beloved-but-minor-character actor cast in a new role no one's ever heard of.

I'm stunned. An episode where the protagonist learns new truths about herself by having conversations with dead people! Wherever did they come up with that idea?

I honestly don't know. Dead Like Me? Medium? The Ghost Whisperer? These are all shows I've never seen, but I heard they involve dead people.

As for the rest, eh, at least it's over. And apparently we have some time to come to grips with it all.

I thought tonight was world's better than last week. Which isn't saying much, I know, but it's something. And I thought there were some strong performances by the other interns and Callie in the time they got to work. And that moment, at the end, with Izzie and Denny? Yeah, that totally made me cry.

I do hope Kyle Chandler and JDM get to work together again. They were pretty much the highlight of the episode.

Wasn't that fun? I was at a TiVO-less friend's house, and there was a phone call, so I missed all of the beginning. But I loved these two guys together. Fun, and surprisingly substantial for a couple of dead guys.

SamIAm

02-23-2007, 02:22 PM

But organic change does not equal, "Hey! Let's be like ER! Only with fluffy dialogue in the middle!"

On, no, definitely not ER, where every week is a Shocking! Conclusion! You! Won't! See! Coming! Unless! You've! Ever! Watched! TV! Before!

Well, I didn't have much respect for Thatcher myself...

Well, no, but I do feel his pain a bit more after meeting Ellis Grey. I'm puzzled as to how those two ever ended up together, but stranger things have happened. Wait, no, they haven't.

I might have more sympathy for the standing around part except that's all she and Derek have done all season.

Well, Derek did separate the conjoined twins, along with half the staff. And he did that thing with the girl with curvature of the spine.

I totally adore Taye Diggs, and I would have said I'd watch him read a phone book except I never got into his last series.

Yeah? I thought it was the best of what he's been in so far.

But I think he and Addison could be a lot of fun together.

Could be good, no doubt. And the show-killer tag's not a lock. Even Jerry VanDyke finally got a series that lasted more than 13 episodes. ;)

I suspect the network was more interested in furthering a spin-off of their hottest show...

Well, after Firefly...

Just wondering where this spin off idea came from is all. The JDM thing at least had been percolating for a bit. This one just seemed to be there, and now I hear there are already plans for a sort-of pilot come May sweeps.

But anything that gets Kate Walsh more screen time is good for me.

I honestly don't know.

I was hinting at the BtVS episode, "Conversations With Dead People." Marti obliquely referred to it in the GA writer's blog. (Wherein she claims she can't screw up GA too bad. Ha! The woman underestimates herself.) She goes on to say this episode was all Shonda's idea.

I thought tonight was world's better than last week.

I don't disagree, though, you know, the least malodorous skunk and all.

And I thought there were some strong performances by the other interns and Callie in the time they got to work.

There was that.

And that moment, at the end, with Izzie and Denny? Yeah, that totally made me cry.

Kinda made me roll my eyes, but I wasn't the target audience for that shot, I think.

But I loved these two guys together. Fun, and surprisingly substantial for a couple of dead guys.

If you get the chance to see it without the distractions, take it. Yeah, they have that elusive onscreen chemistry. I could see a really cool buddy movie there. :)

Angela

02-24-2007, 12:14 AM

On, no, definitely not ER, where every week is a Shocking! Conclusion! You! Won't! See! Coming! Unless! You've! Ever! Watched! TV! Before!

I used to watch that show, but all the capitals and exclamation marks and extra emphasis exhausted me.

Well, no, but I do feel his pain a bit more after meeting Ellis Grey. I'm puzzled as to how those two ever ended up together, but stranger things have happened. Wait, no, they haven't.

I would suspect that they might have appeared very differently when they were both in college or young adults, and that the differences that eventually drove them apart may have been at least somewhat attractive in the beginning.

Well, Derek did separate the conjoined twins, along with half the staff. And he did that thing with the girl with curvature of the spine.

....

If I didn't know better, I'd say that almost sounded like you taking up for McDrippy. ;)

Yeah? I thought it was the best of what he's been in so far.

IMO the best thing he's ever done was Rent, but I'm slightly partial towards that one.

Just wondering where this spin off idea came from is all. The JDM thing at least had been percolating for a bit. This one just seemed to be there, and now I hear there are already plans for a sort-of pilot come May sweeps.

But isn't this also pilot season? Plus with Chokegate and all the recent publicity and that whole no such thing as bad PR, maybe they decided to strike while the iron is hot.

But anything that gets Kate Walsh more screen time is good for me.

There is that.

I was hinting at the BtVS episode, "Conversations With Dead People." Marti obliquely referred to it in the GA writer's blog. (Wherein she claims she can't screw up GA too bad. Ha! The woman underestimates herself.) She goes on to say this episode was all Shonda's idea.

Hmm...so there's blame to share, then?

And since my involvement in BtVS pretty well ended toward the end of season sux, I'm not exactly conversant in season seven speak. But you'd think that title would at least have stuck with me...

Kinda made me roll my eyes, but I wasn't the target audience for that shot, I think.

That may well have been the girliest girl moment ever, but I didn't care. I loved it. LOVED IT. That's the kind of thing I live for.

I could see a really cool buddy movie there. :)

You just totally got my hopes up.

SamIAm

02-28-2007, 08:40 AM

I used to watch that show...

I still watch on occasion, but mostly out of habit at this point.

I would suspect that they might have appeared very differently when they were both in college or young adults, and that the differences that eventually drove them apart may have been at least somewhat attractive in the beginning.

They'd have had to have been really different when they were younger. On the other hand, Richard and Ellis doesn't strike me as a match made in heaven either.

If I didn't know better, I'd say that almost sounded like you taking up for McDrippy. ;)

Well, McDrippy does enough boneheaded things without being held accountable for boneheaded things he hasn't done. :)

IMO the best thing he's ever done was Rent, but I'm slightly partial towards that one.

I've not seen Rent, so I have to stick with Daybeak.

But isn't this also pilot season?

Yeah, it's just like I said, it seemed to come up so quickly. The print version of TV Guide had a small article on the new series. Apparently ABC had been bugging Shonda for a spinoff series for a while now, and Shonda figured spinning off Addison would a) give ABC what they wanted and b) reduce some cast clutter on GA, so win-win. Plus Kate Walsh!

I was wondering if any of the other SGH denizens might go too (specifically Callie, if Izzie's right), but they only mentioned Diggs.

Hmm...so there's blame to share, then?

Usually is; Marti didn't ruin BtVS on her own, no matter how much I'd like to think she did.

And since my involvement in BtVS pretty well ended toward the end of season sux, I'm not exactly conversant in season seven speak. But you'd think that title would at least have stuck with me...

I almost got out of season six, then someone told me Giles was going to be in the greatest scene ever in BtVS history, when he says to Willow, "You're a very stupid girl." (That line still brings a tear to my eye. Ah, good times, good times.) But yeah, "Conversations with Dead People" was a memorable title, and was probably the first time I remotely cared about Buffy in three years, and marked the last time I cared about Buffy or Buffy ever.

That may well have been the girliest girl moment ever, but I didn't care. I loved it. LOVED IT. That's the kind of thing I live for.

Yeah, I suffered a Ghost flashback. That movie ruined romantic scenes for me forever.

SamIAm

03-09-2007, 12:43 PM

Angela

03-09-2007, 09:49 PM

Don't know if this (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117960812.html?categoryid=14&cs=1) is more appropriate here or in the VM thread, so it's in both.

One assumes Lowell will be playing a plucky intern who's involved in an inappropriate relationship with an attending, if previous history is an indicator. ;)

While I don't have a problem with the actor, that idea....you know, I thought Alex/Addison would be an all-time low for poor Kate Walsh, but Addipiz really makes me want to hurl. ;)

SamIAm

03-15-2007, 10:10 PM

There are no words.

Angela

03-15-2007, 11:02 PM

I haven't seen it yet, so could you specify--did you mean that in a good way, or in a "I can't believe I'm still watching" way?

SamIAm

03-16-2007, 08:21 AM

I think there is good and bad for the story in 'there are no words', and I did like the episode far, far more than the past few.

Angela

03-16-2007, 10:23 AM

You know, I did too, which was a bit of a surprise. There was a lot to like in that episode. I think it's a nice twist that Meredith still isn't completely reconciled with her father, but she is getting along just fine with his wife. I was pleasantly surprised to find myself not hating Meredith or McDreamy. AGAIN. This has got to be a record for me.

I liked that the Addison/Alex thing seems to be completely gone (although I suspect that has more to do with spin-off than story). I liked that they're not rushing right back into Alex/Izzie either. I think I may even like the relationship between Alex and Jane Doe so long as it doesn't turn into a heavy romance.

The jury's still out so far as George and Izzie. I don't mind the idea of one drunken comfort fling, but if they try to turn that into a romance I have a problem. I can buy the idea that these are two people trying desperately to reconnect with the one person they've been closest to in the past, but I cannot really buy the idea that these two have hidden romantic feelings for one another. They've never had that vibe before. So I'm a little anxious to see how this turns out.

The one really truly sour note in the whole thing was the idea that Christina had had a three-year long relationship with Marlowe guy. That negates a whole lot of the slack she's gotten from me for not knowing how to handle a real relationship with Burke all this time. It was one thing for her to be so naive and ignorant about relationships when we believed she'd spent her whole adult life focussing on her education and career. It's another to find out she'd broken up with that guy shortly before arriving in Seattle. It means, IMO, that she's just more selfish and egocentric than we'd thought.

Oh, and also? I'm ready for us to have an episode where Burke and Christina don't have a major crisis in their relationship. Seriously. Just one or maybe two where they can actually be happy with each other for the whole hour.

SamIAm

03-19-2007, 03:54 PM

Oh, yeah. Our little show is all grown up (http://www.journalfen.net/community/fandom_wank/1064274.html).

You know, I did too, which was a bit of a surprise.

I've been waiting for a Debora Cahn episode since I first noticed her name in the credits. She single-handedly made seasons six and seven of TWW worth watching, and did a fine job here.

I think it's a nice twist that Meredith still isn't completely reconciled with her father, but she is getting along just fine with his wife.

Well, Mrs. Grey can be persistant. I thought it was nice too that there was finally something the Greys pere and fille could bond over.

I was pleasantly surprised to find myself not hating Meredith or McDreamy. AGAIN. This has got to be a record for me.

Me, too. But it's still a matter of the story not being central on them. I wonder if BAngle would have been tolerable if every single scond of it wasn't so Fraught. With. Significance?

I liked that the Addison/Alex thing seems to be completely gone (although I suspect that has more to do with spin-off than story).

I'm just glad whatever the reason. There's probably a cause-and-effect going on though; Addison leaving Seattle because there's nothing left for her there, including Alex. So there's not much chance Mark's vow of celibacy is going to last. Or maybe Addison's either. As long as it isn't Alex. Or George.

I liked that they're not rushing right back into Alex/Izzie either. I think I may even like the relationship between Alex and Jane Doe so long as it doesn't turn into a heavy romance.

Yeah, that would have kind of put Alex smack in the middle of schmuck territory. As for Jane Doe, I'd imagine if it gets too hot and heavy, Mr. Doe will show up. Gives Alex a taste of 'had it, now it's gone'.

The jury's still out so far as George and Izzie.

Ha! In your court maybe. My jury is back with a verdict of "Do Not Want!"

I don't mind the idea of one drunken comfort fling...

Yeah, I really don't think either one is going to see it as anything more than 'never drink alcohol again'. At least that's what I gathered from the look on Izzie's face.

...but I cannot really buy the idea that these two have hidden romantic feelings for one another.

This is true. Callie was so very, very wrong about why Izzie is all Izzie-ish towards her.

The one really truly sour note in the whole thing was the idea that Christina had had a three-year long relationship with Marlowe guy. ... It means, IMO, that she's just more selfish and egocentric than we'd thought.

Oh, it's impossible for me to believe Cristina is the anything less than the pinnacle of selfish and ego-centric.

As for the 3-year Marlowe thing, there are relationships, and then there's one person having sex while the other one is having a relationship and thinking there's a realtionship. Plus, we only have Marlowe's word for what the relationship consisted of. Christina just characterized it as having sex. So who's telling the truth about what they had, if either one really is?

That said, I think Burke overreacted. Placating is, 'no, honey, that dress doesn't make you look fat' even if it does. Getting married even if you don't think marriage is necessary for a long-term relationship 'cause the other person does think it's necessary is above and beyond placating.

I'm ready for us to have an episode where Burke and Christina don't have a major crisis in their relationship.

It has been a long time since they've been at one with a lack of crises. Since around the time George moved in, I think.

I, on the other hand, am more than ready for an episode where Callie doesn't have an issue with George's weird and judge-y friends. (Her words.) I mean, okay, maybe they don't want to be BFFs with Callie, but damn, the guy married her, not his weird and judge-y friends. And Callie is BFF with Addison, which is so much cooler than being friends with a bunch of interns. Also, if I could afford to blow $10,000 a month on rent, I'd buy some friends if I didn't have any.

Of course, I'd have never lived in a storeroom at the hospital if I could afford to blow $10,000 a month on rent either.

tojoson

03-20-2007, 01:27 PM

Grey's will be running a new episode this Thursday, instead of the scheduled rerun.

http://community.tvguide.com/thread.jspa?threadID=800011095

Angela

03-20-2007, 06:53 PM

Thanks for the info, tojo! I wasn't even aware that a repeat had ben scheduled. But seriously, there are cliffhangers and then there was last week. An extra week without explanation might be enough to make some people give up altogether.

Oh, yeah. Our little show is all grown up (http://www.journalfen.net/community/fandom_wank/1064274.html).

I'm so proud. *sniff*

I've been waiting for a Debora Cahn episode since I first noticed her name in the credits. She single-handedly made seasons six and seven of TWW worth watching, and did a fine job here.

I thought so as well. I wouldn't mind seeing her come up in the line-up again. Soon.

Me, too. But it's still a matter of the story not being central on them. I wonder if BAngle would have been tolerable if every single scond of it wasn't so Fraught. With. Significance?

That's a good question. Although I tend to think I would still have gotten tired of them, it might have been later rather than sooner. But was it the significance part or the overkill? I think Fraught. With. Significance. can work in small doses. Much like candy, a little goes a long way, and too much just makes you nauseous.

I'm just glad whatever the reason. There's probably a cause-and-effect going on though; Addison leaving Seattle because there's nothing left for her there, including Alex. So there's not much chance Mark's vow of celibacy is going to last. Or maybe Addison's either. As long as it isn't Alex. Or George.

Oh, I figure it'll be Mark who'll do the deed. His character has certainly been set up that way, and it will come as no great shock to the staff at SG. Or to the audience, for that matter. And really, if they have to assassinate a character, I'd just as soon it be someone who's already pretty irredeemable. He only has up to go at this point. Alex, otoh, has come a long way, and I'd just as soon he stay where he is than regress. And now George...you know, I don't even know what to say about George.

Ha! In your court maybe. My jury is back with a verdict of "Do Not Want!"

I'm still waiting to see how it's handled. This isn't nearly as distasteful for me as the Meredith/George "experiment" was, and I'm not exactly sure why. Maybe because I firmly (choose to) believe that this will never turn into a romance, or maybe because there weren't any unrequited feelings on display in eps past. Or maybe it's because I know from personal experience that sometimes friends can absolutely go too far.

Yeah, I really don't think either one is going to see it as anything more than 'never drink alcohol again'. At least that's what I gathered from the look on Izzie's face.

I've got all available fingers and toes crossed. That is the only acceptable solution, so long as the friendship isn't ruined forever.

This is true. Callie was so very, very wrong about why Izzie is all Izzie-ish towards her.

As Callie was wrong about many other things, including not telling George she was a kabillionaire. I can't believe that turned into George being the bad guy. AGAIN.

Oh, it's impossible for me to believe Cristina is the anything less than the pinnacle of selfish and ego-centric.

I've been able to excuse and rationalize a lot of things when it came to Christina's behavior because I believed that, as smart as she was, she was naive and inexperienced about matters of the heart. Take that away and I completely agree with your assessment. It makes her all but unlikeable.

As for the 3-year Marlowe thing, there are relationships, and then there's one person having sex while the other one is having a relationship and thinking there's a realtionship. Plus, we only have Marlowe's word for what the relationship consisted of. Christina just characterized it as having sex. So who's telling the truth about what they had, if either one really is?

Christina's reaction to seeing him wasn't exactly platonic, nor were we lead to believe in any way that she was not heavily involved with this man. And I don't believe even Christina would be just "having sex" with someone for three years. But while I don't believe it's going to happen, I will admit the slight possibility that Christina will confess that the relationship meant nothing to her this ep. I might cut her a little slack if that happens. So long as it isn't just Christina trying to earn some major brownie points with Burke by trivializing what really was a meaningful relationship.

That said, I think Burke overreacted. Placating is, 'no, honey, that dress doesn't make you look fat' even if it does. Getting married even if you don't think marriage is necessary for a long-term relationship 'cause the other person does think it's necessary is above and beyond placating.

While I don't think Burke is blameless in what's wrong with the Burke/Christina relationshipl in this case I have to cut him some slack. Technically I suppose that, no, marrying someone under those circumstances is not placating. But to that person, I would suspect it feels a whole lot like placating. And besides, I think it's a matter of semantics. The fact is that she does not appear to really want to marry him. She agreed because he wanted it, and wanted it badly. Isn't that the same as placating in intent if not in act?

I, on the other hand, am more than ready for an episode where Callie doesn't have an issue with George's weird and judge-y friends. (Her words.) I mean, okay, maybe they don't want to be BFFs with Callie, but damn, the guy married her, not his weird and judge-y friends.

I'm just ready for an ep where Callie doesn't have issues with George period. This actually came up at lunch today in the teacher's lounge, and we are all in agreement. While both George and Callie have been at fault before, Callie's faults tend to be on a much grander scale. Sleeping with random (but HOT) resident > not defending SO against weird and judge-y friends. Not telling your husband something as fundamentally important as your net worth > telling your friend you just foudn out your wife is wealthy. Why does George never get to be the one who tells Callie how it should be?

Of course, I'd have never lived in a storeroom at the hospital if I could afford to blow $10,000 a month on rent either.

Tell me about it. And she calls George's friends weird...

tojoson

03-21-2007, 11:18 AM

Ahhh, well I feel a little bit better now regarding that 3 episode bore-fest of the ferry crash.

according to Aysiello in his vodcast

http://www.tvguide.com/News-Views/Columnists/Ausiello.aspx

nobody wanted it to be a 3 episode arc.

Shondra wanted it all in 1 episode, but when ABC saw the budget, they said the only way they would spring for that much money was to spread it out over 3 episodes

SamIAm

03-22-2007, 04:13 PM

I'm so proud. *sniff*

It's a definite you have arrived marker. But after sampling some of the posts, I gotta ask, who is this Donna the one poster thought might have been in the promo?

I thought so as well. I wouldn't mind seeing her come up in the line-up again. Soon.

Apparently she wrote "I Am a Tree" also, so now I'm embarrassed for not noticing.

Although I tend to think I would still have gotten tired of them, it might have been later rather than sooner.

That's kind of how I feel. I thought towards the end there that we'd gone past the intended mark and were uncomfortably close to 'Buffy and Angel are complete morons' territory for just how much they didn't get what everyone else could see.

But then he had to make that tricky U-turn to try to save season five, and, well, no more need be said.

Oh, I figure it'll be Mark who'll do the deed.

That's certainly the expectation. But Addison too isn't above scratching an itch. That's how she and Derek ended up in Seattle in the first place.

And now George...you know, I don't even know what to say about George.

I'm actually left with the same problem. Perhaps more will be said tonight, but for right now, George is in a cloud of mystery.

I'm still waiting to see how it's handled.

Sure. There is potential there.

This isn't nearly as distasteful for me as the Meredith/George "experiment" was, and I'm not exactly sure why.

Yeah? I pretty much figured M/G was going to happen. I also pretty much figured it wouldn't go well, 'cause that's what happens with those things. But I/G? I won't say it was distasteful as such, what wth my well-known (to me anyway) belief that friends make the best lovers. I just don't see it. Even that lawyer only saw that Izzie wanted her friend back.

Also, I think I'd like it if just once, a series did a guy/gal friendship without it turning into TwueWuv4EVAH!.

Or maybe it's because I know from personal experience that sometimes friends can absolutely go too far.

Um... ;)

That is the only acceptable solution, so long as the friendship isn't ruined forever.

Oh, I can't see that. George and Meredith got over weepy sex. This should be easier. Well, Callie and guilt may cause complications, I imagine. But I think the only thing that would ruin the friendship forever is if KH does become a movie star and leaves the series, as the current rumor holds may happen.

I can't believe that turned into George being the bad guy. AGAIN.

Yeah. It was unreasonable for her not to either tell George about the money, or to object to George needing someone to vet this news with. Though, seriously, George thought a hotel with room service was $400 a week? If he knew breakfast alone was $50 a day?

Take that away and I completely agree with your assessment. It makes her all but unlikeable.

Yeah? The thing I like about Christina is that she does seem to just now be realizing that there are other people on the planet who aren't her, or who aren't there merely to service her needs.

Christina's reaction to seeing him wasn't exactly platonic, nor were we lead to believe in any way that she was not heavily involved with this man. And I don't believe even Christina would be just "having sex" with someone for three years.

But that's exactly how she put it when Burke asked: "I didn't think you'd want to know about every guy I had sex with."

But while I don't believe it's going to happen, I will admit the slight possibility that Christina will confess that the relationship meant nothing to her this ep.

Again, huh. Perhaps I'm misreading the situation, but I already think Christina thought nothing of the relationship.

Technically I suppose that, no, marrying someone under those circumstances is not placating. But to that person, I would suspect it feels a whole lot like placating. And besides, I think it's a matter of semantics.

To a point, I guess. I certainly think placating is a trivial thing, whereas marriage is so much not trivial. But if Christina was so willing to marry just to placate someone, why did she not marry Marlowe? Tha'ts part of why I think it's pretty clear that Burke means far more to her than Marlowe did.

I'm just ready for an ep where Callie doesn't have issues with George period.

They have often been working at cross-purposes.

While both George and Callie have been at fault before, Callie's faults tend to be on a much grander scale.

Not that it's a contest, but I think adultery wins over the rest.

Why does George never get to be the one who tells Callie how it should be?

He has done, like with the thing about why he wouldn't say 'I love you' just because Callie did, but George too still has a lot of that P-A going on, and Callie is a lot more forceful.

Tell me about it. And she calls George's friends weird...

Were it not for the fact that Richard seemed to think living there were a perfectly reasonable option if you aren't the Chief of Surgery...

...nobody wanted it to be a 3 episode arc.

I'd heard Shonda say she didn't want it to be 3 episodes, but I thought for sure she said they'd had it down for two. Either way, it's good to know that the problem was noticed. Maybe it won't be repeated.

Angela

03-22-2007, 07:01 PM

It's a definite you have arrived marker. But after sampling some of the posts, I gotta ask, who is this Donna the one poster thought might have been in the promo?

They're referring to the promo for October Road, and the Donna in question is Laura Prepon, who played Donna in That 70s Show.

Apparently she wrote "I Am a Tree" also, so now I'm embarrassed for not noticing.

Don't be. I don't even remember which ep was "I Am a Tree". First season or second?

I thought towards the end there that we'd gone past the intended mark and were uncomfortably close to 'Buffy and Angel are complete morons' territory for just how much they didn't get what everyone else could see.

Uncomfortably close? I'm thinking they passed that line somewhere before the prom. Then again, as melodrama-lovin' as I tend to be sometimes, I got tired of the angst in season 3 and was well ready to see an end to it all. And this was after season 2, which I adored, with all it's high drama and death. There were more than a few times I wished Angel had stayed dead during season 3.

But then he had to make that tricky U-turn to try to save season five, and, well, no more need be said.

Season 5? I don't know what you're talking about.

That's certainly the expectation. But Addison too isn't above scratching an itch. That's how she and Derek ended up in Seattle in the first place.

I don't know if I'd characterize it as scratching an itch. I think there are a lot of things that factored into her fling with McSteamy--she was lonely, Derek was absent, she needed reassurance, she was trying to get Derek's attention, etc. I'm not trying to condone what she did; it was absolutely wrong, no two ways about it. But I think scratching an itch is oversimplifying. Having a fling with Alex would be scratching an itch. The times she's been with McSteamy in Seattle might be scratching an itch. But not so much the affair in NYC.

Yeah? I pretty much figured M/G was going to happen. I also pretty much figured it wouldn't go well, 'cause that's what happens with those things. But I/G? I won't say it was distasteful as such, what wth my well-known (to me anyway) belief that friends make the best lovers. I just don't see it. Even that lawyer only saw that Izzie wanted her friend back.

I absolutely believe that friends who become more than are more believable than Struck From Across the Room by Cupid's Arrow kinds of things, and my distaste for I/G doesn't have anything to do with their former status as BFFs. At least, I don't think it does. I don't even know why it does. Maybe because I think they're so wrong for each other. And not in the good way. I can't explain it, but I just absolutely hate the idea of the two of them having a romance.

Also, I think I'd like it if just once, a series did a guy/gal friendship without it turning into TwueWuv4EVAH!.

And maybe I do know why. Maybe I just loved and treasured their friendship so much, and I can't help but fear that this is going to change that dynamic forever.

But I think the only thing that would ruin the friendship forever is if KH does become a movie star and leaves the series, as the current rumor holds may happen.

I hope you're right. And while I wish KH only the best, I'm hoping Izzie sticks with Seattle Grace for at least a couple more years.

Though, seriously, George thought a hotel with room service was $400 a week? If he knew breakfast alone was $50 a day?

But wasn't that how George realized something was rotten in Denmark last week? I thought his seeing the breakfast bill was what tipped him off.

Yeah? The thing I like about Christina is that she does seem to just now be realizing that there are other people on the planet who aren't her, or who aren't there merely to service her needs.

I loved her when she was first realizing that. But that was two seasons ago, and it doesn't feel so new and refreshing now. Of course, I'd be mega-unhappy if they changed her into Happy Funtime Christina Who Loves Everyone, so I suppose I shouldn't complain.

But that's exactly how she put it when Burke asked: "I didn't think you'd want to know about every guy I had sex with."

I thought she just said that as a way of throwing Burke off. Her demeanor and actions when confronted with Marlowe didn't make it seem like he was just a guy she had sex with, to me anyway.

Again, huh. Perhaps I'm misreading the situation, but I already think Christina thought nothing of the relationship.

I totally didn't get that, so maybe I'm the one who's misreading. But even if you take away her reaction to him, I still don't see how three years in a sexual relationship can mean nothing.

Tha'ts part of why I think it's pretty clear that Burke means far more to her than Marlowe did.

Oh, I don't disagree with you at all there. I definitely think Burke means more, which is why she agreed to marry him. I'm just not sure that she really wants to get married herself.

Not that it's a contest, but I think adultery wins over the rest.

Fair point, and one that I think has been shamefully overlooked in fandom's reaction to last week.

I had more, but I'm leaving my job now...

argel

03-23-2007, 05:00 PM

I think I must be the only person in the whole world who is over-the-moon happy about the last couple of episodes.

Well, over-the-moon happy, and also kind of heartbroken because George and Izzie intend to just try to pretend it never happened. :(

(But so, so happy!!!)

Feel free to flame now. ;)

***argel***

SamIAm

03-23-2007, 07:54 PM

They're referring to the promo for October Road, and the Donna in question is Laura Prepon, who played Donna in That 70s Show.

Um, duh. Okay, got it.

I don't even remember which ep was "I Am a Tree". First season or second?

Actually, I was wrong again. It was "Sometimes a Fantasy", the third episode this season. That's the one where Izzie first went back to SGH and stood outside all day. I think it's the one with FeelNoPainGirl too.

Uncomfortably close?

I was being kind. Unwarranted, I know.

There were more than a few times I wished Angel had stayed dead during season 3.

I think the problem was Angel was intended to be a mid-season replacement, but then the WB had the idea to make it a new fall show. So Cordy's Buffy story ended up way too early, and Angel's got dragged out way too long. Or such is my belief at any rate.

Season 5? I don't know what you're talking about.

Exactly. Have you ever noticed that season five is a death knell for a lot of shows, even if they don't end?

I think there are a lot of things that factored into her fling with McSteamy--she was lonely, Derek was absent, she needed reassurance, she was trying to get Derek's attention, etc.

Well, yeah, I agree. But it's true that Mark's has the man-whoreishness, but Addison isn't a shrinking violet either. And, well, after last night, I fear AlAddison may be back on. At least in an itch-scratching way.

And maybe I do know why. Maybe I just loved and treasured their friendship so much, and I can't help but fear that this is going to change that dynamic forever.

Maybe if it were later in the series' run, I could join in argel's joy, but it's just too soon TV-wise for the BBF --> TwueWuv4Evah conversion. But I hope at least they can get back to where they were. Though it's a secret we can never talk about? Not gonna work. And all that talk last night of moving forward...

I hope you're right. And while I wish KH only the best, I'm hoping Izzie sticks with Seattle Grace for at least a couple more years.

Yeah, me too, even though I could understand why she'd want to go with movies; less work, more money. Can't argue with that.

But wasn't that how George realized something was rotten in Denmark last week? I thought his seeing the breakfast bill was what tipped him off.

Yes. Still, how naive would you have to be? I mean, I've never seen a mini-bar in a hotel I've been in, but still I know a pack of macadamia nuts is going to run $10, and forget a room-service cheeseburger for less than $20.

But that was two seasons ago, and it doesn't feel so new and refreshing now. Of course, I'd be mega-unhappy if they changed her into Happy Funtime Christina Who Loves Everyone, so I suppose I shouldn't complain.

There is a be careful what you wish for aspect, but really it was just late last season she'd come to realize she would jeopardize her career to help someone else. And no matter; Marlowe was before she'd come to that conclusion.

I thought she just said that as a way of throwing Burke off. Her demeanor and actions when confronted with Marlowe didn't make it seem like he was just a guy she had sex with, to me anyway.

All I got was she wasn't terribly thrilled he was there at all.

...I still don't see how three years in a sexual relationship can mean nothing.

Three years of meaningless sex with one guy isn't a lot different than Meredith's "X" years of meaningless sex with "Y" guys.

I definitely think Burke means more, which is why she agreed to marry him.

This is all I'm saying.

I'm just not sure that she really wants to get married herself.

Until last night, I don't think she did either, but I also don't think she was willing to marry Burke just to shut him up. Unlike when she moved in with Burke, which was just to shut him up.

Fair point, and one that I think has been shamefully overlooked in fandom's reaction to last week.

Yeah, kinda wondering why. Callie's got her faults, but she does love George. More than he her? Time will tell, I guess.

I think I must be the only person in the whole world who is over-the-moon happy about the last couple of episodes.

In the sense that I think Grey's Anatomy is back after a couple of episodes of bringing the suck, I'm pretty happy too.

Well, over-the-moon happy, and also kind of heartbroken because George and Izzie intend to just try to pretend it never happened. :(

Timing is way off.

Feel free to flame now. ;)

There's no flamethower, so :9mm:

Kidding. Like I said, if it were later in the series' run, I'd be okay with it. But this is just gonna bring pain and "complications which are freakin' everywhere". (Gotta love Izzie.)

Angela

03-26-2007, 12:03 AM

I think the problem was Angel was intended to be a mid-season replacement, but then the WB had the idea to make it a new fall show. So Cordy's Buffy story ended up way too early, and Angel's got dragged out way too long. Or such is my belief at any rate.

You hit that nail way on the head. It was season 3 of BtVS that made me really really not care for B/A because it just dragged on waaaaaaay too long.

And, well, after last night, I fear AlAddison may be back on. At least in an itch-scratching way.

I figure they'll go one of two ways. Either they'll keep hinting that perhaps there are Deeper Feelings there as a sop to raised hopes and 'shippers, or they'll have a one-night stand right before she goes to LA as a sop to raised hopes and 'shippers. Or there's a third option that I favor, which is that comment Jane Doe made was more to build the closeness of that relationship than to hint at Alex/Addison.

Maybe if it were later in the series' run, I could join in argel's joy, but it's just too soon TV-wise for the BBF --> TwueWuv4Evah conversion. But I hope at least they can get back to where they were. Though it's a secret we can never talk about? Not gonna work. And all that talk last night of moving forward...

Well, I don't know where I want them to go now. I am by no means a George/Izzie 'shipper, but I will say that both TRK and KH really sold me on the idea that maybe these two have had a little well-hidden and probably unrealized deeper feelings for each other. And I didn't think that was possible. I don't want to see them rushing into anything, but I think I am open to the idea of a relationship somewhere in the far and distant future, so long as both of them are single.

Yes. Still, how naive would you have to be? I mean, I've never seen a mini-bar in a hotel I've been in, but still I know a pack of macadamia nuts is going to run $10, and forget a room-service cheeseburger for less than $20.

Not only is George particularly naive about many, many things, he's also had a lot more on his mind than speculation about how much his room service tab is running. What with his dad's death, his family's grief and mourning, funeral details, and a new quickie wedding, I'd say he's probably not been in normal head space of late. And given that, I can believe he didn't think about the cost of his current living until he happened to glance at a receipt.

Three years of meaningless sex with one guy isn't a lot different than Meredith's "X" years of meaningless sex with "Y" guys.

And here's where we agree to disagree, because by nature three years in a committed relationship to me would mean a world of difference than any number of years with meaningless one night stands. I don't think you can be with the same person for three years and it not be a meaningful significant relationship. Unless, of course, it turns out Christina is also one of the Final Five, in which case I waive all claims that she'd have human feelings. ;)

Until last night, I don't think she did either, but I also don't think she was willing to marry Burke just to shut him up. Unlike when she moved in with Burke, which was just to shut him up.

There's a difference between marrying someone because you want to shut them up and marrying them because you really want to marry them. I think it's entirely possible that Christina may have decided, "Hey, I can see how important this is to Burke. I will marry him because I love him, and because this means something to him." Not necessarily because it meant something to her, but not just to shut him up either.

Yeah, kinda wondering why. Callie's got her faults, but she does love George. More than he her? Time will tell, I guess.

I guess it's not such a huge surprise, especially given that the show's first and foremost relationship started out as adultery. Plus, for many people, Callie is still considered a secondary character. For me personally, I'd have to say that, while I like her, I still consider the original cast the primary characters, and I tend to care more about them.

I think I must be the only person in the whole world who is over-the-moon happy about the last couple of episodes.

I won't say I'm over-the-moon, but I will say I did not hate the George/Izzie like I originally anticipated. Like I said, the actors really sold me on the possibility, and I will admit I'm kind sorta looking forward to seeing how this plays out.

What I do hate? The name "Gizzie". Because....ugh.

Well, over-the-moon happy, and also kind of heartbroken because George and Izzie intend to just try to pretend it never happened.

This being Seattle Grace (and Grey's Anatomy), we do know this isn't going to happen, right? There's no WAY they're going to keep this a secret long. I'm just hoping their friendship isn't destroyed in the fallout.

SamIAm

03-28-2007, 10:51 AM

Oh, my, twice in the last three weeks (http://www.journalfen.net/community/fandom_wank/1066440.html). George and Izzie have polarized the fans.

You hit that nail way on the head. It was season 3 of BtVS that made me really really not care for B/A because it just dragged on waaaaaaay too long.

Yeah, too much of a thing that wasn't really that good to begin with. ;)

Or there's a third option that I favor, which is that comment Jane Doe made was more to build the closeness of that relationship than to hint at Alex/Addison.

So as not to beat the poor A/A horse any more than it already has been, I'll just say I hope this option is the winning one.

I am by no means a George/Izzie 'shipper, but I will say that both TRK and KH really sold me on the idea that maybe these two have had a little well-hidden and probably unrealized deeper feelings for each other.

Behold the power of good writing and much acting talent. ;)

Yeah, I can accept that at some point in the BFF-->TwueWuv conversion, to paraphrase Debora Cahn, there has to be a realization that you're already in the best relationship you're ever going to have. And I can accept that maybe Izzie's feeling that, and George may be realizing he's made a mistake with the marriage thing and possibly Izzie is the one. But the timing is still off and will be for a while, I'd think.

I don't think you can be with the same person for three years and it not be a meaningful significant relationship.

Well, lots of people seem to manage it, or at least manage to spend a lot of time in a relationship that isn't what they think it is.

Unless, of course, it turns out Christina is also one of the Final Five...

Starbuck's got that covered. But Sandra Oh as a Cylon? Juicy. ;)

Not necessarily because it meant something to her, but not just to shut him up either.

This is all I'm saying.

For me personally, I'd have to say that, while I like her, I still consider the original cast the primary characters, and I tend to care more about them.

Yeah, that's true. But I'm not happy that Callie's world is going to come crashing in on her, despite her faults. I also really don't want to lose Sara Ramirez.

Angela

03-29-2007, 12:10 AM

Oh, my, twice in the last three weeks (http://www.journalfen.net/community/fandom_wank/1066440.html). George and Izzie have polarized the fans.

So, you know, at least that storyline accomplished something.

So as not to beat the poor A/A horse any more than it already has been, I'll just say I hope this option is the winning one.

That horse deserves every beating it gets, dead or no. But I guess we can leave the rest as already said. In triplicate. :)

Behold the power of good writing and much acting talent.

It's amazing what can happen when those two things come together, innit?

But the timing is still off and will be for a while, I'd think.

Oh, definitely. Therein lies the whopping good drama. And as much as I hated the idea, I must admit I am looking forward to seeing where this goes. A hint here, a sigh there...such is the foundation of good subtext. Or, at least, concealed text. Now if it drags on for 18 seasons with nothing more than a hint and a sigh, I'll be long tired of it. But for now I'm content to watch and wait.

(But please don't believe this has caused me to forget Alex/Izzie. They're still my endgame 'ship.)

Well, lots of people seem to manage it, or at least manage to spend a lot of time in a relationship that isn't what they think it is.

Do they really? Three year, exclusive relationship, and it's considered casual or meaningless? I think my smalltown upbringing may be at fault, but I truly cannot imagine this.

Starbuck's got that covered. But Sandra Oh as a Cylon? Juicy.

Now now now. I refuse to conceded that Starbuck is a Cylon until she starts humming "All Along the Watchtower" or wakes up in a tub of goo. Until then, it's still questionable at the very least. :)

However I will admit that Sandra Oh would make a totally awesome skinjob. She could give Six a run for her money.

This is all I'm saying.

So....we've been discussing this from every angle for the last howeverlong only to find out that basically we agree?

Yeah, that sounds about right. Heh.

Yeah, that's true. But I'm not happy that Callie's world is going to come crashing in on her, despite her faults. I also really don't want to lose Sara Ramirez.

I don't think we'll lose SR. If anything, I think we'll see more of her. This situation is just the kind of soapy bubbles the GA PTBs love to blow, so we'll probably be seeing all three of them more rather than less.

Which is quite all right for me. Less time for Meredith and McDreamy means less chance for them to start annoying me again.

Angela

04-20-2007, 12:09 AM

Know what I hate? More than posting after myself, that is. ;) I hate when I am bound and determined to hate a relationship and yet within the space of two eps find myself....not exactly rooting for it, but pretty much okay with it nonetheless. And that's how I feel about George/Izzie now. (Note: I will never ever ever call it "Gizzie".) KH and TRK have really sold me on this. Yeah, yeah, I know George way overstepped his boundaries by barging in on Izzie's procedure, but for him to do something so OOC in this case just demonstrated how much he cares, truly deeply *cares*, about Izzie. I like these two separately, and I'm terribly horribly afraid I'm starting to like them together.

Which means pregnant Callie creates quite a situation, and can anyone looking at the way she was made up tonight deny there's something more wrong with her than going a couple days without sleep?

McDreamy reverts to utter jerkitude, joined by an even jerkier Chief. I couldn't believe either one of them tonight using Meredith as an excuse for Derek's career problems. Ugh. I hated that. Much as I hated Marlowe and his seed-of-doubt planting there at the end. Sometimes on this show men just plain suck. No offense, Terry. ;)

SamIAm

04-20-2007, 12:40 PM

CAROL!

Know what I hate?

Sanjaya?

More than posting after myself, that is. ;)

Been there, done that.

I hate when I am bound and determined to hate a relationship and yet within the space of two eps find myself....not exactly rooting for it, but pretty much okay with it nonetheless. ... KH and TRK have really sold me on this.

Yeah, I can't say I'm rabid 'shipper guy, but they do such good work. Maybe it helps that they're friends IRL, but whatever it is, they do it well. Still, Callie really doesn't deserve this. No one deserves this.

Yeah, yeah, I know George way overstepped his boundaries by barging in on Izzie's procedure, but for him to do something so OOC in this case just demonstrated how much he cares, truly deeply *cares*, about Izzie.

OOC? I dunno; George and Izzie have a history of overstepping, I think.

But Bailey abso-freakin'-lutley rules all. I know, not news, but still needed to be said.

Which means pregnant Callie creates quite a situation...

Callie did look pretty rough, and it's not like it's even possible that this was the first time she'd gone a couple of days without sleep, so yeah, it'd seem there's definitely more there than fatigue.

McDreamy reverts to utter jerkitude, joined by an even jerkier Chief.

McDrippy, yeah, I whole-heartedly agree with you. The Chief? Well, with reservations. People tend to see a situation through the filter of their own experience. The Chief sees the job as being the cause of the damage to his personal life, and out of a misplaced sense of duty, wants to spare Meredith and Derek the same outcome. That said, it was the Chief's devotion to the job that caused his problems, especially after the marriage had already taken a severe Ellis Grey-sized hit. So yeah, Webber is still dancing around and avoiding what his real problem is, but I can't agree he's nothing but a jerk.

Much as I hated Marlowe and his seed-of-doubt planting there at the end.

Marlowe was prime quality ass. I do believe he'd give House a run in the race for biggest ass who is also a doctor.

Sometimes on this show men just plain suck. No offense, Terry. ;)

I'd say overall there's equal opportunity suckage, so no offense taken.

I would laugh at the Chief's pathetic attempts at flirting, but he's James Bond compared to me, so I won't.

I assume the marrow donor died in a car accident on his way to sign the papers to be a marrow donor, and until then had not consented to be a donor, and when he died, his family refused permission. Because otherwise, the donor dying would mean even more marrow for Hannah, not less.

Also, Googling "bone marrow donor" (http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/bone-marrow/CA00047) tells me that actually drilling into the bone to harvest marrow is so last Tuesday. But it still hurts to be a donor, so there's that.

Alex gets yelled at enough for being a jerk, so it sucks he's getting yelled at for not being a jerk. The NotMom was a real coward there. OTOH, they shouldn't have been in that position. Oh, if only there were a test that could be done to positively establish a familial relationship rather than having to rely on whether or not a person had an operation common to millions of people. A test that would identify common genetic markers, perhaps. Maybe some day...

Am I mistaken, or was Sloan actually, you know, funny? Sure, still pretty much rude, crude, and socially unacceptable, but also funny.

I like that FakeMom is trying to establish a connection with Meredith, and that she finally called Meredith on her 'tude, but shouldn't Thatcher be making an effort too, especially now that Ellis is out of the picture?

Did I mention CAROL!? 'Cause CAROL! was on the show. ;)

Angela

04-20-2007, 09:38 PM

CAROL!

Dude, do you know how long it took me to realize who it was? Minutes, at least. I kept thinking, "I know I know her, and I know I like her...so who is it?" Then I realized, and squealed happily.

Sanjaya?

Much as I wanted him to leave, I ended up feeling sorry for the poor kid. So no, no hating from me this week. Not towards him, anyway.

Yeah, I can't say I'm rabid 'shipper guy, but they do such good work. Maybe it helps that they're friends IRL, but whatever it is, they do it well. Still, Callie really doesn't deserve this. No one deserves this.

They do have such lovely chemistry. And yeah, my head knows that they're wrong wrong WRONG, and that no good can come of this, and that Callie is the victim and they are oh so WRONG. But my heart gave a happy sigh nonetheless every time they were together on screen. I can't decide if I'm going to end up loving this storyline, hating this storyline, or maybe just loving to hate it. Either way, it makes for compelling viewing.

OOC? I dunno; George and Izzie have a history of overstepping, I think.

There's overstepping, and then there's running into a medical procedure for which you clearly received no invitation and standing up to both Bailey and Izzie to do it. And then basically telling Bailey to skedaddle. That he was willing to do all that was a clear indicator to me that there's some deep deep feelin' in them thar hills.

But Bailey abso-freakin'-lutley rules all. I know, not news, but still needed to be said.

You think she can't rock any harder, and then she tops herself again. Her compassion, her understanding, her willingness to clear her schedule to hold Izzie's hand...I really think I may love Bailey the most.

Callie did look pretty rough, and it's not like it's even possible that this was the first time she'd gone a couple of days without sleep, so yeah, it'd seem there's definitely more there than fatigue.

Either she's pregnant or there's something seriously wrong with her. Either way I figure it's plot device ex machina to up the ante in the Izzie/George/Callie triangle.

McDrippy, yeah, I whole-heartedly agree with you. The Chief? Well, with reservations. People tend to see a situation through the filter of their own experience. The Chief sees the job as being the cause of the damage to his personal life, and out of a misplaced sense of duty, wants to spare Meredith and Derek the same outcome. That said, it was the Chief's devotion to the job that caused his problems, especially after the marriage had already taken a severe Ellis Grey-sized hit. So yeah, Webber is still dancing around and avoiding what his real problem is, but I can't agree he's nothing but a jerk.

I'm not saying he's nothing but a jerk. But I am saying he's completely wrong in what he's doing. Ethically and legally. He can't keep McDrippy out of the running for a job that was basically offered to him in order to protect Meredith. It's not the Chief's place, and I'd be saying that even if he were her actual father and not just her mother's lover. It's not fair to Meredith because (a) she didn't ask for that and (b) McDrippy will almost certainly end up resenting both her and the Chief for it. And it's certainly not fair to McDrippy to have his actual career hindered because of who he's dating. And that's not even getting into the legal ramifications of denying someone career advancement for such a cause. I just can't believe the Chief is foolish enough to believe such a thing, or to verbalize it to Derek. This seems more OOC than George running into Procedure Room A.

Marlowe was prime quality ass. I do believe he'd give House a run in the race for biggest ass who is also a doctor.

Oh, I think he'd leave House in the dirt. House at least has some redeeming qualities, and appears to have maintained a few relationships over the years. I'd be surprised if Marlowe can keep a lawn guy longer than six months.

I'd say overall there's equal opportunity suckage, so no offense taken.

On this show? I'd say for the better part of the first two seasons at least the women had a prime representative in the title character. Running neck and neck with her sometimes significant other, I might add. For the most part, equal for sure.

I would laugh at the Chief's pathetic attempts at flirting, but he's James Bond compared to me, so I won't.

I really wanted him and Carol to hit it off, but closing with his dance with Addison was fun too.

But it still hurts to be a donor, so there's that.

Heh. That was really all I got out of the ep anyway. Heck, it took three viewings to realize that was what George said when he came in the room with Izzie. (No, of course I didn't keep rewatching the George/Izzie parts. Why do you ask? ;) )

A test that would identify common genetic markers, perhaps. Maybe some day...

Ooooh, they need Grissom to come on sabbatical again and teach them a couple of classes.

I can't decide if I like new Alex to be new Alex quite so much. A little more old Alex would be nice. The "raised by wolves" comment was old Alex.

Am I mistaken, or was Sloan actually, you know, funny? Sure, still pretty much rude, crude, and socially unacceptable, but also funny.

He was very funny, and he was actually a pretty good wingman. Maybe he's taking the place of old Alex? He's basically what old Alex would have become...

I like that FakeMom is trying to establish a connection with Meredith, and that she finally called Meredith on her 'tude, but shouldn't Thatcher be making an effort too, especially now that Ellis is out of the picture?

I try hard to feel sorry for Thatcher, but I really just can't. No matter what kind of excuses Susan makes or how she tries to take the blame, he was still Meredith's dad, and he still abandoned her, and seemingly just picked up a new family to take her place. Unacceptable and unexcusable, and I haven't seen any real remorse on his part yet. A little gentle regret, maybe, but nothing that seems to have much of an impression.

Did I mention CAROL!? 'Cause CAROL! was on the show. ;)

You did, but I don't mind if you do it again. Cause, dude, Carol. :)

SamIAm

04-23-2007, 02:02 PM

Dude, do you know how long it took me to realize who it was? Minutes, at least.

I stopped the TiVo to jump back and look again. But seeing the episode was directed by Christopher Misiano already had me in a TWW frame of mind. I think it's the first time I've ever seen Melissa Fitzgerald not in TWW.

Much as I wanted him to leave, I ended up feeling sorry for the poor kid.

Ah. I'd just heard that Sanjaya was ruining AI for ever and ever and ever, so I took a shot.

I can't decide if I'm going to end up loving this storyline, hating this storyline, or maybe just loving to hate it. Either way, it makes for compelling viewing.

It does that, indeed. I like the story so far, but I agree, too soon to call. It's interesting that Stacy McKee in the GA blog spoke about the same "George/Izzie - Yay -- Wait, Callie!" dilemma. At least I hope that means the writers knows what they have set in motion.

There's overstepping, and then there's running into a medical procedure for which you clearly received no invitation and standing up to both Bailey and Izzie to do it.

Yeah, but that's George when he gets his back up. Actually, Bailey's the last one he has stood up to, I think, unless you count the big delivery scene. McDrippy maybe, but he doesn't have much to do with McDrippy. Huh. I just realized that. I wonder what that's all about? Or am I blocking?

I really think I may love Bailey the most.

I do not find it hard to understand why most everyone comes to her to be a sounding board.

Either she's pregnant or there's something seriously wrong with her. Either way I figure it's plot device ex machina to up the ante in the Izzie/George/Callie triangle.

Maybe she's going to fall on a piece of rebar. ;)

Callie looked pretty good in the preview for next week, though saying someone on GA looked pretty good means nothing, I suppose. I hope they don't think they need to ratchet up the drama to make this work. I think the people who'll get it already do, and the people whose only concern is who swaps spit with whom never will.

But I am saying he's completely wrong in what he's doing.

True.

And it's certainly not fair to McDrippy to have his actual career hindered because of who he's dating.

Ah. See, here's the rub. It certainly is fair that it impacts his career because who he is dating is a subordinate, and as bad as that may be now, it's going to be worse if Derek is in an even higher position of authority. If Webber had made his case on that basis to McDrippy and Burke, then I'd be fine with the notion that who they're dating impacts their career.

Of course, as Webber already offered the job lock, stock, and barrel to Burke, that's obviously not in play. The question then becomes, is it a Webber flaw or a series flaw? Or a bit of both? I mean, even Bailey put it in terms of the lady or the job because of love, as opposed to because of loss of morale that the CoS is sleeping with an intern.

I just can't believe the Chief is foolish enough to believe such a thing, or to verbalize it to Derek. This seems more OOC than George running into Procedure Room A.

But it's Webber. (And GA.) He's been running the department (and the hospital, I guess, though there's usually a different person who does that) more with his heart than his head for three years now. Most salient case in point I can recall is when he wouldn't let Cristina tell him who cut the LVAD wire.

I'd be surprised if Marlowe can keep a lawn guy longer than six months.

Well, Cristina... But you're right. At least House is amusing when he's being a jerk.

I really wanted him and Carol to hit it off, but closing with his dance with Addison was fun too.

Oh, regular doses of CAROL! would be awesome, even if it isn't really CAROL!. The dancing with Addison thing... Hmm, I wonder.

I was hoping to see Webber step down for - a job in the clinic, maybe? - and use his new-found free time to woo Adele, but I guess that isn't going to happen. Not this season, anyway.

(No, of course I didn't keep rewatching the George/Izzie parts. Why do you ask?)

:)

I can't decide if I like new Alex to be new Alex quite so much. A little more old Alex would be nice. The "raised by wolves" comment was old Alex.

I think they do okay balancing new and old Alex, so far at least. As long as they don't ever make him into milquetoast boy. Or Superman.

He was very funny, and he was actually a pretty good wingman.

Eric Dane does do a great SEG, as when Webber finally sussed out why Sloan wanted to be his wingman.

Maybe he's taking the place of old Alex?

So you're seeing Sloane and Izzie? Slizzie, I guess.

(I kid. No rocks, please.)

I try hard to feel sorry for Thatcher, but I really just can't.

I cut him some slack after meeting the real Ellis Grey, but it's gone by now. As is Ellis, so you know, way, way past time to buck up there, Thatcher.

You did, but I don't mind if you do it again. Cause, dude, Carol.

No, CAROL! ;)

Angela

04-24-2007, 12:18 AM

I stopped the TiVo to jump back and look again. But seeing the episode was directed by Christopher Misiano already had me in a TWW frame of mind. I think it's the first time I've ever seen Melissa Fitzgerald not in TWW.

Me too, although I could have sworn I'd seen her on an episode of Friends. I suppose, having seen both Ainsley and Margaret there, I just assumed that was where West Wingers got their start.

Ah. I'd just heard that Sanjaya was ruining AI for ever and ever and ever, so I took a shot.

I don't know if I'd say he was ruining it forever and ever, but I've heard rumors that, ratings behomoth or no, the numbers have been slipping this year.

It does that, indeed. I like the story so far, but I agree, too soon to call. It's interesting that Stacy McKee in the GA blog spoke about the same "George/Izzie - Yay -- Wait, Callie!" dilemma. At least I hope that means the writers knows what they have set in motion.

At least one of them does. I think Shonda is a little too caught up in her own creation sometimes, as I guess all show creators do. But instead of taking herself too seriously (a la Sorkin) or believing herself a God (*cough*Whedon*cough*), Shonda seems to be her own squeeing fangirl. I think that she herself loves her characters so much that she can't imagine any of them doing anything irredeemable. Hence, we get stuff like Derek dangling both Addison and Meredith like puppets for the better part of a season, Meredith whining about "pick me", and Izzie cutting an LVAD wire.

Yeah, but that's George when he gets his back up. Actually, Bailey's the last one he has stood up to, I think, unless you count the big delivery scene.

But when has George ever stood up to Bailey before? Seriously stood up to her, and not even with the half-puppy dog/half-serious stance he normally takes. I can't remember him ever telling her anything nearly as strong and as absolutely uncaring about her reaction as his "Make me".

McDrippy maybe, but he doesn't have much to do with McDrippy. Huh. I just realized that. I wonder what that's all about? Or am I blocking?

Well, they were quarantined together at one point. They had some kind of meaningful talk that ended up with telling someone you love them "soonish", but the details escape me. I would guess George's early crush on Meredith would have prevented there from being much bonding.

I do not find it hard to understand why most everyone comes to her to be a sounding board.

She'd make a great school principal, too. Just the right amount of love and discipline.

Maybe she's going to fall on a piece of rebar.

Wile E. Calliope? Wouldn't surprise me a bit. ;)

I think the people who'll get it already do, and the people whose only concern is who swaps spit with whom never will.

Truer words were never spoken. And you know there were some people who judged the storyline as soon they heard the characters involved.

Ah. See, here's the rub. It certainly is fair that it impacts his career because who he is dating is a subordinate, and as bad as that may be now, it's going to be worse if Derek is in an even higher position of authority. If Webber had made his case on that basis to McDrippy and Burke, then I'd be fine with the notion that who they're dating impacts their career.

But that's totally not the way it was presented. It was presented as Webber having made a promise of a personal nature to Ellis. It's not Webber looking out for hospital staff or patients or even morale. It's Webber looking out for Meredith, protecting her feelings (and hers alone) by keeping McDreamy emotionally available for her by not allowing him to get caught up in his job as CoS.

Of course, as Webber already offered the job lock, stock, and barrel to Burke, that's obviously not in play. The question then becomes, is it a Webber flaw or a series flaw? Or a bit of both? I mean, even Bailey put it in terms of the lady or the job because of love, as opposed to because of loss of morale that the CoS is sleeping with an intern.

Well, I don't think Bailey knew it had been couched in quite such definite terms by Webber. I'd like to think if Derek told Bailey that the Chief came right out and said he couldn't have the job because of Meredith, she'd have been properly horrified. In terms of that conversation, that was just convenient to the plot. As to the rest, I think both the show's writers and Webber are both at fault. Webber for saying such a thing, and the writers for thinking it's plausible.

But it's Webber. (And GA.) He's been running the department (and the hospital, I guess, though there's usually a different person who does that) more with his heart than his head for three years now. Most salient case in point I can recall is when he wouldn't let Cristina tell him who cut the LVAD wire.

I suppose you're right. But for me personally, nothing the Chief has done up until this point has seemed so OOC and overly sentimental (ooey gooey sentimental, at that) as what he did to Derek. Nothing else has taken me out of the show like that conversation did.

Well, nothing that the Chief has said or done, anyway.

Oh, regular doses of CAROL! would be awesome, even if it isn't really CAROL!. The dancing with Addison thing... Hmm, I wonder.

If memory serves, we've only got, what, three more eps to see the Chief and Addison jitterbugging around Joe's?....?

And since Carol...I'm sorry, CAROL!...appears to work at the hospital, I can certainly hope that we'll see her again. I'm guessing you might not be displeased either. ;)

As long as they don't ever make him into milquetoast boy. Or Superman.

With Ava/Shannon around, there's potential for one or both. But it looks like they're going with a little *Alex/Addison instead. Which disappoints me, but hopefully it will at least be just scratching an itch. It certainly can't be any kind of longterm thing.*

Eric Dane does do a great SEG, as when Webber finally sussed out why Sloan wanted to be his wingman.

SEG?

So you're seeing Sloane and Izzie? Slizzie, I guess.

(I kid. No rocks, please.)

Well, it's not pretty, but it's better than Gizzie.

While it wouldn't be my ideal relationship for either one of the, I did like their dynamic in the ep where Izzie refused to get him coffee and he had her brought in to the OR afterwards. Nice.

I cut him some slack after meeting the real Ellis Grey, but it's gone by now. As is Ellis, so you know, way, way past time to buck up there, Thatcher.

When he mistakenly remembered Molly in Meredith's place, I lost all patience with him. And then hiding out in the laundry room...? That's just sad.

No, CAROL! ;)

I give, I give...CAROL!!!

SamIAm

04-24-2007, 01:15 PM

Me too, although I could have sworn I'd seen her on an episode of Friends.

Her iMDB entry doesn't list Friends. Some production work though, so maybe she just dabbles as an actor.

At least one of them does. I think Shonda is a little too caught up in her own creation sometimes, as I guess all show creators do.

Probably hard not to.

Hence, we get stuff like Derek dangling both Addison and Meredith like puppets for the better part of a season, Meredith whining about "pick me", and Izzie cutting an LVAD wire.

Well, other than the LVAD wire or Burke's hand tremor, no one's done anything prison-sentence worthy. And Burke was probably more unethical than criminal. Which only leaves the LVAD wire, and I'm not a lawyer, so I have an out. ;)

But when has George ever stood up to Bailey before?

I agree, this would be the first time with Bailey. But he's stood up to most of the others before. Like with Addison when Bex showed up. In everything there has to be a first time. I don't mean to say it it deprecates his Izzie-related feelings any, but I also don't think it's out of character for him.

Well, they were quarantined together at one point.

Oh, right. I remember that. I thought it was kind of nonsensical, now you mention it.

She'd make a great school principal, too. Just the right amount of love and discipline.

And an awesome parent. As well as Supreme Dictator and Ruler of the Universe. :)

But that's totally not the way it was presented.

No, I know. That's why I have a problem with Webber's version of why Derek's SO matters, but not with the notion that Derek's SO does matter.

As to the rest, I think both the show's writers and Webber are both at fault. Webber for saying such a thing, and the writers for thinking it's plausible.

Probably right.

If memory serves, we've only got, what, three more eps to see the Chief and Addison jitterbugging around Joe's?....?

I guess it depends. The big Addison episode is May 3, so if she leaves after that, then it's only two.

And since Carol...I'm sorry, CAROL!...appears to work at the hospital, I can certainly hope that we'll see her again. I'm guessing you might not be displeased either. ;)

Well, if we're not going to get the spinoff where CJ, Danny, Charlie, and CAROL! take that billionaire's money and go save the world, this is fine.

But it looks like they're going with a little *Alex/Addison instead. ...*

Yeah, I figured. Shame.

SEG?

A Grin of the Feces-Eating variety. You have to substitute another word for feces. One that begins with S.

When he mistakenly remembered Molly in Meredith's place, I lost all patience with him. And then hiding out in the laundry room...? That's just sad.

I'm kind of puzzled here too, 'cause Stacy McKee mentioned Thatcher in terms that made it sound like they think Thatcher is becoming a part of Meredith's life. (Direct quote, even.) But... Well, I don't get it.

So, apparently Shonda's divvied up the work. Krista Vernhoff gets GA, and Marti gets the spinoff (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3iaf82321e51c9ae09502500aa22c2fd5a).

Angela

04-25-2007, 12:30 AM

Her iMDB entry doesn't list Friends. Some production work though, so maybe she just dabbles as an actor.

If her dabbling happens to include a recurring role on GA, I'm a happy camper.

Well, other than the LVAD wire or Burke's hand tremor, no one's done anything prison-sentence worthy. And Burke was probably more unethical than criminal. Which only leaves the LVAD wire, and I'm not a lawyer, so I have an out. ;)

Oh, I'm not talking strictly about things that are illegal. I'm talking about being so blinded by love for your own creations that you put them in situations where the audience may not find them redeemable because you cannot imagine everyone not loving them as much as you do. Such as the LVAD wire, which seems to have turned a portion of the fandom irrevocably into "I hate Izzie" territory. Then again, I thought I'd never be able to stomach Meredith or McDrippy, and I seem to have been proved at least half wrong there. Maybe the audience will eventually come around on Izzie too.

I don't mean to say it it deprecates his Izzie-related feelings any, but I also don't think it's out of character for him.

I persist in believing that it's just OOC enough to show the depth of his feelings for Izzie, platonic or otherwise. But it's possibly I am no longer completely unbiased in regards to this relationship. ;)

And an awesome parent. As well as Supreme Dictator and Ruler of the Universe. :)

Or just Queen of the World. It's a position I once aspired to.

No, I know. That's why I have a problem with Webber's version of why Derek's SO matters, but not with the notion that Derek's SO does matter.

I think that's probably true, although truly I find the idea uncomfortable even in the latter case. Choosing someone for that level of authority based even partially on who they're dating just seems wrong. Even the idea that it's his choosing of a subordinate that makes him ineligible doesn't fly, because (as you said) the Chief was ready to give the job to Burke. But it's just horrible if he's doing it to protect Meredith's feelings.

I guess it depends. The big Addison episode is May 3, so if she leaves after that, then it's only two.

I realized that tonight when I was checking out my TiVO. That really means we have only one ep, since I don't see her hanging around for much of the May 3rd ep. I figure she'll be winging her way to sunny California before the second commercial break. Maybe even the first.

Well, if we're not going to get the spinoff where CJ, Danny, Charlie, and CAROL! take that billionaire's money and go save the world, this is fine.

Oooh, I like that spinoff. Let's merge it with the one where Josh and Sam take on all the evil politicos and it'll be just perfect!

I'm kind of puzzled here too, 'cause Stacy McKee mentioned Thatcher in terms that made it sound like they think Thatcher is becoming a part of Meredith's life. (Direct quote, even.) But... Well, I don't get it.

I am by no means a spoiler 'ho for this show, but I do believe I've heard that perhaps circumstances may force Thatcher into closer proximity to Meredith. Vague rumor at best, so take that with a grain of salt.

So, apparently Shonda's divvied up the work. Krista Vernhoff gets GA, and Marti gets the spinoff (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3iaf82321e51c9ae09502500aa22c2fd5a).

.....

My level of faith in Marti's ability to pull off a show is warring sharply with my desire to keep up with Addison.

ETA: Did you see? We're all grown up (http://www.journalfen.net/community/fandom_wank/1076104.html). AGAIN.

SamIAm

04-25-2007, 01:28 PM

If her dabbling happens to include a recurring role on GA, I'm a happy camper.

Well, if the TWW mafia is working itself in place, maybe she will.

I see we get Sydney next week. I like Sydney too, in small doses. And from a distance. Bailey will crush her in the Chief Resident race, but still, Kali Rocha sells the character.

Such as the LVAD wire, which seems to have turned a portion of the fandom irrevocably into "I hate Izzie" territory.

Oh, that. Well, I think a very large part of that is people who want to dislike a character regardless of an actual reason, and the LVAD wire is just an excuse. If it weren't that, it'd be 'what a h0r!' for having a kid and giving her up for adoption. Or she wears too much lipstick. Or that her hair is blond.

I persist in believing that it's just OOC enough to show the depth of his feelings for Izzie, platonic or otherwise.

Well, it's enough for me that it gave George enough gumption to stand up to Bailey, who I believe is the one person there George respects above all others.

Or just Queen of the World. It's a position I once aspired to.

I was going to apply for a similar position, but the paperwork was terrible. ;)

Choosing someone for that level of authority based even partially on who they're dating just seems wrong.

It'd never get said out loud, even though maybe it should. But it's fine by me. Right now, no one at the hospital is saying much about it, which is frankly not realistic, but really, do you want an organization being run by someone who has given his subordinates reason to believe he/she may not be as impartial as he/she ought to be? How would you ever be able to trust your boss to do right by you in a professional dispute between you and your boss' SO?

I figure she'll be winging her way to sunny California before the second commercial break. Maybe even the first.

It's a 2-hour episode though, right? She may last into the second hour.

Oooh, I like that spinoff. Let's merge it with the one where Josh and Sam take on all the evil politicos and it'll be just perfect!

It would be nice to see the old gang again. In it's day, that was one pretty fine series.

...I do believe I've heard that perhaps circumstances may force Thatcher into closer proximity to Meredith.

That's cool; I'm happy that there's an attempt, with all the 'can't make up for lost time' caveats. But I maintain skepticism.

My level of faith in Marti's ability to pull off a show is warring sharply with my desire to keep up with Addison.

I tend to agree, even with a great cast. Shonda looking over her and Krista's shoulder gives me enough hope to at least sample.

ETA: Did you see? We're all grown up (http://www.journalfen.net/community/fandom_wank/1076104.html). AGAIN.

I saw that. I was torn about mentioning it, 'cause it's not so much GA being wanked as it is Nazi English majors, but still, success. Way behind House, but getting there.

Angela

04-26-2007, 12:47 AM

I see we get Sydney next week. I like Sydney too, in small doses. And from a distance. Bailey will crush her in the Chief Resident race, but still, Kali Rocha sells the character.

I guess my semi-avoidance of GA spoilers is working 'cause I had no idea Kali was coming back. I'm pretty sure I'm glad to see her; she usually bring the funny. And yet she's still annoying enough that the idea of watching Bailey chew her up and spit her out amuses also. It's a win/win situation!

If it weren't that, it'd be 'what a h0r!' for having a kid and giving her up for adoption. Or she wears too much lipstick. Or that her hair is blond.

That may explain a large portion of the anti-Izzie contingent, but what about those of us who spent the better part of three seasons wondering why anyone likes Meredith. Or, you know, those of us who refer to the show's heartthrob as McDrippy. For example. ;) My point is that I'm not sure Shonda has a clear handle on when to say when, and I think she loves her characters perhaps a little too much. This is not necessarily a bad thing, mind you, but it may give her a bit of a rose-colored-glasses complex when it comes to assessing the love the audience has for those same characters, and how many times she can have those characters do horrible things without having the audience lose the love.

Well, it's enough for me that it gave George enough gumption to stand up to Bailey, who I believe is the one person there George respects above all others.

His relationship with her is also the clearest and least complicated relationship in his life. For him to be so unyielding is a sign that he's come a long way, methinks.

I was going to apply for a similar position, but the paperwork was terrible. ;)

Have no fear. Should I ever attain it, I'll make sure and cut the paperwork in half, at least.

...do you want an organization being run by someone who has given his subordinates reason to believe he/she may not be as impartial as he/she ought to be? How would you ever be able to trust your boss to do right by you in a professional dispute between you and your boss' SO?

Fair point, that. And one I'll willingly concede. There's a reason that school board members' families aren't allowed to work for a school district. I just wish Webber had couched it in those terms to McDrippy, or at least broached them with Burke. As is, that's not the way it went down. And it's a whole lot less satisfying that way.

It's a 2-hour episode though, right? She may last into the second hour.

I'm not gonna hold my breath on that one. I think there's too much going on in the new show to spend much time with Addison at the old. In fact, I think the biggest thrust of the 2 hours will be in LA, with the GA ep consisting mostly of Cristina and her Crazy Wedding Dress Adventures.

Then again, prereleased promo pictures can be very deceiving. Maybe I'm completely wrong.

It would be nice to see the old gang again. In it's day, that was one pretty fine series.

Made a real resurgence there at the end, too. I think if it hadn't have been for the death of John Spencer, I'd still be mourning that show. As it is, it just wouldn't be the same.

That's cool; I'm happy that there's an attempt, with all the 'can't make up for lost time' caveats. But I maintain skepticism.

I do not think that will be the case, but without revealing any spoilers, I can't specify more.

Then again, with Kristin, it's a crapshoot at best anyway.

I tend to agree, even with a great cast. Shonda looking over her and Krista's shoulder gives me enough hope to at least sample.

I hope you're right, and I plan on doing more than sampling. Until I see a reason not to, I plan on faithful viewing. I really do love Addison, and it's a promising premise. But I'm going to work very hard on not getting too attached to anyone else. I've seen what Marti can do to a character. Or many of them.

I saw that. I was torn about mentioning it, 'cause it's not so much GA being wanked as it is Nazi English majors, but still, success. Way behind House, but getting there.

I thought it was hilarious, but that was mainly because the Nazi English major overused her commas horribly. I have a real thing about commas.

SamIAm

04-27-2007, 09:42 AM

Wait, is that sympathy I feel for Sloan? My world, she is undone!

I'm pretty sure I'm glad to see her; she usually bring the funny.

I was kind of bummed with her last night. Cheery and chippy, sure, but oblivious? C'mon, make Bailey's competition tough. She's way more than up to the challenge.

Or, you know, those of us who refer to the show's heartthrob as McDrippy. For example. ;)

But he is a drip. And it's not that I don't like Derek, I just don't like MerDer. 'Cause before his talk with Webber, Derek's okay with breathing for Meredith, but now he's not? Please. Suddenly Meredith and Sloan seems like a good idea.

I do not think that will be the case, but without revealing any spoilers, I can't specify more.

No, no spoilers needed. I don't like that road. ;)

I hope you're right, and I plan on doing more than sampling.

Well, hopefully I'll be a more-than-sampler viewer too. Maybe Shonda can ride herd better than another guy did.

I have a real thing about commas.

I'm pretty much guilty of overuse of them too, I think. Just one more reason to not care how others choose to write. If you don't like it, read something else.

So here's (http://www.straightdope.com/columns/010907.html) where they got poor Skinner's story line. Apparently it's all true. Just another reason to avoid the Amazon, I'd say.

Okay, so we're done with AlAdd, right? Good. It's hard to even feel bad that Alex just blew her off the way he did. Plus, well, it made me feel bad for Sloan, and that's just wrong.

Speaking of Alex, I don't get why he was running so hot and cold with pretty much everyone all night. Thoughts?

At least, 'just let me have my husband' isn't as bad as 'Pick me. Choose me. Love me.' And, I don't know, what else can Callie do really? Even if I think if she thinks George neither gets or needs her, Izzie's not going to be able to change that much no matter what she does.

George and Izzie... ::sigh:: Kids, kids, kids...

Angela

04-29-2007, 12:41 AM

Wait, is that sympathy I feel for Sloan? My world, she is undone!

That was unexpected, no? Who knew McSteamy had such a sensitive side? I know I didn't. And that was, I think, about as sensitive as I want him to get. They can't have both Alex and McSteamy go through the woobification process. Although Alex...well, we'll get to him later.

C'mon, make Bailey's competition tough. She's way more than up to the challenge.

Was that it? They went to the trouble to bring Sydney back just so she could realize Drippy Nose Guy had a serious problem? Except for that she didn't actually realize that; she was just trying to establish her authority and Drippy Nose Guy's serious problem was a fluke. That was just pointless, IMO.

But he is a drip. And it's not that I don't like Derek, I just don't like MerDer. 'Cause before his talk with Webber, Derek's okay with breathing for Meredith, but now he's not?

This takes me back to the days of old. And not in a good, nostalgia-y kind of way. This reminds me of a guy who's too much of a wuss to make a decision between his wife and the chick he had an affair with, and that's being generous. 'Cause otherwise he's just a guy who wants to have his cake and eat it too.

Yeah, now all of a sudden (when his job's on the line) he's not so okay with Meredith and her neediness? What. Ever.

Suddenly Meredith and Sloan seems like a good idea.

Suddenly I'm trying to think of something worse than McDrippy. Does McSlimy have a bit of a ring to it?

And yeah, Meredith and Sloan had a spark there, too. ;)

Well, hopefully I'll be a more-than-sampler viewer too. Maybe Shonda can ride herd better than another guy did.

If nothing else, I feel like Shonda really does love her characters (as I may have mentioned. *g*). And in almost a fangirl sort of way. I don't expect her to torture her audience just because she can. Nor do I expect she'll let someone else do it. So I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. For now, anyway.

So here's (http://www.straightdope.com/columns/010907.html) where they got poor Skinner's story line. Apparently it's all true. Just another reason to avoid the Amazon, I'd say.

I live on a lake, and I won't even swim here. I have a hard time talking myself into the Gulf of Mexico. I can say with some certainty that, even should I ever find myself near the Amazon, swimming there won't be a problem.

Okay, so we're done with AlAdd, right? Good. It's hard to even feel bad that Alex just blew her off the way he did. Plus, well, it made me feel bad for Sloan, and that's just wrong.

I would say that 'ship has well and truly sunk, and I couldn't be happier about it. For Alex, I'd say that truly was scratching an itch. He wasn't ugly about it, but he wasn't dishonest either. And really, Addison was the one forced the issues...right about the same time she forced Alex into that closet.

Speaking of Alex, I don't get why he was running so hot and cold with pretty much everyone all night. Thoughts?

I don't think he was running hot and cold, exactly. You have to remember Alex isn't used to having feelings, and he's certainly not used to having someone hurt his feelings. Which I suspect Ava did, quite badly, last week. Which is why he was cool with her this week. As far as Addison goes, I think Ava's little joking around about Addison looking for someone to have children with and barbecue may have gone a ways toward scaring him off. When Addison showed up and wanted to take him home with her, I think he just wanted to nip things in the bud before she got attached...and ended up getting really hurt.

At least, 'just let me have my husband' isn't as bad as 'Pick me. Choose me. Love me.' And, I don't know, what else can Callie do really?

I have to admit that I'm starting to lose patience with Callie, and not just because Izzie's my girl. You know, it's not like Callie shouldn't have known this was all coming. I don't believe George had fully dealt with Callie's infidelity with Sloan when his dad was brought into SG, and it was an emotional roller coaster from that point on, concluding (more or less) with George's hurried and not-thought-out proposal to her. Followed shortly thereafter by an even more hurried and not-thought-out elopement. And from this, she thinks she'll have an ideal marriage?

Mind you, I do not hold George blameless. But I do believe he was less capable of making good decisions when this all started then Callie was. I really think the best thing for George would be a time apart from all of them. Time to mature, and time to decide what he really wants.

Even if I think if she thinks George neither gets or needs her, Izzie's not going to be able to change that much no matter what she does.

Fair point, that. I'm really not even sure how much George can change that. Is anyone really capable of making a decision about who they want? Who they need?

George and Izzie... ::sigh:: Kids, kids, kids...

I am so torn about this. In my head, I can't stand that relationship. And deep down, I still really really would like to see Alex and Izzie have a real relationshiop. But TRK and KH can really really sell me on the subtext....and I end up wanting to see them together.

argel

05-01-2007, 11:28 PM

So, because I've been, like 99% unspoiled for all my television for the past couple years, I had no idea until just now that 1) there is a spinoff, and 2) Kate Walsh is leaving to be on it.

Damn. I just wish I hadn't gotten so attached to Addison. I don't want her to leave. And as much as I love Tim Daly, Amy Brenneman, Merrin Dungey, and Taye Diggs, I don't know if I want to try and get into yet another show. So yeah. This sucks.

***argel***

Angela

05-02-2007, 07:17 AM

So yeah. This sucks.

I'm trying to see this as a positive. I have a really hard time committing to new shows, and it's at least partially because I don't want to have to get attached to new people. With this show, there's at least one charcter I'm already attached to. And out of all the people at Seattle Grace, she's the one who lifts the easiest aside from Sloan, and I don't know about him carrying a new show. Plus he's a good foil for Derek. And on a more personal note, this brought about an end to Alex/Addison, which was a huge bonus for me. :)

SamIAm

05-03-2007, 03:10 PM

That was unexpected, no? Who knew McSteamy had such a sensitive side? I know I didn't. And that was, I think, about as sensitive as I want him to get.

Well, his answer to the problem was to try to have revenge sex with Meredith. Counterintuitive, since it'd hurt Derek a lot more than Addison. So I wouldn't worry about him getting too sensitive any time soon.

Except for that she didn't actually realize that; she was just trying to establish her authority and Drippy Nose Guy's serious problem was a fluke. That was just pointless, IMO.

Yeah, I agree. It did nothing for either character except hint that Bailey only wins 'cause she's lucky.

This takes me back to the days of old. And not in a good, nostalgia-y kind of way.

The more I think abou this, the more I want McDrippy to be on the next ferry that has issues. What a jerk. As you say, Shonda is really testing the faithful Mer/Der'ers. Who, I'm sure, remain faithful. But what a jerk.

Yeah, now all of a sudden (when his job's on the line) he's not so okay with Meredith and her neediness? What. Ever.

It's freaking pathetic. He's not man enough to stand up to Richard, so he makes it Meredith's fault. And here I thought Ellis was the worst thing that could happen to Meredith.

Suddenly I'm trying to think of something worse than McDrippy. Does McSlimy have a bit of a ring to it?

McLowerThanTheBacteriaUnderWhaleCrapAtTheBottomOfT heMarianaTrench works. A bit long though, I guess.

And yeah, Meredith and Sloan had a spark there, too. ;)

At this point, it's a step up.

Okay, I'll quit now.

I can say with some certainty that, even should I ever find myself near the Amazon, swimming there won't be a problem.

Interestingly enough, a month or so back, a 70-year old guy just finished swimming the length of the Amazon. I gess he had special clothing to prevent fish intrusion, but he still ended up sicker than a dog from the stuff that's in there. Makes me wonder how people managed to survive in its vicinity. I guess they learned how to boil water real quick.

I would say that 'ship has well and truly sunk, and I couldn't be happier about it.

Preach it.

He wasn't ugly about it, but he wasn't dishonest either.

No, not ugly. But there's being honest, then there's being really honest. Still, as you say, Addison pretty much took liberties, knowing Alex might be Manwhore, Jr, but wasn't interested in Addison that way.

Tangently, Ava is working hard to talk herself into Alex-Land.

I don't think he was running hot and cold, exactly.

I suppose. But he has some pretty mercurial moments.

And from this, she thinks she'll have an ideal marriage?

Thinks, probably not. Hopes a whole lot though. And I'd lose patience with her, but she is even more right than she knows, so... I dunno. I see side A and I see side B, and all I can do is go with the one who's being wronged.

Mind you, I do not hold George blameless.

No. He did act impulsively, and yeah, the best thing Callie could have done was to tell him to ask her again in six months, but now he's in the situation, he's repsonsible for what he's doing.

I really think the best thing for George would be a time apart from all of them. Time to mature, and time to decide what he really wants.

All three of them need some time to decide what they want, I think. George going to Mercy West wouldn't be the worst thing, except for, you know, I don't want him to. :)

Fair point, that. I'm really not even sure how much George can change that. Is anyone really capable of making a decision about who they want? Who they need?

One would hope so. It'd make marriages last longer. ;) At the very least, you do need to come to the realization that what you have is either good enough, or you need to free yourself to continue the search.

But TRK and KH can really really sell me on the subtext....and I end up wanting to see them together.

I just don't want them estranged. The rest, I can take or leave. But stop messing with Callie's head, guys. It ain't right.

So tonight's the big night. Yay, I hope.

Angela

05-04-2007, 08:07 AM

So I wouldn't worry about him getting too sensitive any time soon.

You know, he's actually hard to buy as Mr. Sensitive Guy. Last night he didn't really sell the "pining for Addison" stuff, IMO. Chewing on Alex for retaliation, yeah, but not so much with the Addison stuff.

As you say, Shonda is really testing the faithful Mer/Der'ers. Who, I'm sure, remain faithful. But what a jerk.

You'd be surprised how many of the faithful have already hopped off that particular ferry. Then again, most of the faithful I know are regular TWoPers, and I think their mission in life is to hop off ferries as quickly as possible and immediately find themselves a "bitter" thread. Or, you know, a thread.

It's freaking pathetic. He's not man enough to stand up to Richard, so he makes it Meredith's fault. And here I thought Ellis was the worst thing that could happen to Meredith.

Not this season, apparently. I wonder what kind of effect the combined death/slap of last night will have on her. After his begrudging efforts to reunite, I must also add I expected more from Derek in that moment. Why, I don't know.

McLowerThanTheBacteriaUnderWhaleCrapAtTheBottomOfT heMarianaTrench works. A bit long though, I guess.

But fairly descriptive. Do you suppose McLowerThanCrap would do it? McLTC?

Interestingly enough, a month or so back, a 70-year old guy just finished swimming the length of the Amazon. I gess he had special clothing to prevent fish intrusion

Or he just held it til he got out for bathroom breaks. ;)

but he still ended up sicker than a dog from the stuff that's in there. Makes me wonder how people managed to survive in its vicinity. I guess they learned how to boil water real quick.

Can you build up some sort of natural immunity to that stuff? Like drinking the water in Mexico?

No, not ugly. But there's being honest, then there's being really honest. Still, as you say, Addison pretty much took liberties, knowing Alex might be Manwhore, Jr, but wasn't interested in Addison that way.

Yeah, I think that was a double fault situation. I do think Alex was trying to nip the bud as opposed to just not being interested, and that might have prompted a more blunt level of discourse.

Tangently, Ava is working hard to talk herself into Alex-Land.

You know, I like Ava all right, but she's just a tad bit on the anvillicious side. I think by season's end I will not be sad to see her go.

Thinks, probably not. Hopes a whole lot though. And I'd lose patience with her, but she is even more right than she knows, so... I dunno. I see side A and I see side B, and all I can do is go with the one who's being wronged.

I think I'd like to see it that way, but I was already engaged and invested with George and Izzie (not George/Izzie) before Callie ever showed up, and I've never warmed up to her the way I did them. So I think my sympathy is less widespread than it could be.

No. He did act impulsively, and yeah, the best thing Callie could have done was to tell him to ask her again in six months, but now he's in the situation, he's repsonsible for what he's doing.

Certainly. And it would have been so much better for all involved if he had done the waffling he's currently doing prior to marriage. But even so, I still don't have the same sort of ill will towards him that I had towards McDrippy after Addison showed up. I don't know if that's because of his lack of intent to hurt or his efforts to stay true to his marriage or maybe just because at least in his case we can all see that he's suffering too--something we never saw with McLTC, IMO.

All three of them need some time to decide what they want, I think. George going to Mercy West wouldn't be the worst thing, except for, you know, I don't want him to. :)

Me either!! He can't leave!! Or, I should hope there will be resolution of some kind at least to the point that George won't be forced to leave.

So tonight's the big night. Yay, I hope.

I thought it was pretty good. And I think I'm all for Addison's new show, both because it was fairly good (or, at least, not horrible) and because having her gone clears the way for more screen time for the original cast. Everybody wins!

maverick

05-08-2007, 08:27 AM

It could be because I just cant stand Callie and feel that shes been forced down everyone’s throat but I really like the George/Izzie pairing they are fun together from the dream team humor to the (surprisingly) smoking elevator/closet make out scenes. But its funny I keep getting vibes of Cordelia/Angel in this ship. What with the friends progressing to something deeper and also its less than raptorous reception (atleast at TWOP). It feels just like old times.

SamIAm

05-08-2007, 10:02 AM

Last night he didn't really sell the "pining for Addison" stuff, IMO. Chewing on Alex for retaliation, yeah, but not so much with the Addison stuff.

Oh, I get that Mark finally had one get under his skin. Again, though, in the sensitivity department, he goes and whines about losing Addison to the guy he and Addison cheated on, so, you know...

You'd be surprised how many of the faithful have already hopped off that particular ferry.

Yeah? Wow. 'Shippers are usually a much hardier breed, able to withstand hurricane-force assaults. TWoP Mer/Der'ers should hand in their 'shipping card.

Then again, most of the faithful I know are regular TWoPers, and I think their mission in life is to hop off ferries as quickly as possible and immediately find themselves a "bitter" thread. Or, you know, a thread.

I like TWoP recaps, mostly, but that smug 'more cynical than thou' attitude that permeates some of the forums just bugs to no end.

I wonder what kind of effect the combined death/slap of last night will have on her.

That was something, huh? I had to rewatch that a couple of times to let what Thatcher did sink in. I mean, just wow.

After his begrudging efforts to reunite, I must also add I expected more from Derek in that moment.

Begrudging efforts to avoid letting Meredith know he's just stringing her along is how I saw it. That said, I don't know what Derek could have done there. That had to have taken everyone by surprise, and Meredith told him she didn't want him to follow her. Which at least was Derek honoring her wish, so something anyway.

Do you suppose McLowerThanCrap would do it? McLTC?

I'm just afraid of what that's saying about Meredith, who should have been kicking him in sensitive places, not pleading her case to him. It is he who owes her an apology in this latest fiasco.

Can you build up some sort of natural immunity to that stuff?

I expect so; Darwin would certainly postulate that ability. ;)

You know, I like Ava all right, but she's just a tad bit on the anvillicious side. I think by season's end I will not be sad to see her go.

If she goes. I've heard things... Anyway, I'm interested to see what's up with Ava after seeing the promo.

So I think my sympathy is less widespread than it could be.

Okay, it's just a thing, I guess.

Me either!! He can't leave!! Or, I should hope there will be resolution of some kind at least to the point that George won't be forced to leave.

After what Izzie said about it not being fair that he leaves, I'm wondering if KH and GA'a management have engineered an exit strategy should her movie career take off. Not that it's any more fair that Izzie leave, but realities of life trump TV.

I thought it was pretty good.

Yeah, me too. I didn't love it, but I like the cast, and that counts a lot for me. Kinda concerned that they're too boy-girl-boy-girl. That usually means it's going to be all about the hooking-up and breaking-up; lather, rinse, and repeat. But there was that little Alias reunion there, and it's always a pleasure to see Becky Wahlstrom, even if just as a guest star. I liked that elevator god thing too, but I think I'd prefer my OB-GYN to be just a bit quicker on the uptake. If I needed an OB-GYN, that is.

And I think I'm all for Addison's new show, both because it was fairly good (or, at least, not horrible) and because having her gone clears the way for more screen time for the original cast. Everybody wins!

There is that. More Kate Walsh is good. And she and Tim Daly work well together.